Ecumenical Worship?

[rmills]

A site I hit today proposes this,

1. We promote understanding of and mutual respect for the many differences in forms of worship.
2. We seek creative, practical ways for shared worship among member bodies, in order to overcome some of our sense of separation for one another.

I read in the Book of Revelation the following examples of different churches:

Ephesus:
They left their first love.

Smyrna:
Church of martyrdom, persecution, suffering, and poverty

Pergamos:
Married to the world. The world infiltrated the church. Mixed doctrines.

Thyatira:
Continual sacrifice. Ungodly doctrines mixed in.

Sardis:
The "dead" church. Few not defiled. The Reformation.

Philadelphia:
Church of brotherly love.

Laodicea:
Sensual, Church of lukewarmness—spewed out.
(A Laodicean church will often use the world's sensuality to entice people in...their music, their sensual stage antics, the sensual cooing of words, likening a relationship with their "Christ" to that with a lover in the bedroom. This they parade about with latest fashionable sensual attire.

There is a lot there to absorb but none the less, I see a vast comparison between different churches in Biblical times. We would have to agree that the differences are even more vast today than they were when this book was written.

So my question is, can there truly be an ecumenical form of worship without the compromise of some of ones foundational or systematic beliefs? Is ecumenical worship a straw dog? The word clearly states that it is God’s desire to see us worship in unity. Does that unity truly exist between a (example) Universalistic believer and a hard line Predestination believer?

 

[d0c markus]

the ecumenical movement will never work, the only time the church sects will be unified is when christ returns. At least that is my impression so far, havent done much research on it.

 

[drdeancrosby]

Fortunately there's a very short answer to your question.NO!Can I leave now or do I need to explain?The church has gone through several stages in it's development.It is now in it's apostasy phase - the final change before Jesus' return.What this means is that tremendous evil or as some call it "a falling away" has overtaken many churches.You know something is wrong in a church when:1.The ministers fail to warn the mothers in their congregations against the sin of abortion.2.The ministers fail to teach their young adults about the sin of war and killing3.The ministers show a tolerance of homosexuality - a deadly sin that condemns it's partakers to hell.The problem is that there are so many churches that have given into the ways of the world(or accepted social norms such as multiple marriages/divorces,in order to maintain financial support in the community) in spite of the very clear biblical teaching HE WHO LOVES THE WORLD IS AN ENEMY OF GOD;that if other churches which do follow Jesus' teachings attempted to unite with them,they would find their own Christian values corrupted.In fact that's exactly what is occurring.The Roman Catholic Church and the Episcopal Church were in talks to unify their churches until a homosexual bishop was approved,at which point the talks were called off.It's really important to stay close to Jesus and His teachings rather than to give in to the social norms of a throughly corrupt society or join a church that accepts those norms.

 

[rmills]

I love both of you guys.

And I would agree with both statements.

dOc markus, I have refered to Ecumenicisim as a movement before and have been run out of forums for it.

I guess my next question would be...

Is Promise Keepers a form of ecumenical worship?


Here comes the firing line! Im running!

 

[Dad Ernie]

So my question is, can there truly be an ecumenical form of worship without the compromise of some of ones foundational or systematic beliefs? Is ecumenical worship a straw dog? The word clearly states that it is God’s desire to see us worship in unity. Does that unity truly exist between a (example) Universalistic believer and a hard line Predestination believer?

Greetings RMills,

The Lord frequently gathered with "sinners" to teach, instruct and love them. Today, I haven't found a church that has 100% truth or 100% parisheners that are on fire for the Lord. What does it take to have fellowship with someone of another denomination, and that is what I believe we are talking about here. I believe we should be directed by the Holy Spirit in regards to which fellowship we should belong, and always be open to His leading, if He decides to lead us elsewhere. There are good solid Christians in almost every denominations, even those that may be called "cultic", like the LDS. I believe that when it is time, God will call HIS SAINTS out from all the churches so as not to partake of the punishment that will come upon them for being so "worldly". However that said:

1 Corinthians 11:19 For there must be also heresies among you, that they which are approved may be made manifest among you.

So whereever we go, we shall find "differences" among us, but "by their fruit shall you know them."

I believe the "ecumenical movement" is leading to the last days one world government/religion. It will cross all bounds - Catholic/Islam/Shinto/Budhism/Protestantism/ etc., etc. And anyone that "thinks differently" will be persecuted and I believe at some point, hunted down and killed. But:

Isaiah 40:31 But they that wait upon the LORD shall renew their strength; they shall mount up with wings as eagles; they shall run, and not be weary; and they shall walk, and not faint.

Revelation 12:11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.

Blessings,

Dad Ernie

 

[d0c markus]

I love you 2 man.

hmmm... whose pushing the ecumenical movement?

 

[rmills]

Hey Dad Ernie,

Funny you should point to a one-world government as a comparison. I would liken true ecumenical worship to that concept as well. All that it requires to work is equalization of freedom and political belief with all parties to be effective. Those who practice the most freedom or liberty are of course those who stand to loose the most for the sake of the cause. This is the same required level of sacrifice for any believer who abides by the Word of God. For ecumenical worship to work, all we have to do is agree to accept beliefs that we know are contrary teachings to the word of God.

We all know that when folks get together from different theologies, tempers flare, fingers point, accusations of whether or not someone is saved fly everywhere. It seems to me that the only folks that like the concept of ecumenical worship are those that tend to run from scriptural interpretation conflicts.

When the Bible warns us that even the elect would be deceived if it were possible, when it warns that there will be a great falling away, it is NOT kidding around. The ecumenical movement will eventually sweep Christianity (as if it hasn’t already) and the outcome will be a church of “perceived” unity that does not teach the word of God but rather the traditions of men that make the word of God as of no effect.

 

[rmills]

I love you 2 man.

hmmm... whose pushing the ecumenical movement?

The catholic church is defiantly a major factor but I think the movement will hit a lot closer to home than that.

 

[Symes]

Revelation 13:16
"And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the mouth of the dragon, and out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet."

Revelation 19:20
"And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone."

The catholic church is defiantly a major factor but I think the movement will hit a lot closer to home than that. (rmills)

I believe that the "false prophet" is apostate protestantism. How many Protestants do you see protesting today? Hardly any.

With the ecumenical movement on the increase we will less and less protesting about what makes Protestants.

 

[d0c markus]

hmm.. what does that mean you think?

 

[pmarquette]

I love you 2 man.

hmmm... whose pushing the ecumenical movement?

when the tribulation starts ... the world will not be concerned about the name tags , but anyone who Professes Christ ....

we have the apostles creed and Lord's prayer to start ....
why can't we agree on what we agree , and go out
and do the works of mercy together for a start ? [ mat. 25.32-42 ]