ECT diary

[Lakercom]

I have made numerous posts about the success of ECT (Electro Convulsive Therapy) in treating my serious depression so I am starting a thread to update folks on how I am doing with it and encouraging others to consider its use, or at least not to dismiss it as archaic.

With this thread I may repeat some of the information on how well it worked for me with no memory loss, etc.

I had my ECT treatments in January 2007 but in the last month I have been experiencing a wearing off (erosion) of its effect and I am having a frustrating time getting in for maintenance treatments. I am hopeful that this maintenance ECT will work to "refresh" my brain. I have had three depressions in the last month but my mood has been up more than down, Praise the Lord.

Your prayers will be appreciated. I am still not asleep and it is after 2:30 AM. This is no fun but I had depression for years ... and years ... so it is not unfamiliar to me.

My illness was not responsive to AD's. I still thank my God and Jesus for choosing me to follow Him/Them. I love my church and serving in it. I am teaching a Sunday School class of Grades 2 - 6 right now. The material is The Seven C's of History published by Answers in Genesis and I just love it and them.

Our church denomination had a regional conference on the weekend and it was great. I serve on the church board and headed the spring cleanup and enjoyed doing that even if I tend to stress a little over it. If my health is fine, and it was, it is worth it.

 

[Lakercom]

I am frustrated because our government healthcare in Canada has a somewhat bureaucratic procedure where I have to go through a waiting list for a specialist to get these treatments, which, in my opinion, is a follow-up to my previous treatment. I sometimes tell people I wish we had separation of healthcare and state. I am, however, encouraged by the level of acceptance and usage of ECT at our public hospital in my part of Canada. I know many government hospitals in the USA discourage ECT or do not offer it.

 

[s_gunter]

I am so glad this is working for you. Any level of healing is a step in the right direction. My prayers go up for you!!

 

[Lakercom]

Thank you ever so much for your prayers, s gunter. I am feeling better now. It is weird. The last two depressions I had, only lasted about 30 hours each -- a week ago and again yesterday/today. It is almost like a valve [ or switch = ] in my brain turning off and on. Now that I am feeling better I can see good things that occur while I am depressed. It helps draw me closer to the Lord, I think, in some regards. I listen to people better. My wife has been extremely busy doing accounting in her home based business and it helped me to "stay out of her way".

Another good thing that happened when I was depressed for a week about one month ago wass that I cancelled our cable TV and now we have more time for reading and devotions etcetra. There is lots of bad stuff on TV, too, so I am now avoiding it. I was able to tell my satellite cable TV provider that if they wanted to keep me as a customer they needed to provide more Christians stations and less junk. It was fun talking to them. I actually got a Christian at the call centre on one of my conversations. I find that if there is "soft" porn on some TV stations, I do not have the discipline to avoid it. Also, if there is the ability to put channel locks on some stations for "child censorship", adults should not be watching as well, so now I do not have to worry about it.

The only way to get my appointment with a psychiatrist sooner than later will be to go to the emergency ward and demand attention which is kind of ridiculous. I cannot plan things when I am randomly “going down” with depression. For instance, I am a farmer and do some herbicide spraying for a few neighbours and I have to turn down work if I cannot depend on my health.

 

[Lakercom]

I decided to make some noise at "Emerg" (ER) in order to get some action from the Psych doctors. In order to get ECT sooner than later, I took the offer to stay a few nights in the Psych ward and get moved up "in the queue". There is no queue for ECT as far as I know but there is to see a Psychiatrist who approves/prescribes the ECT.

I got to see my old Psychiatrist, who is a Christian, but he is now full time as an inpatient/Ward physician. I am happy to be home for a weekend (overnight) pass. I am going to take my DVD, "Shock", and see if anyone wants watch it. I was surprised that the ECT nurse (Ed) has not seen it.

I met a nice lady who has been getting ECT for a month. She had the milder unilateral ECT for two weeks (3X/week) and it never made a dent in her crippling depression so they upped it to bilateral and she is doing very well now. She has some short-term memory loss but said it comes back and she has strategies like lists to make it return. She is now an outpatient. Her husband took her home yesterday. She lives 90 minutes from the hospital so that is possibly why she has been in the hospital for so long.

