Ellen White on the Sabbath

MoreCoffee · Oct 27, 2012

mmksparbud said:
Why is it that people think that when God speaks, He speaks only to the Jews?---He created us all---He speaks to all. The 7th day was hallowed and sanctified by Him--for what? So he could keep it??--It was not made for the angels or for God, but by God for mankind--Yet you are saying that God does not indicate that Adam and Eve were to keep it--are they not mankind??---What other mankind did God make??---We are supposed to read the bible "here a little, there a little, precept upon precept"--put it together to get the whole picture. To say Adam and Eve or their descendants were not mankind and therefore did not need to keep the sabbath is ludicrous--but God did not make it for Himself, yes He stopped creating but the sabbath was made for mankind, not for Him.

God did speak to Israel exclusively in numerous passages.

The 7th day was sanctified so that Israel would rest and allow their slaves and servants to rest too.

The sabbath was made for man, specifically for Israel. God says so in a number of passages. You know what they are.

Adam and Eve are never said to be 7th day keepers.

The bible is not a puzzle to be pieced together like some kind of jigsaw puzzle. “Here a little and there a little” is not instructions about reading the bible.

When given again as part of the 10 commandments He said remember--after 400 years in Egypt, they may have lost some of it, but they were still keeping the sabbath before the commandments were written, as when the manna was not given on the sabbath, that was before the commandments were given, so it was in place already--mankind does not mean Jews, it means mankind--everybody, men, women, children.

The ten commandments were not “given again” at mount Sinai, they were given there for the first time.

"Mankind" is not what the verse says in Matthew, Mark, or luke.

The Jews were supposed to give all that God said to others, in the wilderness, when the 10 commandments were given, there were Egyptians and others, the mixed multitude--not just Jews. Anyone who chose to believe in God and come out of paganism became a part of the children of Israel. This was to be for everybody. It was the Jews that became exclusive instead of inclusive and stated thinking they were the chosen and therefore better than everybody else, but they were wrong, mankind meant all--it was and is meant for all.

The Israelites were given laws to stop them accepting some foreigners as Israelites for up to ten generations. God did not intend for Israel to be evangelistic in the way that Christians are evangelists.

Christ died for all, not just for the Jews, Christ is Jewish--but salvation is for mankind. Salvation if of the Jews, Christ said--did that mean only Jews were to be saved?--No.

Enoch and Elijah walked with God and never experienced death. One pre-flood and one post flood--they did not have to be the only ones--Enoch was not a Jew--they did not exist yet. Elijah was--both translated. God speaks to everyone, we are all His children.

True enough. What's that got to do with 7th day keeping today?

MoreCoffee · Oct 27, 2012

Elder 111 said:
Not at all. The Sabbath is embedded in the ten commandments it that goes all goes so says James 2. Since when did the bible teach that the Lord's day done away with?

James doesn't mention sabbath keeping. Your are mistaken.

mmksparbud · Oct 27, 2012

MoreCoffee said:
God did speak to Israel exclusively in numerous passages.

The 7th day was sanctified so that Israel would rest and allow their slaves and servants to rest too.

The sabbath was made for man, specifically for Israel. God says so in a number of passages. You know what they are.

Adam and Eve are never said to be 7th day keepers.

The bible is not a puzzle to be pieced together like some kind of jigsaw puzzle. “Here a little and there a little” is not instructions about reading the bible.

The ten commandments were not “given again” at mount Sinai, they were given there for the first time.

"Mankind" is not what the verse says in Matthew, Mark, or luke.

The Israelites were given laws to stop them accepting some foreigners as Israelites for up to ten generations. God did not intend for Israel to be evangelistic in the way that Christians are evangelists.

True enough. What's that got to do with 7th day keeping today?

