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Elijah called down fire on his enemies

ViaCrucis

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The truth is always good, though it is often a hard pill to swallow, and some even choke on it. But you said:
ViaCrucis said:
It's never okay to pray for someone's demise. That is contrary to the will of God. When someone is evil, you respond with love and mercy.

David prayed for someone's demise.

And in the Psalms we see at least one Jewish exile write "Blessed are those who dash their children upon the rocks". I don't think it would be wise, however, to extract from this that infanticide is justifiable even if it's the children of our oppressor.

Christ says, pretty explicitly, to love our enemies, to bless those who curse us, to pray for those who persecute us. There's no room in "love your enemy" for "I hope they suffer and die".

-CryptoLutheran
 
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2PhiloVoid

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Of course! But in the final analysis, doing what some consider loving and such is not the point of how we deal with others. But there's no generic "final evaluation" here, but to deal in truth.

Wow! Does this mean you've missed my point altogether since I was offering anything BUT a generic "final evaluation" ? :dontcare:
 
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Mark Quayle

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And in the Psalms we see at least one Jewish exile write "Blessed are those who dash their children upon the rocks". I don't think it would be wise, however, to extract from this that infanticide is justifiable even if it's the children of our oppressor.

Christ says, pretty explicitly, to love our enemies, to bless those who curse us, to pray for those who persecute us. There's no room in "love your enemy" for "I hope they suffer and die".

-CryptoLutheran
I should hope that you, like I, don't like to see falsehood spoken nor represented concerning our Lord, particularly when it is deprecatory, as though he is not after all Lord, not Sovereign, not Pure, not Omnipotent.

Do you think Elijah was wrong to call down the two bears to maul those poor kids?
 
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public hermit

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Elijah called down fire on his enemies. He killed about 150 soldiers. I have prayed for God to kill my enemies. Specifically, I want to see and hear of their funeral. These enemies are purely evil. Demonic. Have committed abominable acts that one can not speak of. This specific enemy purposefully goes around tempting married woman to sin. Has purposely gathered a host against innocent people for his on disgusting glory. He manipulates, lies, is a truce breaker and unmerciful. He does damnable acts to see people cry. He likes to torment people because he feels he’s so powerful. He has abused his power and likes to turn married women into harlots and commit adultery even though he is married. He thinks adultery is ok. He has a family wife and kids. However, that’s not good enough. After women refuse his advances he continues to woo them with lies. I am unsure of how many women he has committed adultery with. He’s disgusting. He tried to turn me into one of his victims. He comes off as a helper of sorts but soon you find he’s is a habitual liar. I am sorry to say but I truly would like to be Elijah and call down fire from heaven to burn him up. Is that wrong? I think not. He has done all types of damnable things for years. He understands it’s wrong but doesn’t care. He wants to see women cry he actually wants to spank abuse women physically to get them to act right and do what he wants them to do. I had this horrible vision of him whooping me. He once yelled several times at me about how much he cares. The rage in his voice was disgusting. He truly disgust me. I almost hate the fact that I once thought of him as a friend or brother. After he insisted on making me a harlot and I refused. I begged him to be my brother he refused. Then he blocked me from being friends with other men. I truly would like to see his death.

Those who say they know God, who they cannot see, but hate another human, who they can see, are liars. Christianity 101
 
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Mark Quayle

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Wow! Does this mean you've missed my point altogether since I was offering anything BUT a generic "final evaluation" ? :dontcare:
No. I got your point, but since you said "final evaluation" I wanted to head off at the pass any suggestion that the less than sweet and kindly disposition in every situation is to be pursued at all costs, such as seems to be the suggestion of some here.
 
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Mark Quayle

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Elijah called down fire on his enemies. He killed about 150 soldiers. I have prayed for God to kill my enemies. Specifically, I want to see and hear of their funeral. These enemies are purely evil. Demonic. Have committed abominable acts that one can not speak of. This specific enemy purposefully goes around tempting married woman to sin. Has purposely gathered a host against innocent people for his on disgusting glory. He manipulates, lies, is a truce breaker and unmerciful. He does damnable acts to see people cry. He likes to torment people because he feels he’s so powerful. He has abused his power and likes to turn married women into harlots and commit adultery even though he is married. He thinks adultery is ok. He has a family wife and kids. However, that’s not good enough. After women refuse his advances he continues to woo them with lies. I am unsure of how many women he has committed adultery with. He’s disgusting. He tried to turn me into one of his victims. He comes off as a helper of sorts but soon you find he’s is a habitual liar. I am sorry to say but I truly would like to be Elijah and call down fire from heaven to burn him up. Is that wrong? I think not. He has done all types of damnable things for years. He understands it’s wrong but doesn’t care. He wants to see women cry he actually wants to spank abuse women physically to get them to act right and do what he wants them to do. I had this horrible vision of him whooping me. He once yelled several times at me about how much he cares. The rage in his voice was disgusting. He truly disgust me. I almost hate the fact that I once thought of him as a friend or brother. After he insisted on making me a harlot and I refused. I begged him to be my brother he refused. Then he blocked me from being friends with other men. I truly would like to see his death.
For what it is worth, there are times I could have done things for the sake of someone I love, for which I would have been in prison the rest of my life, but have told myself, that Vengeance belongs to God. From personal experience I can tell you, that God knows precisely how to do it, too!
 
