Ecumenism?

[Virgil the Roman]

Do Conservative or Confessional Lutherans support ecumenism? I do not know. I do know that typically, one often associates "ecumenism" with Liberal groups such as the ELCA or Protestants of the generally more Liberal variety.









(Nota Bene: Kindly refrain from commentary regarding the Roman Catholic Church, or your disagreement therewith, please.)

 

[MarkRohfrietsch]

Do Conservative or Confessional Lutherans support ecumenism? I do not know. I do know that typically, one often associates "ecumenism" with Liberal groups such as the ELCA or Protestants of the generally more Liberal variety.
(Nota Bene: Kindly refrain from commentary regarding the Roman Catholic Church, or your disagreement therewith, please.)

Virgil,

I will speak only for LCC. Our approach and outlook regarding ecumenism is, I believe, much the same as that of the RCC. We, like the RCC practice closed communion for exactly the same reasons that you do. Altar and Pulpit fellowship is, however, extended to other Lutheran Synods with whom we are in full doctrinal agreement; some examples would be LCMS, SELK in Germany, and a whole bunch more throughout the world.

Certainly dialogue and Christian fellowship with members of other denominations, such as we have here at CF, is encouraged!

 

[Virgil the Roman]

Danke Schoen.

 

[KEPLER]

Virgil,

I will speak only for LCC. Our approach and outlook regarding ecumenism is, I believe, much the same as that of the RCC. We, like the RCC practice closed communion for exactly the same reasons that you do. Altar and Pulpit fellowship is, however, extended to other Lutheran Synods with whom we are in full doctrinal agreement; some examples would be LCMS, SELK in Germany, and a whole bunch more throughout the world.

Certainly dialogue and Christian fellowship with members of other denominations, such as we have here at CF, is encouraged!

Adding a bit to what Mark has said, dialogue and Christian fellowship is accomplished easier with some groups than others. I can usually hang with you RCs, since ya'll will usually talk over a pint of beer. No dice with them Baptists, though.

 

[MarkRohfrietsch]

Adding a bit to what Mark has said, dialogue and Christian fellowship is accomplished easier with some groups than others. I can usually hang with you RCs, since ya'll will usually talk over a pint of beer. No dice with them Baptists, though.

Some Baptists!

I grew up in a farming comunity made up predominantly of Confessional Lutherans and Irish Catholics. There were some Presbyterians and Methodists and a few Anglicans as well. Most of the Presbyterians and Methodists when I was young were members of the Orange Lodge; which condemned the RCC for many of the same beliefs held by us Lutherans; the real presence, confession and absolution, and baptism as a means of grace. Many of the reformed protestants and Anglicans were Masons as well.

At that time there were no parochial schools, so we all grew up together.

We used to hunt on Saturdays with the one Priest, because most of his Irish parishioners did not hunt!

No wonder that we Lutherans and Catholics hung out!

We also liked (still do) our beer and whiskey way better than the Methodists did!

 

[DaRev]

If you mean "ecuminism" as in joint worship, absolutely not.

 

[Virgil the Roman]

I should hope not.
-Virgil the Roman
Resident Trad. Cath. of C.F.

 

[henrikhankhagnell]

Virgil,

I will speak only for LCC. Our approach and outlook regarding ecumenism is, I believe, much the same as that of the RCC. We, like the RCC practice closed communion for exactly the same reasons that you do. Altar and Pulpit fellowship is, however, extended to other Lutheran Synods with whom we are in full doctrinal agreement; some examples would be LCMS, SELK in Germany, and a whole bunch more throughout the world.

Certainly dialogue and Christian fellowship with members of other denominations, such as we have here at CF, is encouraged!

LCC they are not lutheran! they call themselve catholic though not in union with the pope.

 

[QuiltAngel]

LCC = Lutheran Church-Canada

This is the LCC that Mark is referring to.

 

[MarkRohfrietsch]

LCC they are not lutheran! they call themselve catholic though not in union with the pope.

LCC = Lutheran Church-Canada

This is the LCC that Mark is referring to.

Yup, that's us... catholic, but not RC; orthodox, but not EO; evangelical, but not reformed protestant. That sums up Confessional Lutherans.

 

[Studeclunker]

Virgil, if this is what you are talking about:

Ecumenism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

...then no, WELS would label it Unionism and have nothing to do with it. The whole Ecumenalism movement seems doomed (praise God) as the Liberal churches which have promoted it are moving off in areas that are absolutely unacceptable to the conservative, more orthodox religions.

However, there seems to be a possiblility of yours and the Eastern Orthodox churches coming to an agreement sometime in the future.

 

[Virgil the Roman]

.

