Eden was not a Garden

[Halbhh]

There are very few words, yet many books could be written. For example, Harvard University has over 200,000 books that talk about what we read in Genesis chapter one. John 21:25 "Jesus also did many other things. If they were all written down, I suppose the whole world could not contain the books that would be written."

So true -- we are only told some things: the most crucial things -- everything we need to know for our salvation.

I often recommend (it comes to mind here) the wonderful Isaiah chapter 55, and not only because of the very helpful way it tells us we only know some things about God and not all, but for even better things: the wonderful messages in it.

 

[Halbhh]

But yes, it is worth pointing out that even the earlier forms of 'humans' (related earlier species, such as homo habilis) are only ~ 3 million years or less ago:

"The earliest documented representative of the genus Homo is Homo habilis, which evolved around 2.8 million years ago, and is arguably the earliest species for which there is positive evidence of the use of stone tools."

Human evolution - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Staff Edit 3/27/2023
@Diamond7

Still, the broader question of how large Eden was, where, and so on -- really it seems entirely/solely a theological type question in my own view -- is interesting to discuss, even while it's going to have to include a lot of speculation probably. It really doesn't belong here in the physical sciences, but sure, there could be aspects of interest about ancient regions on Earth, for those that think the Garden of Eden was literally a literal place on Earth, instead of something like another dimension/place that was timeless and so on.

 

[Diamond72]

It really doesn't belong here in the physical sciences

Eden in the Bible is where Ancient Mesopotamia was. We have a description in the Bible where four rivers flowed out of Eden. Two of the were the Tigris and Euphrates. We are told the Garden was in Eastern Eden which would be on the Euphrates river. They did not cross over to the other side.

Science has a LOT to tell us about Eden and our Bible. Right now there is a lot of underwater archeology going on in the Persian Gulf. Clearly, these are cities before Noah's flood. They would build on flood plain, so it is really no surprise that they would flood. The Bible tells us that Noah warned them for 120 years that there was going to be a flood but they did not believe him.

 

[Diamond72]

really it seems entirely/solely a theological type question in my own view

The physical size of Eden had nothing to do with theology. It has everything to do with the chapter in our Biology book that talks about a Biodiverse Ecosystem. Also, there are PhD's in Botney that teach at the universities in Jerusalem that are experts on the ancient wild plants in the Middle East and how they became cultivated. The main difference between wild and cultivated is how the seeds are distributed. If that is done by man or nature. Plants produce seeds when they are mature.

 

[AV1611VET]

The Bible tells us that Noah warned them for 120 years that there was going to be a flood but they did not believe him.

Perhaps they, like science does today, thought it was merely going to be a local one?

 

[Diamond72]

I doubt there are 200,000 actual different books on Gen 1,

Did you ever read Genesis Chapter one? I have a book right here called: "The Songs of Trees". Genesis talks about the tree of life, the fig tree, the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. But JUST use the word TREE. There are likely thousands of books that have been written about trees, including guidebooks, field guides, scientific texts, and literary works.

Let's look at the very first verse in the Bible. 1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. Just the word beginning has hundreds of thousands of books written. The beginning of the universe, the beginning of time, the beginning of the earth, the beginning of mankind, the beginning of so many things. Just the word beginning would take 200,000 books and then you would just be getting started. How many books are there that just talk about the beginning of Physics?

There are many books on the beginning of physics, including its historical development and the scientific discoveries that contributed to its growth as a field. Here are a few examples:

1. "The Beginning of Infinity: Explanations That Transform the World" by David Deutsch - This book explores the history of physics and its philosophical implications.
2. "The First Three Minutes" by Steven Weinberg - This book discusses the early universe and the Big Bang, and how they relate to the development of physics.
3. "The Birth of Particle Physics" by Laurie M. Brown - This book covers the history of particle physics from the early 1900s to the 1950s.
4. "The First War of Physics: The Secret History of the Atom Bomb, 1939-1949" by Jim Baggott - This book tells the story of the race to build the atomic bomb and the scientific discoveries that made it possible.

These are just a few examples, and there are many more books on the subject depending on the specific aspects of the beginning of physics that you're interested in.

Do you realize that every letter in the Hebrew alphabet has a numeric value? IF you understand math, you would know it is impossible for a man alone to write the Bible.

https://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/5541252/jewish/Everything-You-Need-to-Know-About-Gematria.htm

 

[Diamond72]

Perhaps they, like science does today, thought it was merely going to be a local one?

Adam & Noah's world was Eden and we know all of Eden was flooded. Most likely still under water today.

Moses was from Egypt. He was well educated. Just like Abraham was well educated in the city of UR.