In passages yes,God spoke to just the Jews, but the Old testament was for all, not just Jews.
the 7th day was sanctified at creation.
The 10 commandments were written by the finger of God at Mt. Sinai--but they were kept before that. Sin is not sin unless you know that what you are doing is wrong. When Cain was angry about his load of produce not being acceptable to God, God said, "Sin lieth at the door."--Cain knew His offering was not what God had asked for, but he wanted things his way, not God's way.
The sabbath was not made for Israel--it was made for man, anyone that would believe in God. Man, mankind, same thing--not just Jews--everyone. It was not made for God, though He did stop creating, it was for us. It is not just Jews that need to stop and rest and spend the day with Him.
"some foreigners" were those that had been against Israel, such as the Moabites--and yet, Ruth was a Moabite and mentioned in the linage of Christ.
The bible is, often, read as a puzzle and needs to be put together--one understands Revelation better when you read Daniel--Many times the bible is speaking about something, but then it changes mid chapter and you know it no longer is talking about the same thing---such as Ezekiel and the discription of Lucifer. You know this, every one does, so let's not play ignorant now.
Enoch, Elijah--salvation is for all, by grace--not just the jews. The sabbath was made for man--Adam, Eve, all their decendants--man--that does include women and children. It is in honor of God's creation. He is God, the creator of all--and all man is to keep it, just as we are not to muder or lie or steal, or commit adultry. He has made a new covenant with us, not through the shedding of animal blood, but through the shedding of Christs blood and we have His laws written in our hearts now--same laws.

Haven't slept--going to bed now--pain keeps me up all hours, I sleep when my body finally allows me to--night, night.

MamaZ · Oct 27, 2012

Since when did the bible teach that the Lord's day done away with?

Fulfilled is the word we say.. Since it has been fulfilled it doesn't need any more workings of it. It has been fulfilled by Christ Himself. Now we stand not in our own righteousness by observing the law but in Christs righteousness for He has fulfilled the law and declares us forgiven and sanctified through not of our own works but of His life and work on the cross.

MamaZ · Oct 27, 2012

The seventh day with Adam and Eve was for God to rest. Not man.

mmksparbud · Oct 27, 2012

MamaZ said:
The seventh day with Adam and Eve was for God to rest. Not man.

God doesn't need to rest, He stopped creating and sanctified the day--Christ said the sabbath was made for man, not man for the sabbath--Adam and Eve were part of that "man."

MamaZ · Oct 27, 2012

mmksparbud said:
God doesn't need to rest, He stopped creating and sanctified the day--Christ said the sabbath was made for man, not man for the sabbath--Adam and Eve were part of that "man."

He rested from all His work.. The command of keeping the day for man was given to Moses. This is where the commandments come from. The letter of the law. Which we are not obligated to if we are in Christ and He is in Us. For He has fulfilled the law nailing it to the cross. Now we have a new and better way. No longer the law but the Spirit of God that dwells in His people and we who believe now rest in Him from doing works of the law.. This is the true sabbath of Christians.. Resting from all our works for by works none are justified. Only through Christ and Him alone is anyone justified.

MoreCoffee · Oct 27, 2012

mmksparbud, see post #593

pshun2404 · Oct 27, 2012

And after you have done all I have commanded you say to yourself, "I am an unworthy servant merely having done my duty" but we are no longer mere servants are we, but now we are the sons and daughters of God...no longer children of the bond woman but the free.

If commandment keeping was the path to salvation then there would have been no need for Christ's shed blood and resurrection, but alas no one was ever saved by commandment keeping were they...In Early Writings pg 65 E White says the 4th commandment is the greatest commandment yet Jesus tells us to love God with all our heart, soul, mind, and strength is the greatest...

Which one is telling the truth and which one is wrong? Hmmm?

Paul

mmksparbud · Oct 27, 2012

pshun2404 said:
And after you have done all I have commanded you say to yourself, "I am an unworthy servant merely having done my duty" but we are no longer mere servants are we, but now we are the sons and daughters of God...no longer children of the bond woman but the free.

If commandment keeping was the path to salvation then there would have been no need for Christ's shed blood and resurrection, but alas no one was ever saved by commandment keeping were they...In Early Writings pg 65 E White says the 4th commandment is the greatest commandment yet Jesus tells us to love God with all our heart, soul, mind, and strength is the greatest...

Which one is telling the truth and which one is wrong? Hmmm?