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Mark Quayle

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Those who say they know God, who they cannot see, but hate another human, who they can see, are liars. Christianity 101
1 John 4:20 If anyone says, "I love God," but hates his brother, he is a liar. For anyone who does not love his brother, whom he has seen, cannot love God, whom he has not seen. Whoever claims to love God yet hates a brother or sister is a liar.

'Brother' could perhaps be transposed to include any human, but that isn't what the Bible says —at least not in that verse.
 
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public hermit

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1 John 4:20 If anyone says, "I love God," but hates his brother, he is a liar. For anyone who does not love his brother, whom he has seen, cannot love God, whom he has not seen. Whoever claims to love God yet hates a brother or sister is a liar.

'Brother' could perhaps be transposed to include any human, but that isn't what the Bible says —at least not in that verse.

Yeah , you could limit is to a chosen few, but I doubt God will be impressed.
 
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Mark Quayle

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2PhiloVoid

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No. I got your point, but since you said "final evaluation" I wanted to head off at the pass any suggestion that the less than sweet and kindly disposition in every situation is to be pursued at all costs, such as seems to be the suggestion of some here.

If you indeed understand my point, then you know that it wasn't about whether or not we are to be "nice" to everyone.
 
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2PhiloVoid

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Of course! But in the final analysis, doing what some consider loving and such is not the point of how we deal with others. But there's no generic "final evaluation" here, but to deal in truth.

You're doing it again, Mark. You're obfuscating. What do you think is my main point in my earlier reference to the "Sons of Thunder"?
 
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2PhiloVoid

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You're doing it again, Mark. You're obfuscating. What do you think is my main point in my earlier reference to the "Sons of Thunder"?

I didn't say that, but even if I had, since you don't seem to be iterating back to me what my point was, it hardly behooves you to push this little bit of hubris that you're pushing now.

My point is this since you're playing this the way you are: Jesus told James and John to 'check' their attitudes, intentions and overall judgments of other people with the attitude, intention and overall judgment of God, the Spirit.

So, in connection with the OP, that's all I'm saying. If this is what you're saying too, then you could have just said, "I agree" without adding in the silly banter about it all.
 
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biblelesson

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Elijah called down fire on his enemies. He killed about 150 soldiers. I have prayed for God to kill my enemies. Specifically, I want to see and hear of their funeral. These enemies are purely evil. Demonic. Have committed abominable acts that one can not speak of. This specific enemy purposefully goes around tempting married woman to sin. Has purposely gathered a host against innocent people for his on disgusting glory. He manipulates, lies, is a truce breaker and unmerciful. He does damnable acts to see people cry. He likes to torment people because he feels he’s so powerful. He has abused his power and likes to turn married women into harlots and commit adultery even though he is married. He thinks adultery is ok. He has a family wife and kids. However, that’s not good enough. After women refuse his advances he continues to woo them with lies. I am unsure of how many women he has committed adultery with. He’s disgusting. He tried to turn me into one of his victims. He comes off as a helper of sorts but soon you find he’s is a habitual liar. I am sorry to say but I truly would like to be Elijah and call down fire from heaven to burn him up. Is that wrong? I think not. He has done all types of damnable things for years. He understands it’s wrong but doesn’t care. He wants to see women cry he actually wants to spank abuse women physically to get them to act right and do what he wants them to do. I had this horrible vision of him whooping me. He once yelled several times at me about how much he cares. The rage in his voice was disgusting. He truly disgust me. I almost hate the fact that I once thought of him as a friend or brother. After he insisted on making me a harlot and I refused. I begged him to be my brother he refused. Then he blocked me from being friends with other men. I truly would like to see his death.

Matthew 5:44-45

44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;

45 That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.

Matthew 6:14-15

14 For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you:

15 But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.

We are under the New Testament, where we are called to walk as sons and daughters of God, the children of our Father in Heaven, expressing his character of forgiveness towards all, because we are to be holy like he is holy, 1 Peter 1:15-17.

The New Testament became of full force when the testator (Jesus) died on the cross, Hebrews 9:16-17.

