Education

[jereth]

My BA is also in literature. Not a background for assessing science--which is why I rely on scientists to do that--but a great background for assessing texts such as scripture.

Again I say: The top people at AiG and other prominent creationist writers don't hold theology degrees either. As far as anyone can tell, they are as ignorant of theology/biblical studies/literature/history/culture as they are scientifically naive.

And yet, absolute certainty that they are the ones who can correctly understand a 3000 year old religious text, while the theologians and biblical scholars have it all wrong.

It's staggering that this can be lost on the mass of YECists.

 

[Dannager]

I think that poll rather speaks for itself.

 

[Dannager]

Actually the level of education among YECs is quite high 80% have a degree, it's just that their degrees aren't in the sciences.

So? TEs' level of education on this board is far higher - with over 93% being college educated and the majority in possession of science degrees.

 

[Driver]

So? TEs' level of education on this board is far higher - with over 93% being college educated and the majority in possession of science degrees.

I noticed that most on this board who are TEs are in their 20's or younger? Don't the younger tend to be more inclined to be TEs, since it is the doctrine taught to them exclusively in public schools.

It's interesting that the SAT scores are getting progressively lower and lower for entrance into colleges and universities.

 

[Dannager]

I noticed that most on this board who are TEs are in their 20's or younger? Don't the younger tend to be more inclined to be TEs, since it is the doctrine taught to them exclusively in public schools.

Exclusively in public schools? I attended a private high school. I was taught that evolutionary theory was the best theory we have, just like public schools instruct. The claim you make above is patently false. And why would the younger be inclined to be TEs? Weren't our parents educated in public schools too? Your argument here doesn't make a whole lot of sense.

It's interesting that the SAT scores are getting progressively lower and lower for entrance into colleges and universities.

All the more reason it is discouraging that there is such a disparity between the number of TEs that attend college and the number of creationists who do the same. What must the creationists' SAT scores have looked like for them to not be admitted?

I also have a feeling that, on average, SAT scores on this board are higher for TEs than YECs.

 

[Driver]

Is opposition to evolution or opposing viewpoints allowed in public schools? Was it allowed at your private school?

It is estimated that today's bacherlor's degree is about the equivalent of an eighth-grade education of 50 years ago.

see
http://deliberatedumbingdown.com/

 

[gluadys]

I noticed that most on this board who are TEs are in their 20's or younger? Don't the younger tend to be more inclined to be TEs, since it is the doctrine taught to them exclusively in public schools.

It's interesting that the SAT scores are getting progressively lower and lower for entrance into colleges and universities.

Well, I had a Canadian education. I don't know that SAT figures apply to non-US systems.

 

[shernren]

I noticed that most on this board who are TEs are in their 20's or younger? Don't the younger tend to be more inclined to be TEs, since it is the doctrine taught to them exclusively in public schools.

It's interesting that the SAT scores are getting progressively lower and lower for entrance into colleges and universities.

Here in Malaysia, the official Biology syllabus at high school level doesn't even whisper anything about where anything came from. All we study is the current function of biological structures. No mention of how they could have evolved, or even any concept of evolution at all. When it comes to evolution I'm completely self-educated, most of it having been learned in the past year.

So nope, my brain has not been washed with "evolutionist doctrine", and if you're implying that brainwashing is the only way people ever accept evolution, I think what you're implying is wrong.

 

[chaoschristian]

I noticed that most on this board who are TEs are in their 20's or younger? Don't the younger tend to be more inclined to be TEs, since it is the doctrine taught to them exclusively in public schools.

Is this a corollary to that old chestnut: if you're young and not liberal you have no heart, and if you're old and not conservative you have no brain?

Are most of the TEs twentysomethings?

 

[Melethiel]

Is opposition to evolution or opposing viewpoints allowed in public schools? Was it allowed at your private school?

It is estimated that today's bacherlor's degree is about the equivalent of an eighth-grade education of 50 years ago.

see
http://deliberatedumbingdown.com/

That's an urban legend. For one, we are learning stuff in high school now that 100 years ago they wouldn't even have DREAMED about. For another, my grandparents have seen the things that I study, and they say it's definitely not 8th grade stuff.

 

[random_guy]

Is opposition to evolution or opposing viewpoints allowed in public schools? Was it allowed at your private school?

It is estimated that today's bacherlor's degree is about the equivalent of an eighth-grade education of 50 years ago.

see
http://deliberatedumbingdown.com/

Yeah, right. I'm sure lots of 8th graders 50 years ago was doing finite state analysis, bifurcation diagrams, and programming genetic algorithms like I did for my BS. Is it me, or does it seem that YECists are more likely to look down on having higher education?

 

[Mallon]

I noticed that most on this board who are TEs are in their 20's or younger? Don't the younger tend to be more inclined to be TEs, since it is the doctrine taught to them exclusively in public schools.