Paul

Yea gads---how many times must we say that the keeping of the law will not save anyone?????-----Love for God and others is what Christ said--and He also said "On these 2 commandments, hang all the law and the prophets."---All the commandments hang on those 2. And Christ said that the sabbath was made for man, not man for the sabbath--and who made the 4th commandment???---it was Christ, He was the one that created everything and made the sabbath from the very beginning at creation week for man.
He should know!!
The light that shone on the 4th commandment that EGW saw was because that is the one commandment that has been rejected and trampled on the most.
We are sons and daughters of God, always have been--but yes, as Christ came to serve and not be served, so are we to serve others--But we were made as His children, adopted by God, and when we love Him, we automatically do what that love for Him says. The commandments show how we are to love God and others.
Romans 5:14--"Nevertheless, death reigned from Adam to Moses even over them that had not sinned after the similitute of Adam's transgresion who is the figure of him that was to come."----After the similitute of Adam's transgresion--His transgresion was different from all others--He disobeyed God's command to not eat of the fruit of the tree--no other has commited that sin. Adam and Eve had a special commandment, Don't eat the fruit of that one tree.

pshun2404 · Oct 27, 2012

So then you are NOT saying that those practicing worship on the 1st day as the Apostles instructed the Church when He returns will receive the Mark of the Beast? This is what Ellen taught...so maybe I am missing something...

Paul

mmksparbud · Oct 27, 2012

pshun2404 said:
So then you are NOT saying that those practicing worship on the 1st day as the Apostles instructed the Church when He returns will receive the Mark of the Beast? This is what Ellen taught...so maybe I am missing something...

Paul

The apostles gave no such instruction--that is man made tradition.
The mark of the beast will not be incured until it is mandated by law that you receive it or else--it is then that the decision becomes do you follow God or man---hasn't happened yet.

MoreCoffee · Oct 27, 2012

mmksparbud said:
In passages yes,God spoke to just the Jews, but the Old testament was for all, not just Jews.
the 7th day was sanctified at creation.

The 10 commandments were written by the finger of God at Mt. Sinai--but they were kept before that. Sin is not sin unless you know that what you are doing is wrong. When Cain was angry about his load of produce not being acceptable to God, God said, "Sin lieth at the door."--Cain knew His offering was not what God had asked for, but he wanted things his way, not God's way.

The sabbath was not made for Israel--it was made for man, anyone that would believe in God. Man, mankind, same thing--not just Jews--everyone. It was not made for God, though He did stop creating, it was for us. It is not just Jews that need to stop and rest and spend the day with Him.
"some foreigners" were those that had been against Israel, such as the Moabites--and yet, Ruth was a Moabite and mentioned in the linage of Christ.

The bible is, often, read as a puzzle and needs to be put together--one understands Revelation better when you read Daniel--Many times the bible is speaking about something, but then it changes mid chapter and you know it no longer is talking about the same thing---such as Ezekiel and the description of Lucifer. You know this, every one does, so let's not play ignorant now.

Enoch, Elijah--salvation is for all, by grace--not just the jews. The sabbath was made for man--Adam, Eve, all their descendants--man--that does include women and children. It is in honour of God's creation. He is God, the creator of all--and all man is to keep it, just as we are not to murder or lie or steal, or commit adultery. He has made a new covenant with us, not through the shedding of animal blood, but through the shedding of Christ's blood and we have His laws written in our hearts now--same laws.

Haven't slept--going to bed now--pain keeps me up all hours, I sleep when my body finally allows me to--night, night.

God did sanctify the day he rested in Genesis 2:3 where it says “And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.” and the commandment in Exodus 20:11 also says “And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.” But there is no commandment to keep the 7th day until Moses and Israel were at the foot of Mt. Sinai. And the commandments themselves explain that the law is given to Israel in Exodus 20:2 saying “I am the LORD thy God, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage.” Thus the commandments and the law are given to Israel.

Romans 5:12-17 explains that there was no law before Moses and I think that is a very clear indication that 7th day keeping was not a law that anybody was commanded to observe before Moses. The passage says:

Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned: (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law. Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come. But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many. And not as it was by one that sinned, so is the gift: for the judgment was by one to condemnation, but the free gift is of many offences unto justification. For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.) (Romans 5:12-17)

What more need be said. Paul did not think that Cain or Able or Noah or any of the patriarchs kept the 7th day otherwise he would not have said that there was no law until Moses.