 

[Diamond72]

In trying to understand the flow of time here, you have to remember that the entire Six Days is described in 31 sentences. The Six Days of Genesis, which have given people so many headaches are confined to 31 sentences! At MIT, in the Hayden library, we had about 50,000 books that deal with the development of the universe: cosmology, chemistry, thermodynamics, paleontology, archaeology, the high-energy physics of creation. Up the river at Harvard, at the Weidner library, they probably have 200,000 books on these same topics. The Bible gives us 31 sentences. Don't expect that by a simple reading of those sentences, you'll know every detail that is held within the text. It's obvious that we have to dig deeper to get the information out.

Gerald Schroeder - Articles - Age of the Universe

 

[AV1611VET]

Adam & Noah's world was Eden and we know all of Eden was flooded. Most likely still under water today.

What did the Ark come to rest on then?

 

[Halbhh]

What did the Ark come to rest on then?

Funny! If someone could find the Ark though it would cause a serious theological problem, in that God wants *Faith from us, *not* relying on evidence to believe.

 

[Diamond72]

What did the Ark come to rest on then?

Mount Ararat. That may be why they think the Black Sea was involved in Noah's flood.

 

[public hermit]

Genesis 2:8 And the LORD God planted a garden in Eden, in the east, where He placed the man He had formed.

To often we hear about the Garden OF Eden. But the Bible says that the Garden was IN Eden, in the east. So there was more to Eden than just the Garden that God gave to Adam and Eve to dwell or live in and tend. Could be all of ancient Mesopotamia was Eden. The land between the rivers. As some like to say about the size of New Jersey today.

Could be it was a metaphor within a metaphor. I can't say if the Garden State is a metaphor. I mean, is New Jersey a garden?

 

[sjastro]

Could be it was a metaphor within a metaphor. I can't say if the Garden State is a metaphor. I mean, is New Jersey a garden?

No it isn't the state of Victoria is a garden and we have the archeological evidence to prove it.

The evidence.

 

[Diamond72]

I mean, is New Jersey a garde

New Jersey seems to be about the size of Eden. Or ancient Mesopotamia. To give you an idea, the earliest civilization in Mesopotamia, Sumer, emerged around 4000 BCE and covered an area of about 15,000 square miles in southern Mesopotamia. New Jersey has an area of approximately 8,722 square miles. So Eden could have been bigger than New Jersey today. I am sure there are gardens in NJ, like there was a garden in Eden.

 

[sjastro]

Because we have science to explain trees to us. That is why we need science to understand our Bible. For example as I said before the show drawings of Adam and Eve covered with fig leaves. But we know that sowing needles goes back 40,000 years and they made clothing the same way we make clothing today. Their clothing was not warm enough to move north so God showed them how to use animal skins to stay warm. After they had sinned of course. History and Science helps us to understand the Bible.

But the quote goes back to Gerald Schroeder with a Phd in Physics from MIT. If you want to understand then go to the source of what I am talking about.

In trying to understand the flow of time here, you have to remember that the entire Six Days is described in 31 sentences. The Six Days of Genesis, which have given people so many headaches, are confined to 31 sentences! At MIT, in the Hayden library, we had about 50,000 books that deal with the development of the universe: cosmology, chemistry, thermodynamics, paleontology, archaeology, the high-energy physics of creation. Up the river at Harvard, at the Weidner library, they probably have 100,000 books on these same topics. The Bible gives us 31 sentences. Don’t expect that by a simple reading of those sentences, you’ll know every detail that is held within the text. It’s obvious that we have to dig deeper to get the information out.

The Age of the Universe | Gerald Schroeder

You (or chatbot) seem to have conveniently forgotten Schroeder was thoroughly debunked in this thread.

 

[AV1611VET]

Funny! If someone could find the Ark though it would cause a serious theological problem, in that God wants *Faith from us, *not* relying on evidence to believe.

Unless it was dismantled to make Noah's homestead.

 

[AV1611VET]

Mount Ararat.

Then Eden isn't still underwater, is it?

 

[Diamond72]

Unless it was dismantled to make Noah's homestead.

I would think they would take it apart to build something else out of it. When they tore down the temple in Jerusalem they used the material to help build the coliseum. Where they had the blood sports.

 

[AV1611VET]

I would think they would take it apart to build something else out of it.

Ya -- Noah's homestead.

 

[Diamond72]

Then Eden isn't still underwater, is it?

Genesis 2:10
And a river went out of Eden to water the garden;
and from thence it was parted and became into four heads.

The four rivers of Paradise are the Euphrates, the Tigris, the Gihon and the Pishon. They are first listed in Gen 2:10–14. They are conceived as flowing from the Garden of Eden towards the four corners of the earth in the four directions of the compass.