(I suppose you could look at it like that. To me, the more obvious conclusion is that older generations, being less educated than younger ones [most grandparents have a grade 8 education], are the "brainwashed" ones, having been exposed to fewer alternatives in their lifetimes.)
Like gluadys, I have a Canadian education. Here in Canada, as in Malaysia, there is no teaching of evolution in the public high schools. The closest we get is outdated Linnean classification, which creationists heartily support given it's pre-cladistic utilization.

It's interesting that the SAT scores are getting progressively lower and lower for entrance into colleges and universities.

Being Canadian, I can't speak to that.

It is estimated that today's bacherlor's degree is about the equivalent of an eighth-grade education of 50 years ago.

I can send you my Bachelor's thesis on sexual dimorphism in Chasmosaurus and let you judge for yourself, if you'd like.

 

[Assyrian]

So? TEs' level of education on this board is far higher - with over 93% being college educated and the majority in possession of science degrees.

No that is not quite right. TEs have not got a higher level of education, there are more of them with a degree. But 75% of YECs here have degrees too and for all we know they are as good a degrees as the TE ones, they are just not in science.

There is higher percentage of people without degrees participating on the YEC side, 25% as opposed to 7%, but the vast majority on both sides have degrees.

Let's give credit where it is due Dannager. There is a clear disparity is the area of science, but the two sides are quite close in terms of general education.

 

[Redneck Crow]

Is this a corollary to that old chestnut: if you're young and not liberal you have no heart, and if you're old and not conservative you have no brain?

Are most of the TEs twentysomethings?

Not all. I'm 50.

 

[Willtor]

Is opposition to evolution or opposing viewpoints allowed in public schools? Was it allowed at your private school?

It is estimated that today's bacherlor's degree is about the equivalent of an eighth-grade education of 50 years ago.

see
http://deliberatedumbingdown.com/

I'm going to echo random_guy, here. Much of the stuff I did after my freshman year at RPI wasn't known 50 years ago. This is especially true of language theory (which I've gone on to do in grad school) and algorithms. 50 years ago, much of the math we took for granted hadn't been discovered and explored, yet. One of my courses, "The Math of Computer Vision, Computer Graphics, and Robotics," primarily relied on theorems that had been proven within the last 10-20 years.

I don't think that 8th graders, typically, are prepared to engage in some of these things, mentally. My mom teaches 8th grade science at a small private school and she does cool things with the kids, but there are limits to what they can do at their stage of development.

 

[random_guy]

I'm going to echo random_guy, here. Much of the stuff I did after my freshman year at RPI wasn't known 50 years ago. This is especially true of language theory (which I've gone on to do in grad school) and algorithms. 50 years ago, much of the math we took for granted hadn't been discovered and explored, yet. One of my courses, "The Math of Computer Vision, Computer Graphics, and Robotics," primarily relied on theorems that had been proven within the last 10-20 years.

I don't think that 8th graders, typically, are prepared to engage in some of these things, mentally. My mom teaches 8th grade science at a small private school and she does cool things with the kids, but there are limits to what they can do at their stage of development.

If anything, I think he has it reversed, or he's talking about schooling from a non-accreditted college. Every major I can think off (including communications ) has advanced significantly in the past 50 years. My question is, does Driver has a college education? If so, does he only have the equivalent knowledge of an 8th grader in the 1950's? If so, I'm sorry, but you choose a bad college.

 

[Robert the Pilegrim]

I noticed that most on this board who are TEs are in their 20's or younger?

You might want to look at my age.

It's interesting that the SAT scores are getting progressively lower and lower for entrance into colleges and universities.

Or maybe not.
http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0883611.html

An increase in Math scores in the last 10 years or so, no huge differences since the late 1970s.

If you go back further you have to look at demographics ...

from http://www.huppi.com/kangaroo/L-sat.htm

In 1972, minorities formed 13 percent of all SAT takers. In 1992, that number more than doubled to 29 percent. Unfortunately, minorities tend to score lower than the advantaged white students, and including them among the nation's test-takers has resulted in an average drop in SAT scores.

This does not mean, however, that minorities and lower class whites have not been making progress over the last several decades. They have. Between 1976 and 1992, black scores rose from 686 to 797. Mexican-origin scores rose from 781 to 797. Puerto Rican scores rose from 765 to 772. The average white SAT score declined slightly, due to the inclusion of more lower class whites. Of the entire 17-year old white population, those taking the SAT rose from 19 to 25 percent, a less elite group.​

 

[Robert the Pilegrim]

I think that poll rather speaks for itself.

I think the fact that you think the poll means anything speaks for itself.

Now, if you want to discuss a real poll...

According to Gallup support for evolution starts at 41% for those without any college education, and goes up to 66% for those with education beyond a BS/BA. (These numbers were from around 2000, with little change since 1982).

 

[Robert the Pilegrim]

Exclusively in public schools? I attended a private high school. I was taught that evolutionary theory was the best theory we have,

I think his point was that evolutionary theory is taught to the exclusion of other theories

 

[Mallon]

I think his point was that evolutionary theory is taught to the exclusion of other theories

What other theories? There are no other scientific theories out there that account for life's diversity.