God keep you as free from pain as possible, mmksparbud, God bless and grant you peaceful sleep.

bugkiller · Oct 27, 2012

Lysimachus said:
The Original Greek in Mark 2:27 , is mankind MoreCoffee.

You are in error:

#190: The Sabbath is Jewish. Even if this were true, which it isn't, what would it prove? Our Savior is Jewish, and 64 of the 66 books of the Bible are too. If we must reject the Sabbath for such a reason, how can we remain Christians?

If the Sabbath is Jewish, why did Jesus say, "The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath" (Mark 2:27)? He didn't say that the Sabbath was made just for Jews. He said it was made for man.

Of Jesus it is said, "All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made" (John 1:3). Since He's the one who made the Sabbath for man, He ought to know what He's talking about.

Interestingly, the name Adam is also one of the Hebrew words for "man." Thus Jesus in Mark 2:27 is referring to the making of both the Sabbath and Adam in Genesis 2.

More than this, the Greek of Mark 2:27 says that the Sabbath was made for "the man", not "the man" for the Sabbath. Why did Jesus say "the man" instead of just "man"?

In the first eleven chapters of Genesis, the Hebrew word adam occurs 52 times, always in the singular, and is translated "Adam," "man," and "men." In 43 of these 52 times, adam occurs with the definite article "the." In 7 of the remaining 9, from Genesis 4:25 to 5:5, adam is used as a proper noun, and so the definite article is omitted. Only in 1:26 and 2:5 does the word adam appear neither as a proper noun nor with the definite article.

First the Hebrew phrase "the man" means either Adam or both Adam and Eve. Then, beginning with Genesis 6:1-7, the phrase begins to mean not just Adam but his descendants as well, or in other words, all mankind. Therefore, when Jesus said that He made the Sabbath for "the man," He meant that He made it for Adam and all his descendants, since that is precisely what "the man" means. How then can anyone declare the Sabbath to be merely "Jewish"?

Paul uses similar language when talking about the woman: "Neither was the man created for the woman; but the woman for the man" (1 Cor. 11:9). If the Sabbath that was made for the man is really Jewish, then the woman that was made for the man is really Jewish as well. Essentially, that would mean that marriage is only for the Jew, not for the Gentile.

Adam took but two things out of the garden with him: the Sabbath and marriage. Both are under attack today. Even though the Lord blesses and sanctifies but one woman per man on wedding day, there are those who declare it doesn't matter what woman you keep. And though Jesus blessed and sanctified but one day for us, there are those who will say that you can keep any day you want.

OK I had to revisit this post on the argument "the man" in the Greek. My challenge is where else is "the man" mentioned in Scripture? And just who is "the man?"

I came up with I Tim 2:5 - For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

But the Greek only says anthropos Christ Jesus. It does not use the adjective "the." So some would argue that Christ Jesus is just a mere man like the rest of us and does not have a dual nature as in God and man. That would be great for some people's doctrine. However the Scripture clearly states Jesus is God. Remember the argument of John 8:58? The Jews understood this very plainly and sought to kill Jesus for blasphemy. Jesus is called the second Adam (second man). Jesus the man came into being without sin. Jesus' Father was not a man, but God. Jesus is the only begotten man (Son of God - Jn 1 and 3). All others were made by God.

But Jesus says "the man." Who is "the man?" "The" is a specific and exclusive article and not an inclusive article used as an adjective to identify. Most other verses I checked have some other adjective identifying anthropos such as every, no, a, that, this, righteous, etc. Some of these mean to identify a certian but not exclusive man. But the the identifies an exclusive man. Jesus is and was like no other man. Jesus is a supernatural man not having the seed of a man and only the seed of a woman Gen 3:15. This is very abnormal and no one else but Jesus can claim this fact.

So my question is did this slip by the Jews and us? It certianly is miniscule and very common speech. But the eyes (understanding) of the Jews was blinded. Is ours to also blinded? Thinking about it some I can see how the language experts failed us here. Men are dense and hard to be convinced of thing that are contrary to us naturally.

I think that Jesus really said the sabbath was made for Me (God) the God-man and the God-man (Me - Jesus) not made for the sabbath. That would be absolutely true.

