Ecumenism

[Tomm]

Tomc
I am also disturbed by some of this new ecumenicism
but as others have shown in this thread
this was a trend well before VII

You are not alone.
It worries many traditional Catholics as well.

 

[mark46]

How many popes must teach us the importance of ecumenism until we understand its importance? How many have to explain its meaning to us before we listen? EO and RCC have been meeting for decades, with great progress. The right lung and the left lung WILL be reunited, not matter how much some laity don't like it (both EO and Catholic).

 

[Rhamiel]

I would like reunification of the Church
I think you miss the purpose of my thread

 

[MKJ]

I would like reunification of the Church
I think you miss the purpose of my thread

No, I think he has a point.

Look at it this way - in all the years of being hard-core about other Christian bodies, how much progress was actually made in coming to some kind of resolution with those bodies?

 

[Tomm]

How many popes must teach us the importance of ecumenism until we understand its importance? How many have to explain its meaning to us before we listen? EO and RCC have been meeting for decades, with great progress. The right lung and the left lung WILL be reunited, not matter how much some laity don't like it (both EO and Catholic).

A group of pilgrims were traveling from Paris to Lourdes in a horse carriage. In the
middle of the journey, the chauffeur died and was replaced by someone else who
just know how to get to Torino and only wanted to get to Torino.

Should those pilgrims pretend everything is ok,pretend the carriage is going to
Lourdes and continue with the journey ???

Ecumenism has changed , it is no longer conforming to traditional teachings.
Nowadays ecumenism means establishing a supermarket of religions, which would see all religions as equal. No more condemnation of heresies and heretics.

 

[Tomm]

(duplicated)

 

[BBCath]

Ecumenism has changed , it is no longer conforming to traditional teachings.
Nowadays ecumenism means establishing a supermarket of religions, which would see all religions as equal. No more condemnation of heresies and heretics.

Can you expand on this a little bit? What do you mean by "establishing" a supermarket of religions?

 

[Michie]

Can you expand on this a little bit? What do you mean by "establishing" a supermarket of religions?

I equate it to Church shopping. Looking for what fits you. Not looking for something that will change us.

 

[QuantaCura]

Again, the goal of ecumenism is not a vague "being together" like some are implying (which I have already provided copious citations disproving).

The end goal is unity in the Catholic faith in the Catholic Church. The union achieved through Anglicanorum Coetibus is an example of the true intended consequence of Catholic ecumenism. This was explained by then head of the CDF Cardinal Levada:

Union with the Catholic Church is the goal of ecumenism, yet the very process of moving towards union works a change in Churches and ecclesial communities that engage one another in dialogue, and actual instances of entering into communion, do indeed transform the Catholic Church by way of enrichment. Let me add right away that when I say enrichment, I am referring not to any addition of essential elements of sanctification and truth to the Catholic Church—Christ has endowed her with all the essential elements. I am referring to the addition of modes of expression of these essential elements, modes which enhance everyone’s appreciation of the inexhaustible treasures bestowed on the Church by her Divine Founder. The “new reality” of visible unity among Christians should not be thought of as the coming together of disparate elements that previously had not existed in any one community: the Second Vatican Council clearly teaches that all the elements of sanctification and truth which Christ bestowed on the Church are found in the Catholic Church.[4] What is new, then, is not the acquisition of something essential that had hitherto been absent. Instead, what is new is that perennial truths and elements of holiness already to be found in the Catholic Church are given new focus or a different stress by the way they are lived by various groups of the faithful who are called by Christ to come together in perfect communion with one another, enjoying the bonds of creed, code, cult and charity in diverse ways that blend harmoniously.

“Union with the Catholic Church is the goal of ecumenism” — Cardinal Levada’s official text | Salt + Light Blog

 

[mark46]

You are free to your own attitudes toward ecumenism. The last several popes and the Church have stated their view though the discussions with Lutherans and with the Orthodox.

A group of pilgrims were traveling from Paris to Lourdes in a horse carriage. In the
middle of the journey, the chauffeur died and was replaced by someone else who
just know how to get to Torino and only wanted to get to Torino.

Should those pilgrims pretend everything is ok,pretend the carriage is going to
Lourdes and continue with the journey ???

Ecumenism has changed , it is no longer conforming to traditional teachings.
Nowadays ecumenism means establishing a supermarket of religions, which would see all religions as equal. No more condemnation of heresies and heretics.

 

[benedictaoo]

well from Unam Sanctam untill the early 1900's (and latter)
it was generally understood that there was no salvation outside the Church
now those words are twisted up so much that they have lost almost all meaning

I am not a Feeneyist
Feeney did not even believe in Salvation by desire, or hope of Salvation for those who were ignorant of the Gospels

but the idea that those who willingly reject the Church are outside the Church... seems like common sense.

Its not that the Church has changed that stance, its that Protestants have changed their level of culpability and now that Western civilization has become secular, we are all becoming less culpable.

If we clearly did not know because we no longer can hear the whole truth and nothing but the truth, then how can we choose it willingly?

Invincible ignorance. (Ignorance through no fault of yours) . Only God knows, no one here, no pope, no priest, no nun, no one on the internet, none of Michie's articles... NO ONE can judge a person to know what any person was/is capable of knowing.

If you know Christ is it and you reject that. Then there will be no salvation outside of that. Christ is who will save a devout Muslim but when the time comes for that Muslim to become fully knowing of Christ and he then, knowing who He is, rejects Him anyway, then he will not be saved, because there is no other salvation other then Christ.

Same with a Prot. They become fully knowing of the Church and still reject it, then what's left for them? You go where you want to go... if they can not accept the truth of the Church they will walk away willingly.

 

[MKJ]

Its not that the Church has changed that stance, its that Protestants have changed their level of culpability and now that Western civilization has become secular, we are all becoming less culpable.

If we clearly did not know because we no longer can hear the whole truth and nothing but the truth, then how can we choose it willingly?

Invincible ignorance. (Ignorance through no fault of yours) . Only God knows, no one here, no pope, no priest, no nun, no one on the internet, none of Michie's articles... NO ONE can judge a person to know what any person was/is capable of knowing.

If you know Christ is it and you reject that. Then there will be no salvation outside of that. Christ is who will save a devout Muslim but when the time comes for that Muslim to become fully knowing of Christ and he then, knowing who He is, rejects Him anyway, then he will not be saved, because there is no other salvation other then Christ.

Same with a Prot. They become fully knowing of the Church and still reject it, then what's left for them? You go where you want to go... if they can not accept the truth of the Church they will walk away willingly.

I think that something else it helps to remember is that even when we are in a position to have good information and the time to ponder it, none of us has complete information.

When I was a student I studies in a classical philosophy department that was particularly interested in the continuity of Christian teaching. Many of the profs were patristics scholars, or were at least very conversant with Christian philosophy in the early period and how that fit in with the later period, and were all competent historians.

Well, there were a couple of Catholics, a couple of Anglicans, a Calvinist, a sort of Marxist, and today there are Orthodox and Jewish department members. They include a few priests and lay leaders in their religious communities.

And they are pretty much all nice, honest people who believe that living Truth is important.

So what can you conclude from this - these are all people that are much more educated on the history of the Church than the average joe, and they have come to a variety of different conclusions about what is true.

Maybe figuring out what is true is not so easy as one might think.