I signed a consent form to get up to 20 treatments over the next two years. It is interesting to note that the doctor almost prescribed bilateral ECT, which causes more memory loss. All I got before, and need now, is the unilateral treatment. I caught the mistake and told my doctor it was scary that he did not have my previous records to make this decision. There was a Psych nurse with us for the meeting and she quickly got the previous records. It was what I thought -- unilateral and on the left side. The left side is less affected for memory loss than the right due to the specific tasks each side of the brain do. I also reduced the frequency of treatments my doc recommended as I respond well and I do not want to go too manic and "disrupt my marriage" (this is a remark typical of my wife).

 

[Lakercom]

I recieved my third treatment this morning. I think I might be cycling back into depression. The (my) objective of the ECT was to keep me from relapsing so it does not seem to be working. Things will be clearer by Thursday when I get my next unilateral treatment. If there is no improvement but further deterioration by then, I am going to demand to see the ward Psychiatrist and hopefully discuss bilateral ECT. I just finished reading the book, Electroshock by Max Fink. His theory is that the centre of the brain, at the base of the brain stem, is where hormone control occurs and bilateral stimulation is better for releasing the good hormones that help a person to think better and more clearly.

 

[Everlasting33]

Although I am aware that you are very loyal to ECT, have you experimented with cognitive therapy? Studies have shown that more individuals experience faster recovery when they combine different therapeutic methods.

Take care.

 

[Lakercom]

Although I am aware that you are very loyal to ECT, have you experimented with cognitive therapy? Studies have shown that more individuals experience faster recovery when they combine different therapeutic methods.

Take care.

Thank you for your interest. I have seen a couple of psychologists. One of them gave me the "ink blotter" test among other tests and counseling. One of the psychologists was also a pastor. To be honest, I am not sure what cognitive therapy is. I told my Psychiatrist about 10 days ago that counseling tends to "depress me" (more) because, even though I may get a bit of a lift emotionally, I feel guilty about taking more time from work and family for little results. My wife is my counselor. I bounce everything off her and she gives good feedback. Right now we are in a "wait and see" mode, which I think is wise.

My wife and I have gotten marriage counseling throughout the winter from our husband/wife pastors and they were very helpful. We came out of it much better for the time spent and we still have some to do. Ironically, part of the problem was my wife dealing with the "euphoria" after the ECT.

I have read some of your posts where you explain different types of psychotherapy but I cannot remember them.

Godspeed

 

[Everlasting33]

Thank you for your interest. I have seen a couple of psychologists. One of them gave me the "ink blotter" test among other tests and counseling. One of the psychologists was also a pastor. To be honest, I am not sure what cognitive therapy is. I told my Psychiatrist about 10 days ago that counseling tends to "depress me" (more) because, even though I may get a bit of a lift emotionally, I feel guilty about taking more time from work and family for little results. My wife is my counselor. I bounce everything off her and she gives good feedback. Right now we are in a "wait and see" mode, which I think is wise.

My wife and I have gotten marriage counseling throughout the winter from our husband/wife pastors and they were very helpful. We came out of it much better for the time spent and we still have some to do. Ironically, part of the problem was my wife dealing with the "euphoria" after the ECT.

I have read some of your posts where you explain different types of psychotherapy but I cannot remember them.

Godspeed

Thank you for your kind response. Cognitive therapy basically says that our thoughts-->feeling-->behavior. It is a basic principle and one that I believe applies to everyone. Our thoughts, either positive or negative, will influence how we feel and behave. Most depressed individuals typically engage in cognitive distortions such as all or nothing thinking, labeling, emotional reasoning (if I feel worthless than I am worthless)...you can read more here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cognitive_distortion

My heart really goes out to you. I am inspired by your resiliency and motivation to fight through your depression. Going through what you have definitely puts a lot of weight on not only you but your loved ones. It must have been very difficult and exhausting and I am sorry that you had to go through that. It does sadden me that mental illness exists in this world and I wish I could do more to help people who are in pain.