Yep ya can argue the literal words all ya want. Is there something about the natural man understanding spiritual things? I say let the spiritual eyes be opened.

I can not say thank you enough for pointing out the Greek says "the" man in MK 2:27.

bugkiller

Dale · Oct 28, 2012

Elder111 in post #544:
"When you and Albert Barnes finish, God did not in any way even hint of Sunday being a religious day of any sort. There is absolutely no tie to Sunday as the Lord's day, NONE.
Is Friday the devil's day because Jesus died on that day? Or victory day because He purged our sins on that day? The only think Jesus instituted in connection with the whole event was the bred and wine, the last supper. NOTHING ELSE!"

Apparently you don't believe what John the Revelator said in Revelation 1:10.
I posted John Gill's commentary and Matthew Henry's commentary on that passage so that you would know what Protestants make of it.

As nearly as I can follow your argument, Christ did not command Sunday worship in the Gospels, and the later testimony of the Apostles apparently doesn't count. Likewise, the practice of the Apostles doesn't count either.

Does it occur to you that everything that passed between Christ and the Apostles after the Resurrection isn't written down? If the Apostles later treated Sunday as the Lord's Day, then Christ authorized it. If the Apostles had been wrong about this, the Holy Spirit would have led them on this subject.

The Bible says that John worshipped on Sunday, the Lord's Day.
If you don't believe the Bible, I can't help you.

*

*

dollarsbill · Oct 28, 2012

Lysimachus said:
We have no right to execute punishment any longer, as the theocratic governmental kingdom was taken away from Israel.

Contradiction! The commandment is for YOU to execute YOUR family.

Deuteronomy 13:9-10 (NASB)
9 "But you shall surely kill him; your hand shall be first against him to put him to death, and afterwards the hand of all the people. 10 "So you shall stone him to death because he has sought to seduce you from the LORD your God who brought you out from the land of Egypt, out of the house of slavery.[/QUOTE]

MoreCoffee · Oct 28, 2012

dollarsbill said:
Contradiction! The commandment is for YOU to execute YOUR family.

Deuteronomy 13:9-10 (NASB)
9 "But you shall surely kill him; your hand shall be first against him to put him to death, and afterwards the hand of all the people. 10 "So you shall stone him to death because he has sought to seduce you from the LORD your God who brought you out from the land of Egypt, out of the house of slavery.

dollarsbill, Lysimachus is taking the same path that the Mormons did with polygamy; when the USA government threatened to send in the troops the Prophet had a revelation rescinding polygamy. The USA government would arrest SDAs who killed family members for sabbath breaking so they have a 'discovered' a biblical reason for not obeying the sabbath laws that Israel had.

I think that all religions take the same approach until they have political power and then they do what they think the bible, the qur'an, or whatever religious rules they have tell them to do.

Elder 111 · Oct 28, 2012

MamaZ said:
Fulfilled is the word we say.. Since it has been fulfilled it doesn't need any more workings of it. It has been fulfilled by Christ Himself. Now we stand not in our own righteousness by observing the law but in Christs righteousness for He has fulfilled the law and declares us forgiven and sanctified through not of our own works but of His life and work on the cross.

So you do admit the Lord's day of Rev. 1 is the Sabbath?

MoreCoffee · Oct 28, 2012

Elder 111 said:
MamaZ said:

Fulfilled is the word we say.. Since it has been fulfilled it doesn't need any more workings of it. It has been fulfilled by Christ Himself. Now we stand not in our own righteousness by observing the law but in Christs righteousness for He has fulfilled the law and declares us forgiven and sanctified through not of our own works but of His life and work on the cross.

Click to expand...

So you do admit the Lord's day of Rev. 1 is the Sabbath?

You have to be kidding! Elder 111. What MamaZ wrote doesn't mention the sabbath. How on earth do you come to the conclusion that she agrees with you?

Elder 111 · Oct 28, 2012

MamaZ said:
The seventh day with Adam and Eve was for God to rest. Not man.

O! He worked so hard that He needed rest? What does Jesus mean when He said that Sabbath was made for man? Do you supersede Jesus? Mark 2:27

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