We are no longer under the Old Testament, which enforced the Mosaic Law. If we live according to the old, we incur a curse. However under the New Testament Christ has redeemed us from the curse of the law, so we don’t live by it anymore.

Galatians 3:10-13,
10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.

11 But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.

12 And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them.

13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:

We can’t justify ourselves or our actions to bring a curse on someone based on how they did it in the Old Testament. They were under the law then.

We are no longer under the law. We are under the New Testament where all men can be forgiven in Christ Jesus. If Christ died to forgive all, including your enemies, then we must forgive also. If we choose not to forgive our enemies who Christ died for, then we are considered to be like them, just as bad as them, where we have an unforgiving heart. An unforgiving heart is against God.



 
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ViaCrucis

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I should hope that you, like I, don't like to see falsehood spoken nor represented concerning our Lord, particularly when it is deprecatory, as though he is not after all Lord, not Sovereign, not Pure, not Omnipotent.

Do you think Elijah was wrong to call down the two bears to maul those poor kids?

I don't think it was wrong for the two she-bears to come and protect Elisha from a mob of 42 young men. It was a mob of 42 teenage boys, and the bears were sent by God to protect him.

Do you believe that it is in keeping with Christ's commandment that we wish harm on our enemy? Which should we observe: An eye for an eye or turning the other cheek? Which should we observe? Hatred of our enemy or loving our enemy? What does Jesus our Lord, God, and King say?

-CryptoLutheran
 
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ViaCrucis

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Did Christ forgive all?

Yes. Unquestionably. The declaration of "not guilty" was sounded from Mt. Calvary to every man, woman, and child that has ever lived and will ever live. Christ made satisfaction for all, the objective work of justification is finished and accomplished for all.

"Therefore, as one trespass led to condemnation for all men, so one act of righteousness leads to justification and life for all men." - Romans 5:18

That's Objective Justification, which is universally for all. That doesn't mean all will be saved, because it is only through faith that we receive that justification and therefore may benefit, that is the righteousness which is by faith--the imputed righteousness of Christ which God gives us through the gift of faith (aka Subjective Justification).

-CryptoLutheran
 
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Mark Quayle

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I don't think it was wrong for the two she-bears to come and protect Elisha from a mob of 42 young men. It was a mob of 42 teenage boys, and the bears were sent by God to protect him.

Do you believe that it is in keeping with Christ's commandment that we wish harm on our enemy? Which should we observe: An eye for an eye or turning the other cheek? Which should we observe? Hatred of our enemy or loving our enemy? What does Jesus our Lord, God, and King say?

-CryptoLutheran
Those are the only two options? Hating or loving our enemy? Why call them 'enemy', after all?

But what our Lord, God and King says is vengeance belongs to him, not to us. THIS is what I look forward to, seeing God's justice upon such people.

But then I consider that the vengeance I deserve was 'absorbed' by Christ; I certainly don't look forward to seeing the vengeance my enemy deserves laid upon Christ, and it is difficult for me to consider, unless God has determined it. There are some people for whom I do not pray for their salvation, though admittedly I deserve God's mercy no more than they do.
 
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Mark Quayle

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Yes. Unquestionably. The declaration of "not guilty" was sounded from Mt. Calvary to every man, woman, and child that has ever lived and will ever live. Christ made satisfaction for all, the objective work of justification is finished and accomplished for all.

"Therefore, as one trespass led to condemnation for all men, so one act of righteousness leads to justification and life for all men." - Romans 5:18

That's Objective Justification, which is universally for all. That doesn't mean all will be saved, because it is only through faith that we receive that justification and therefore may benefit, that is the righteousness which is by faith--the imputed righteousness of Christ which God gives us through the gift of faith (aka Subjective Justification).

-CryptoLutheran
Opinion noted.

BTW, your use of Romans 5:18 is faulty.
 
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biblelesson

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Did Christ forgive all?

Christ died for the sins of the world, which includes all if only the would come.​

1 John 2:2​

And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.


John 3:16​

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Everyone has an opportunity to come to Christ to be forgiven for their sins, but many won’t.

Matthew 22:14​

For many are called, but few are chosen​

Romans 10:13,​

For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.​

Romans 1:16​

For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.​


So we don’t know if those we are angry with, and even if they do us wrong will be saved. They have a chance to repent just like we do.
 
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ViaCrucis

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Opinion noted.

BTW, your use of Romans 5:18 is faulty.

Not my "opinion", it's official Lutheran doctrine, and no it's not. Romans 5:18 says that Christ brought justification to all men, the text means what it says.

Christ died for everyone. He tasted the death of all men (Hebrews 2:9).

-CryptoLutheran
 
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