It is very good that you and your wife have entered therapy and that it was helpful. Healing from depression is painstaking for everyone involved. But it can certainly be done and you are living proof of it. Your wife sounds very strong and supportive; an essential ingredient for success!

Just keep posting and I will be sure to keep reading and giving you support.

 

[Lakercom]

Thank you for the info on cognitive therapy. The methods explained in the Wikpedia article are useful for minimizing depression in my opinion but to expect them to heal depression is somewhat of a stretch in my opinion. I agree that there is great power to improve one's mental outlook for better living using the methods outlined, especially when the Word of God is used to cleanse and retrain one's mind along with it.

I think I have done most of the methods listed and strive to do them daily. The expression "garbage in, garbage out", is applicable to maintaining healthy thoughts and Christ centred discipline. Repetition of scripture and "praying without ceasing" are very helpful, especially when one's concentration is poor and when depression causes a slowdown in the speed of thought. Another strategy is that there is power in praise, both functionally and supernaturally. I remember reading Mervin Caruthers book, Power in Praise, many years ago. As I recall it emphasized the power in a positive confession.

Being thankful in all things is good strategy. I even thanked God for the depression when I was in bad shape a couple years ago before the ECT worked so well the first time.

I got another treatment today and saw my ward psychiatrist afterward. We discussed the lack of improvement to date on this recent course of four treatments (unilateral). He agreed with my desire to switch to bilateral from unilateral treatments. He confirmed what Max Fink said in his book, Electroshock that the bilateral gives a quicker response and is more effective, requiring fewer treatments. My initial apprehension to the bilateral was the greater affect it has on memory loss but he reassured me that in his many years of experience with ECT he has not had one bad case of severe and/or permanent memory loss.

I am going to try and post a scripture using the html thingy:

[Romans 12:2]
And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

Thanks again for your comments and encouragement Steelerbred. Perhaps your and my emphases on treating depression are a two-pronged approach, equally important. Although I think depression is primarily a physical problem and should be treated (primarily) medically as such, one has to ask the question, if one is healed, what now? If one gains the whole world (i.e. health) and has not charity he has nothing (1Cor 13). Also if a man has all the material goods in the world and he dies, his soul is still going to be required of him.

 

[BrokenWing]

Garbage in, Garbage out. I like that.

 

[Lakercom]

Praise the Lord, I am getting back to the land of the living. It has been rough. The bilateral ECT treatments are more severe for the side effects but the benefits are finally becoming obvious. I had definite memory loss but it is most all back now and I have energy again. I worked 13 hours today. A month ago I was having trouble doing three hours work.

 

[Jeshu]

ECT worked for me as well, though I started getting benefit only after 4-6 treatments - I had 18 all in all - unilateral - and hardly any memory left afterwards - though it did improve a lot over the months that followed - black holes remain. Oh yes, they turned the dial right up with me as my skull is rather thickish - a laughable matter truly - but it worked.

ECT works - hardly any voices left and 75 percent of my depression gone. However counselling is also very important afterwards as otherwise depression will return over time. Maintenance ECT is also an option. (though not for me as the current is to high for my brain to cope with - a last resort only.)

Keep up the current.


Gerry

 

[Gwendolyn]

Laker, do you have any links to other threads where you have discussed ECT? I am particularly wondering:

1. What made you decide to choose ECT? Was it a scary decision?
2. When did you first begin ECT treatments?
3. What is the experience like? How does it feel physically, emotionally, etc. if you can remember it?
4. What are the side effects of an ECT treatment? Do the effects go away or minimalise the more treatments you receive?

Thanks.

 

[Lakercom]

Laker, do you have any links to other threads where you have discussed ECT? I am particularly wondering:

1. What made you decide to choose ECT? Was it a scary decision

I chose ECT because anti-depressants did not not work for me. I had experienced the majority of my 50+ year life with depression including all the classsic symptoms. I got good support from my biological family, Christian family, and my spouse. The board of my church prayed over me. It was scary but the decision was made over a long enough time I got braver as time went on.

