Elders

[Pilgrim and stranger]

Should we have elders? I do not believe so. Christ appointed 14 Apostles, who appointed elders...the Apostles are now dead hence elders are impossible to have.

 

[armothe]

Should we have elders? I do not believe so. Christ appointed 14 Apostles, who appointed elders...the Apostles are now dead hence elders are impossible to have.

The issue comes down to leadership. If everybody in the local congregation took turns stepping up to the plate and organizing, leading, communicating and teaching we wouldn't have such a problem. However, we are a lazy bunch, always looking for someone else to take the responsibility. Those who desire to lead are then approved by those who do not want to lead. It's really our own fault/s.

-A

 

[reformedfan]

Elders are in heaven in the NT.

 

[billwald]

The Apostles also appointed bishops who appointed pastors. We should all be Quakers? (Soc of Friends)?

 

[ps139]

Should we have elders? I do not believe so. Christ appointed 14 Apostles, who appointed elders...the Apostles are now dead hence elders are impossible to have.

Do you really think that they were a one-time only deal? What would the purpose of that be? And do you realize the chaos that would exist without leadership in the church?

In 1 Timothy, Paul writes to Timothy (a bishop, or overseer) instructing him on the proper selection and ordinations of priests/elders and deacons. Specifically chapter 3. Also 2 Tim 2:2.

Scripture here clearly states that apostolic succession does not end with the death of those whom the apostles appointed, as here Paul is giving instructions to one he ordained (Timothy) about how to find successors. Also, the apostles set the example for the early church. And they certainly never said NOT to keep ordaining clergymen, they encouraged it. Scripture is quite clear on this.

 

[Pilgrim and stranger]

The Apostles also appointed bishops who appointed pastors. We should all be Quakers? (Soc of Friends)?

You have lost me

 

[Pilgrim and stranger]

And do you realize the chaos that would exist without leadership in the church?

The Holy Ghost leads...and God is a God of order

 

[icxn]

The Holy Ghost leads...and God is a God of order

When Christ Himself spoke to Paul and called him, He could have opened his eyes at once and made known to him the way of perfection; instead He sent him to Ananias and told him to learn from him the way of truth, saying: 'Arise and go into the city, and there you will be told what you must do' (Acts 9:6). In this manner He teaches us to be guided by those who are advanced on the way, so that the vision rightly given to Paul should not be wrongly interpreted; otherwise it might lead later generations presumptuously to suppose that each individual must be initiated into truth directly by God, as Paul was, and not by the fathers. - St. John Cassian

See, it is easier and wiser to quote and follow those who have completed the race succesfully.

The ways of fools are right in their own eyes; but a wise man hearkens to counsels. (Prov. 12:15)

icxn

 

[Pilgrim and stranger]

When Christ Himself spoke to Paul and called him, He could have opened his eyes at once and made known to him the way of perfection; instead He sent him to Ananias and told him to learn from him the way of truth, saying: 'Arise and go into the city, and there you will be told what you must do' (Acts 9:6). In this manner He teaches us to be guided by those who are advanced on the way, so that the vision rightly given to Paul should not be wrongly interpreted; otherwise it might lead later generations presumptuously to suppose that each individual must be initiated into truth directly by God, as Paul was, and not by the fathers. - St. John Cassian

See, it is easier and wiser to quote and follow those who have completed the race succesfully.

icxn

We are a priesthood of all believers not a special set of educated clergy...find that for me in the Holy Bible.

 

[ps139]

The Holy Ghost leads...and God is a God of order

And you see how effective that approach is.

"The Holy Spirit tells me I'm right!"
"No, I'm right, the Spirit said so!"
"Fine, I;'m starting my own church!"

and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, and on....................
until we even have Trinitarian heresies taught in some churches today, and total disregard for morals clearly spelled out in Scripture, all because the Holy Spirit supposedly led each person to the truth.

The Holy Spirit does lead to the truth, but not everyone who thinks the Holy Spirit has led them is correct. So how do we tell? We need a teaching authority, it is that simple. Otherwise there is doctrinal and moral chaos and further division within the Body of Christ.

 

[Wigglesworth]

We are a priesthood of all believers not a special set of educated clergy...find that for me in the Holy Bible.

How 'bout this:

For this cause left I thee in Crete, that thou shouldest set in order the things that are wanting, and ordain elders in every city, as I had appointed thee: If any be blameless, the husband of one wife, having faithful children not accused of riot or unruly. For a bishop must be blameless, as the steward of God; not self willed, not soon angry, not given to wine, no striker, not given to filthy lucre; But a lover of hospitality, a lover of good men, sober, just, holy, temperate; Holding fast the faithful word as he hath been taught, that he may be able by sound doctrine both to exhort and to convince the gainsayers. For there are many unruly and vain talkers and deceivers, specially they of the circumcision: Whose mouths must be stopped, who subvert whole houses, teaching things which they ought not, for filthy lucre's sake.

Titus 1:5-11.