 

[Virgil the Roman]

Virgil, if this is what you are talking about:

Ecumenism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

...then no, WELS would label it Unionism and have nothing to do with it. The whole Ecumenalism movement seems doomed (praise God) as the Liberal churches which have promoted it are moving off in areas that are absolutely unacceptable to the conservative, more orthodox religions.

However, there seems to be a possiblility of yours and the Eastern Orthodox churches coming to an agreement sometime in the future.

I surmised as much.

 

[Studeclunker]

Virgil, I don't understand your point in post #12?

By the by, I love your quote from O'Connor!

 

[Till]

Virgil,
We, like the RCC practice closed communion for exactly the same reasons that you do.

For the same reasons! Are you sure?

 

[MarkRohfrietsch]

For the same reasons! Are you sure?

So it would seem; we have the Biblical cautions and admonitions regarding receiving in a worthy manner (not saying that they would not, but not wanting to lead others into sin either). Then there is the issue that if one receives in an other denomination, one is showing doctrinal agreement by participating. I don't think that one can deny the validity of the Eucharist in some particular denominations, but since there are still unresolved doctrinal issues, we should not receive Christ's body and blood in their Churches, nor they in ours.

 

[Studeclunker]

Hmmm... Here is where I have issues with close/closed communion. Where one is in agreement about the elements, is properly prepared, and the words of institution are properly said, there should be no problem. Would someone please point out where it specifically says (in the Bible) we must be in agreement in all things to share communion in the one Christ? Even Luther said that an evil man can say the words of institution and the Sacrament is still valid. Thus, I find that this close/closed communion issue has been used to foster dis-union where it wasn't intended in the sacrament of Communion. This seems to have gone from a policy of love and concern and expanded to one of control.

For instance; I would never commune at a Roman Catholic Church as they believe in Transubstantiation. Nor would I do so at an E*CA church as they are deeply in error, even though they believe the same. However, I for the life of me, can't understand why WELS and LCMS can't share each other's altars as they believe, teach, and practice EXACTLY the same when it comes to the sacrament of the altar, even taking in consideration the consistant inconsistancies of the LCMS.

Close, closed, call it whatever you like, I don't like the policy when it is screwed down this tight. When there are differences between denominations as to what Communion is exactly, and what happens, certainly, there should be an exclusion of other denominations. Due caution should be exercised. However, as closed/close communion is currently practiced, I believe it is being taken way too far.

 

[DaRev]

Hmmm... Here is where I have issues with close/closed communion. Where one is in agreement about the elements, is properly prepared, and the words of institution are properly said, there should be no problem. Would someone please point out where it specifically says (in the Bible) we must be in agreement in all things to share communion in the one Christ? Even Luther said that an evil man can say the words of institution and the Sacrament is still valid. Thus, I find that this close/closed communion issue has been used to foster dis-union where it wasn't intended in the sacrament of Communion. This seems to have gone from a policy of love and concern and expanded to one of control.

For instance; I would never commune at a Roman Catholic Church as they believe in Transubstantiation. Nor would I do so at an E*CA church as they are deeply in error, even though they believe the same. However, I for the life of me, can't understand why WELS and LCMS can't share each other's altars as they believe, teach, and practice EXACTLY the same when it comes to the sacrament of the altar, even taking in consideration the consistant inconsistancies of the LCMS.

Close, closed, call it whatever you like, I don't like the policy when it is screwed down this tight. When there are differences between denominations as to what Communion is exactly, and what happens, certainly, there should be an exclusion of other denominations. Due caution should be exercised. However, as closed/close communion is currently practiced, I believe it is being taken way too far.

Aside from the assurance of belief in the Real Presence and self preparation, receiving the Lord's Supper is a public proclamation of one's agreement with the Confession of the church. You may be in agreement with the Real Presence and be prepapred but there may be other teachings of that church that you are not in agreement with. The reason you gave for not communing with the ELCA is exactly this point. They officially teach the same as the WELS and LCMS as to what the elements are, the very body and blood of Christ, yet you won't commune with them because of other issues.

Biblically, this is based on Acts 2:42-44 and 1 Corinthians 10:16-17.

 

[Joshua G.]

LCC they are not lutheran! they call themselve catholic though not in union with the pope.

As a former Lutheran, I can say that that is a pretty Lutheran thing to say. I knew several LCMSers who said the same.

 

[henrikhankhagnell]

As a former Lutheran, I can say that that is a pretty Lutheran thing to say. I knew several LCMSers who said the same.

i was thinking of Liberal Catholic Church.
but we need to understand that modern lutheran churches are not very into the lutheran teachings. gunnar rosendal is a very good example of real lutheranism. he was very catholic in his thinking. Gunnar Rosendal - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia