Election based on Foreknowledge?

[DeaconDean]

Before I get jumped on, understand that I did not say this.

I don’t care what anyone thinks, writes, says, or whatever, Election is according to foreknowledge...ACCORDING To Foreknowledge. Election is purely and totally founded on Foreknowledge...The logical answer is “God foreknew all who would call upon Him for salvation”...And because God foreknew He Elected them in Christ...Romans 8 teaches us that God knows in advance what everyone will decide. God knew in advance the hearts of Esau and Jacob. God made the statement on that basis. All Electron and Condemnation statement are made on that basis, the basis of Foreknowledge in advance of what every individual will think, do and act on.

If I am reading this correctly, what this person is preaching/teaching, is that God looked foreward in time and seen that I (and you also) would accept and believe. Therefore my(our) election in Him is based on this.

I believe this to be wrong.

If a person accepts this line of thought, wouldn't that make God a respecter of persons? That would be like God saying:

God: "I see that this individual will accept my Son and believe the Gospel, therefore I'm going to make him one of mine. However, this individual will not accept my Son, and will not believe the Gospel, therefore this one will placed among the reprobate."

Is it me, or is this totally wrong?

Thoughts?

God Bless

Till all are one.

 

[JonF]

Most Calvinist don’t believe that election is based on foreknowledge.

 

[DeaconDean]

Most Calvinist don’t believe that election is based on foreknowledge.

I agree and realize that. But what this person is saying is election is based on God's foreknowledge, if I'm reading this correctly. And if it is based on God's foreknowledge, wouldn't more or less make God a respecter of persons? I imagine God respecting this one because He knows they will believe, and not respecting this one because they will not believe.

The only reason I bring this up is because I read an article written by Arthur W. Pink which disputes this entitled: "The Foreknowledge of God."

http://www.pbministries.org/books/pink/Attributes/attrib_04.htm

God Bless

Till all are one.

 

[cygnusx1]

Before I get jumped on, understand that I did not say this.



If I am reading this correctly, what this person is preaching/teaching, is that God looked foreward in time and seen that I (and you also) would accept and believe. Therefore my(our) election in Him is based on this.

I believe this to be wrong.

If a person accepts this line of thought, wouldn't that make God a respecter of persons? That would be like God saying:

God: "I see that this individual will accept my Son and believe the Gospel, therefore I'm going to make him one of mine. However, this individual will not accept my Son, and will not believe the Gospel, therefore this one will placed among the reprobate."

Is it me, or is this totally wrong?

Thoughts?

God Bless

Till all are one.

this poses a unforseen problem for the Arminian.

Is a person chosen because of forseen faith ?

Or is it chosen because of forseen ONGOING faith ?

you see most Arminians believe that a person can be saved and then lost , so it first needs to be established did God (in their view) choose a person based on a faith that would last a week a Month a year ......

or does God only choose those who He forsees will persevere ?


given their answer is God chooses to Elect those who are saved for a Month , a Week , a Year , the obvious question would be why ?

why , would God Elect someone who He knows will not make it to the end ?


Why would a skilled craftsman choose materials that have no value , that will not do the job , that will crumble and fall?

 

[DeaconDean]

I agree with you. The person who said this hasn't exactly said they were armininan but their theology certainly smacks of it. Especially the amonut of stock this individual places on mans "free-will."

One last question, given the statement above, election based on foreseen faith, does this not make God a respecter of persons?

God Bless

Till all are one.

P.S. Thank you all for your answers.

 

[cygnusx1]

I agree with you. The person who said this hasn't exactly said they were armininan but their theology certainly smacks of it. Especially the amonut of stock this individual places on mans "free-will."

One last question, given the statement above, election based on foreseen faith, does this not make God a respecter of persons?

God Bless

Till all are one.

P.S. Thank you all for your answers.

as soon as faith is seen as anything more than a gift , and an instrument , the doors for "respecter of persons " fly open!

and should God elect upon a view to their temporary faith then what good the admonishment to " make our calling and Election sure " ?

the other view , is the most promominent by Historic Arminians and that is God choice is based upon faith along with perseverance , ie, God chooses those and only those who will have persevering faith , but then a bigger problem transpires , and that is that this view permits many to be saved who are not even CHOSEN!

 

[GrinningDwarf]

One last question, given the statement above, election based on foreseen faith, does this not make God a respecter of persons?

It certainly does.

And when he says

Romans 8 teaches us that God knows in advance what everyone will decide. God knew in advance the hearts of Esau and Jacob.

that plays havoc with verse 16

It does not, therefore, depend on man's desire or effort, but on God's mercy.

 

[edie19]

Since I think you only need a 1 word answer - yes.


edie

 

[GrinningDwarf]

Since I think you only need a 1 word answer - yes.


edie

Sorry, edie. That reply is unacceptable on a Reformed forum. One thing I've noticed since I 'got Reformed'...verbosity is a mandatory Reformed trait!

 

[edie19]

Sorry, edie. That reply is unacceptable on a Reformed forum. One thing I've noticed since I 'got Reformed'...verbosity is a mandatory Reformed trait!

well, I'm hanging my head now, obviously I'm slacking - will try and do better next time.

edie

 

[DeaconDean]

I just want to take the time to thank each one of you for your answers.

God Bless each one of you.

Till all are one.

 

[lmnop9876]

yes, election is according to the foreknowledge of God the Father.
yes, we are predestined to eternal life because we are foreknown of God.
yes, I can say this and still call myself Reformed.

it all depends what we mean by foreknowledge.
e.g. Reformed foreknowledge: a mother can know before her baby is born that it will be beautiful (at least to her), because she loves it and wants it to live.
God knew before time that we would be saved, because He loved us and chose to give us life.

or, free-will foreknowledge: a mother can love her baby and decide to keep it because she sees the ultrasound and sees that her baby is beautiful.
God can love us and decide to save us because He looks at us and sees that we will do what it takes to be saved.

 

[Calvinist Dark Lord]

Before I get jumped on, understand that I did not say this.

Fair enough.

If I am reading this correctly, what this person is preaching/teaching, is that God looked foreward in time and seen that I (and you also) would accept and believe. Therefore my(our) election in Him is based on this.

I believe this to be wrong.

i believe you to be correct on that conclusion.

If a person accepts this line of thought, wouldn't that make God a respecter of persons? That would be like God saying:

God: "I see that this individual will accept my Son and believe the Gospel, therefore I'm going to make him one of mine. However, this individual will not accept my Son, and will not believe the Gospel, therefore this one will placed among the reprobate."

Is it me, or is this totally wrong?

It's not you. If you've noticed, the reasoning of such a doctrine makes the Salvation of God dependent on the supposed free will choice of the individual. Well and good, but it does not take into account the fact that the individual hates God by nature, and would never in his/her sinful state freely choose God.

Thoughts?

What is God's foreknowledge based upon, and how is foreknowledge defined?