Ecumenism

[Michelina]

Mmm, this thread is getting ugly.
Trying to lead others away from our Faith's teachings and the valid Council of Vatican II. I'm not liking this, it sounds schismatic. Some may not like the way that Priests and lesser Bishops have implemented these teachings, but to imply that the Magisterium now is false in some way..ugh, I don't want to even say it.

Excellent, EG!!! You hit the nail on the head.

 

[Epiphanygirl]

You must spread some

Reputation around before
giving it to nyj again.
​

I gave him some for ya Michelina!

 

[Michelina]

Can't imagine I have anything else to add to this thread. After all my quoting of Pope Piu XI it is nice to know no one publicly disagreed with him.

Why would anyone disagree with his teaching on Indifferentism?

That being said I wish someone would show me the connection bewteen his writing and the Vatican II position on Ecumenism.

Vat II promoted Ecumenism among the Laity. Something that theretofore had been sporadic and ill-defined. The Holy See has always practised Ecumenism with many different parties but it was thought (and I think rightly) that in earlier times, ecumenism for the laity might be dangerous and confusing. The times, however, had changed and Vat II responded to that historical reality, in the spirit of John 17.

Ultimately, my only concern is that ecumenism never equal a diluted Catholicism. But I fear that is what some want. Not here at OBOB of course.

Ecumenism doesn't 'dilute' Catholicism. It manifests the Church's mandate and mission.

 

[Rising_Suns]

After all my quoting of Pope Piu XI it is nice to know no one publicly disagreed with him. That being said I wish someone would show me the connection bewteen his writing and the Vatican II position on ecumenism.

There is not much of a connection. Pope Pius XI's statements where for a different era, under different circumstances. Today, the Church is making some changes, and we should accept them; we as Catholics should value the Pope and Magesterium of today, more so than outdated encyclicals that ultra-traditionalists tend to opt for.

 

[Alexis OCA]

Mmm, this thread is getting ugly.
Trying to lead others away from our Faith's teachings and the valid Council of Vatican II. I'm not liking this, it sounds schismatic. Some may not like the way that Priests and lesser Bishops have implemented these teachings, but to imply that the Magisterium now is false in some way..ugh, I don't want to even say it.

Where or when did that take place in this discussion??? Those are very serious and scandalous charges.

I worry when faithful opposition that takes place in the form of discussion and not public dissent is seen as schismatic. Why bother having this forum at all at that point? Why is it necessary to couch criticism of those you disagree with with terms like heresiarch and schismatic? Holy Mother Church has not said that the concept of ecumenism is not be discussed, or refined. I thought that's what we were doing here. To question the orthodoxy of anyone who participated in this thread is just disgusting and self-righteous. And I apologize if I have come across that way to any of my Roman Catholic brothers and sisters here.

Warm regards.

 

[Epiphanygirl]

Can't imagine I have anything else to add to this thread. After all my quoting of Pope Piu XI it is nice to know no one publicly disagreed with him. That being said I wish someone would show me the connection bewteen his writing and the Vatican II position on ecumenism.
.

Would you mind answering me this?
Up to what Pope and his teachings do you follow? Did the Church stop functioning at a certain time as to where they could teach no more and expound further on Catholic Dogma? Do you reject Vatican II and our Pope, as well as our current Magisteruim?

 

[Alexis OCA]

There is not much of a connection. Pope Pius XI's statements where for a different era, under different circumstances. Today, the Church is making some changes, and we should accept them; we as Catholics should value the Pope and Magesterium of today, more so than outdated encyclicals that ultra-traditionalists tend to opt for.

Although I cannot agree with you on some points, thank you for your explanation.

 

[Alexis OCA]

Deleted by me.

 

[Alexis OCA]

Would you mind answering me this?
Up to what Pope and his teachings do you follow? Did the Church stop functioning at a certain time as to where they could teach no more and expound further on Catholic Dogma? Do you reject Vatican II and our Pope, as well as our current Magisteruim?

How dare you!

See my prior post (#145).

 

[Epiphanygirl]

I read your posts, thats why I asked the question!

 

[Alexis OCA]

I read your posts, thats why I asked the question!

Reading and understanding are two different things. See post 145.

 

[Benedicta00]

Yeah we're all much better off with all this ecumenism floating around.

We would all be much better off with out the abuses, not ecumenism in of itself.

What I interpret the spirit of V2 to be is perspective in the 20 century, in light of the fact that in the last, not even 500 years the face of Christendom has forever changed with the reformation and those who reformed the reformers.

 

[Epiphanygirl]

So I'm not gonna get my question answered then! Okay by me.

 

[Benedicta00]

Great point, Aaron. Luther appealed to the SS as the criterion against which he judged the Magisterium, or "apparent Magisterium" as someone called it. Heresiarchs always appeal to a 'static' understanding of Tradition in order to justify their desire not to be docile and obedient to the Holy See, thus arrogating to themselves an authority they do not have (but which they claim to be theirs by virtue of their promotion of their own uninformed static misunderstanding of the living Magisterium).

May God have mercy on them.

Everybody’s an expert.

 

[MichaelFJF]

This thread makes me embarassed to be Catholic. I can see now why some Catholics look elsewhere for the religious experience they need. M

 

[Alexis OCA]

So I'm not gonna get my question answered then! Okay by me.

Oh I'm sorry, did you have a serious question or do you just want to bait some more?

 

[Alexis OCA]

We would all be much better off with out the abuses...

I think we could all agree with that.

 

[geocajun]

I think we could all agree with that.

See, now thats ecumenism at work.
You shared your faith, and found common ground.

 

[plainswolf]

Because some of us choose to hold to the disciplines and ways of the Tridentine Rite is no reason to brand us as outdated, schismatic or any other such nonsense! We are simply exercising our lawful aspirations given us by the Holy father Pope John Paul II. Because we approach ecumenism with prudence, caution, and are wary of the abuses that take place under such a banner in no way means that somehow we are opposed to our Pope or the Magesterium. Catholics have always done many of the things ecumenism calls for, but we have dones so without the likes of Assisi or ecumenical church services at Protestant Churches. As I have said elsewhere in this topic I believe the Church has the best intentions in ecumenism, but abuses take place and so much so that the definition of ecumenism becomes synonymous with abuse.

Historically speaking whenever heretical elements or abuse began to show itself within the Church, the Church tightened the Barque of Peter up and appropriately so. So is it any wonder then why there is wariness and caution by some when we see the Church not securing and tightening itself up against such onslaughts, but rather loosening and opening itself up even more so? This only serves to facilitate these elements and abuses.

J.M.J.
plainswolf

 

[Epiphanygirl]

Oh I'm sorry, did you have a serious question or do you just want to bait some more?

Dude, you need to chill.
From reading all your posts in this thread it really made me wonder, thats why I asked the questions. If you don't want to answer a simple yes or no, that's fine.
I'm really insulted that people can laugh and mock Vatican II and speak ill of our current Magisterium, as well as insunuate that they shouldn't be listened to.
We've had other Popes since our beloved Pope Pious, each has brought something to the table in their own way. But Pope Pious's teachings are not the end all be all of our faith...they are just a beautiful thoughtful, and add to our living faith just as those that followed him.