Election explained and supported through scripture

[Gabriel]

We have debated this point till we were blue in the face. For all those involved in past debates, I ask only this; Read the whole post carefully, considering the information as if you were trying to understand the reformed POV, not necessarily agreeing with it. Have a bible handy and look up the scripture references. This post will be long, but it is very thorough. Please, please do not attempt to argue. I am posting this to give you an understanding of where we are coming from, not to tell you that you are wrong or we are right. God Bless.

Election is the gracious and free act of God by which He calls those who become part of His kingdom and special beneficiaries of His love and blessings. The Bible describes the concept of election in three distinct ways. Election sometimes refers to the choice of Israel and the church as a people for special service and privileges. Election may also refer to the choice of a specific individual to some office or to perform some special service. Still other passages of the Bible refer to the election of individuals to be children of God and heirs of eternal life.
Throughout the history of redemption, election has characterized God’s saving activity. He chose and called Abraham from Ur to Canaan, making an everlasting covenant with him and his offspring (Gen. 11:31–12:7; Neh. 9:7; Is. 41:8). God also called Moses to lead His people out of bondage (Ex. 2:24–3:10; Deut. 6:21–23; Ps. 105). He chose Israel from among the nations of the world to be His special covenant people (Deut. 4:37; 7:6–7; Is. 44:1–2).
Election to salvation takes place “in Christ” (Eph. 1:4; 2:10) as a part of God’s purpose for the human race. As part of His eternal plan, God allows us to use our freedom to rebel against Him. Thus it is gracious of God to save those who find salvation through Jesus Christ. It is not unjust of Him not to save everyone, since no one deserves to be saved (Matt. 20:14; Rom. 1:18; 9:15). Election is gracious; it is also unconditional and unmerited (Acts 13:48; Rom. 9:11; 1 Pet. 1:2). It is an expression of the eternal, sovereign will of God who cannot change (Rom. 8:29; 2 Thess. 2:13). Therefore the salvation of the elect is certain (Rom. 8:28, 33).
Election is a necessary condition for salvation; faith is the sufficient condition. The elect inevitably believe, but they do not believe against their will. They have a God-given desire and ability to trust in Christ for salvation (Acts 13:48; 1 Cor. 15:10; Phil. 1:29; 2:13). The elect choose God because He effectively calls them through the proclamation of the gospel of Jesus Christ; they choose Him because He first chose and called them to Himself (Rom. 8:28). That initiating love of God is reflected in Jesus’ statement, “You did not choose Me, but I chose you” (John 15:16).
A careful study of the Bible’s doctrine of man cures any romantic notion of a human will that is free to choose for or against God. Those who are slaves to sin and its power (Rom. 6:6) neither understand nor seek after God in and of themselves (Rom. 3:11; John 14:17; 1 Cor. 2:14). Outside of Christ, people are spiritually dead rebels who neither desire to submit to the Lord Jesus Christ nor are able to. Apart from God’s gracious, free, eternal, and sovereign choice of sinners to become His children, none would be saved but would remain forever under His wrath (Rom. 1:18).
Election is not to be a source of complacency (2 Pet. 1:12) or presumption (Rom. 11:19–22) on the part of Christians. They are to make their calling and election certain by growing in godliness (2 Pet. 1:2–11) as they respond with gratitude to God’s electing love (Col. 3:12–17).
God has chosen Christians to bear the image and glory of Christ (Rom. 8:29; 2 Thess. 2:14). They have been elected to be holy in conduct, like Christ (Eph. 1:4). Like Him, they are also to be glorified in their whole being in the life to come (2 Cor. 3:18; Phil. 3:21). The ultimate goal of our election is that we might bring praise and glory to God (Eph. 1:6; Rom. 11:33; 2 Thess. 2:13).

 

[Reformationist]

Thanks bro.  Appreciate all the time you put into that.

God bless,

Don

 

[Gabriel]

Originally posted by Reformationist
Thanks bro.  Appreciate all the time you put into that.

God bless,

Don

Thanks but it was a copy/paste job. It was from that software I told you about a while back. Man I wish I could explain it that well......I'd write software.

 

[FluviusNeckar]

Originally posted by Gabriel
We have debated this point till we were blue in the face. A careful study of the Bible’s doctrine of man cures any romantic notion of a human will that is free to choose for or against God. Those who are slaves to sin and its power (Rom. 6:6) neither understand nor seek after God in and of themselves (Rom. 3:11; John 14:17; 1 Cor. 2:14). Outside of Christ, people are spiritually dead rebels who neither desire to submit to the Lord Jesus Christ nor are able to. Apart from God’s gracious, free, eternal, and sovereign choice of sinners to become His children, none would be saved but would remain forever under His wrath (Rom. 1:18).
Election is not to be a source of complacency (2 Pet. 1:12) or presumption (Rom. 11:19–22) on the part of Christians. They are to make their calling and election certain by growing in godliness (2 Pet. 1:2–11) as they respond with gratitude to God’s electing love (Col. 3:12–17).

 

Now here's a marvel---one needs a "careful study" and a degree in theology to understand Calvin but Peter on Pentecost told the first Christians what to do to be saved in a few minutes.

Now let's see, which version sounds like it is of God?  Hmmm?

Jesus was a friend of sinners not theologians.

 

[Gabriel]

Originally posted by FluviusNeckar
 

Now here's a marvel---one needs a "careful study" and a degree in theology to understand Calvin but Peter on Pentecost told the first Christians what to do to be saved in a few minutes.

Now let's see, which version sounds like it is of God?  Hmmm?

Jesus was a friend of sinners not theologians.

Nice attitude. I can tell that you will be a productive member of this board.

 

[sierraf]

Originally posted by Gabriel
Those who are slaves to sin and its power (Rom. 6:6) neither understand nor seek after God in and of themselves .

 

Hmmm.... according to this statement, what am I to do with Jesus' statements in Matt. 7-29 and Luke 11:9-10?

An interesting web page can be found on this subject at http://www.bible-infonet.org/ff/articles/denominations/112_01_05.htm

 

[Gabriel]

Originally posted by sierraf
 

Hmmm.... according to this statement, what am I to do with Jesus' statements in Matt. 7-29 and Luke 11:9-10?

An interesting web page can be found on this subject at http://www.bible-infonet.org/ff/articles/denominations/112_01_05.htm

I didn't post this to start a debate. We are often asked why we believe this doctrine. So I posted this as a way of explanation of the reformed POV. The two of you seem pretty smart, yet you don't seem to be able to read or perhaps comprehend:

Please, please do not attempt to argue. I am posting this to give you an understanding of where we are coming from, not to tell you that you are wrong or we are right. God Bless.

I am pretty sure that you did not do as I requested and read the whole post thoughtfully while referring to scripture. So why do you answer against it?

Now here's a marvel---one needs a "careful study" and a degree in theology to understand Calvin but Peter on Pentecost told the first Christians what to do to be saved in a few minutes.

Now let's see, which version sounds like it is of God? Hmmm?

Jesus was a friend of sinners not theologians.

Show me where I said you had to be a theologian to be saved? I never said that. If it is your desire to dumb down christianity, have a ball. If in depth study and knowledge offends you so, what are the words of your pastor to you? Or the author of any books concerning spiritual matters.

I'm sorry if I got too deep for you. I'll try to keep things easy:

Jesus died for sinners, those who believe and receive Him will have eternal life. He predestined those whom He will save before the foundations of the world. if you are one of them, be thankful and praise God!

 

[Reformationist]

Originally posted by Gabriel
I'm sorry if I got too deep for you. I'll try to keep things easy:

Jesus died for sinners, those who believe and receive Him will have eternal life. He predestined those whom He will save before the foundations of the world. if you are one of them, be thankful and praise God!

Thanks again Gabe.  Remember, this view is difficult for many people to grasp.  It goes against what they are taught in their man-centered churches.  It also goes against what all of us naturally look to to solve problems, our own efforts.  Be wise and trust that God will bring about His Will.  His Will may not be for them to understand this doctrine as you do, at least not right now.  His Will is for your sanctification though.  Be blessed and understand that the Lord is teaching you and I how to relate to those who do not share our views in a godly way.  Just continue to share the Truth and trust in Him.

God bless

 

[FluviusNeckar]

Originally posted by Gabriel
Show me where I said you had to be a theologian to be saved? I never said that. If it is your desire to dumb down christianity, have a ball. If in depth study and knowledge offends you so, what are the words of your pastor to you? Or the author of any books concerning spiritual matters.

I'm sorry if I got too deep for you. I'll try to keep things easy:

Jesus died for sinners, those who believe and receive Him will have eternal life. He predestined those whom He will save before the foundations of the world. if you are one of them, be thankful and praise God!

Your "careful study" of salvation exceeds what Peter said we had to do to be saved. You require a degree in theology to understand Calvinist theology. Peter simply required those on Pentecost who believed to repent, and be baptised. No mention of irrestistable election. Why did Peter leave that part out?

I wish you would keep things simple. Your fanciful theology worked for intellectual sophistry but Jesus just wasn't so fancy.

 

[Blindfaith]

I'd just like to pop in here and ask that all post with humillity.  Not just one particular poster, but all.

Consider this pro-active moderating, to keep this from going off the deep-end. 

Thanks.

 

[FluviusNeckar]

Originally posted by Reformationist
Remember, this view is difficult for many people to grasp.  It goes against what they are taught in their man-centered churches.&nbsp

Those are some comforting illusions to nurse against other Christians.

BTW How would you describe a theology named after John Calvin? A Christ-centered theology?

 

[FluviusNeckar]

Originally posted by Gabriel
Nice attitude. I can tell that you will be a productive member of this board.

You probably need to talk to the man born blind whom Jesus healed whose response to the Pharisees is the model for this response.

 

[Reformationist]

Originally posted by FluviusNeckar
Those are some comforting illusions to nurse against other Christians.

Are you referring to your own church's views?  Are they man-centered?  If not, I'm not referring to you.  If, however, you do attend a man-centered church, you know, the whole "free will," not believing in the depravity of mankind, man's inherant goodness, man's ability to overcome his fallen nature and "come to Christ on his own," salvation being a result of making a conscious decision to cast off the old and put on the righteousness of Christ, well, then I am talking about your beliefs. 

BTW How would you describe a theology named after John Calvin? A Christ-centered theology?

Don't know.  If you're referring to Calvinism then I would just describe it as the Truth about God.  Calvinism is completely Christ centered.  If you don't know that then you don't know anything about what the man espoused.  If you did know that you wouldn't be making this kind of statement.  Maybe you should find out what you put down before you put it down.

God bless

 

[FluviusNeckar]

Originally posted by Reformationist
Are you referring to your own church's views?  Are they man-centered?  If not, I'm not referring to you.  If, however, you do attend a man-centered church, you know, the whole "free will," not believing in the depravity of mankind, man's inherant goodness, man's ability to overcome his fallen nature and "come to Christ on his own," salvation being a result of making a conscious decision to cast off the old and put on the righteousness of Christ, well, then I am talking about your beliefs. 



Don't know.  If you're referring to Calvinism then I would just describe it as the Truth about God.  Calvinism is completely Christ centered.  If you don't know that then you don't know anything about what the man espoused.  If you did know that you wouldn't be making this kind of statement.  Maybe you should find out what you put down before you put it down.

God bless

I rest my case! I could not have more eloquently exposed the internal inconsistencies of Calvinism without your invaluable help.

 

[Reformationist]

Originally posted by FluviusNeckar
I rest my case! I could not have more eloquently exposed the internal inconsistencies of Calvinism without your invaluable help.

Okay dude.  Keep thinking you are wise in your own ways.  That seems to lift you up.

 

[FluviusNeckar]

Originally posted by Reformationist
Okay dude.  Keep thinking you are wise in your own ways.  That seems to lift you up.

I believe your comment qualifies as an ad hominem attack. It's called flaming here.

 

[Blindfaith]

[mod hat on]

And this thread is done for now.  I'll leave it up to the Sr. Mod's to determine whether or not it should be re-opened.  Maybe a 24 hour cooling off period only is required

In the future, I'd like to remind all to keep an eye on exactly what it is you'd like to say, and how it may come across.  It is difficult on the Internet, but all the same, there are many here who are keeping an eye on what Christians say and do.


[mod hat off}