. When did you first begin ECT treatments?

I got 12 (unilateral) ECT treatments for the first time in January 2007. I had a positive response after my third treatment and continued with the full set of 12 treatments. There was almost no memory loss throughout these.

This month I had additional treatments -- Maintanence or Continuation ECT. I had a total of 10 treatments, the first four were unilateral with no noticeable response so I requested the more aggressive bilateral treatments which continued for 6 more with a favourable response - i.e. mood improvement with better concentration and energy.

. What is the experience like? How does it feel physically, emotionally, etc. if you can remember it?

The experience is manageable. There is no pain but the recovery time from the anesthetic is annoying. The staff in day surgery is supportive emotionally. One of the docs was a Christian and one of the specialized O.R. nurses I saw occasionally was a friend who I also saw in the 2007 treatments. I even went to Israel with a tour group with her once.

Physically you drift off to sleep from the anesthetic, the Psychiatrist blasts you with a second or two of electricity, your body goes into a siezure for several ...15 - 45? seconds. The siezures ("convulsions") are dulled to the body because of the muscle relaxant included in the drug cocktail. You slowly wake up about five minutes later and leave the OR about an hour later once your blood pressure has reduced and muscle balance is back. I usually have a headache for a couple of hours but did not find it severe enough to take anything for it.

. What are the side effects of an ECT treatment? Do the effects go away or minimalise the more treatments you receive?

Side effects are memory loss, poor temperament, and (too) early rising but there has been an over all improvement in sleeping patterns. I expect to experience weight gain in the future. I had put on about 30 pounds in 2007 and lost about 15 pounds throught the first half of 2008 as the ECT wore off and my depression slowly returned.
I think the memory loss becomes more severe with each bilateral treatment but everything else is fairly consistent. It is a day surgery event where you check in and change about 7 AM and get out about 9 AM. I remember once I filled my pants with a full BM so that was rather unpleasant. Occassionally I urinated too. These occurences only occured with the bilateral though.

The jury is still out with me if I would do the bilateral again. I think I would. It is more effective and quicker. I would probably do fewer though. I am thinking that in the future I may get three bilateral treatments every six months or something like that.
The memory loss is not neccessarily permanent. It slowly comes back. Examples are forgetting which cupboard my cereal bowl is in, forgetting I test drove a truck and forgetting the actual event of buying a truck. It was a struggle teaching my Sunday School class, especially the first week. I think my kids found my instruction on "The Seven C's of History" a bit vague but they are great and some of them (grades 2 -6) can almost teach the class themselves. I had trouble remembering a recipe for French Salad Dressing I had memorized since a teenager but it was fun remembering it with my wife. I work part time on a family farm and my Mom said I was like a "Zombie".

My wife and I have had marriage counselling since the ECT. My temperament has been a bit difficult but I have been able to do more work which helps my wife. We have a home business so there has been less yard work for her to do. We do regular bible Study together.


Links I have found helpful:

http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/comments/MY00029_comments#post This is a Mayo clinic depression blog and I am Lakercom.

Literature:

Shock (the book 2006 and DVD 2006)
by
Kitty Dukakis and Larry Tye

 

[Lakercom]

My title for this post is slang I learned while living in the Caribbean West Indies(Barbados for three years).

My mood and energy levels are holding up well. My sleep patterns remain good. I had a hard week of work last week doing haying, where I work at my parents ranch, and I got a lot of rest over the weekend.

One of the psychiatrists I saw (a Christian) while living in Barbados in the mid 1990’s made an interesting comment once; he said the good thing about depression is that "it (usually) gets better". He made this comment when my depression had gone into remission for a while and I was feeling very good, so it was time appropriate. I realize his comment may seem inaccurate to a long-term sufferer of depression who has not experienced any relief but most people have a somewhat cyclic nature to this illness, even when they are not bipolar. My illness is unipolar and dysthalmic (long term, “mild”, and persistent). I do experience periods of remission naturally but as I get older I realize these times become fewer and/or shorter and that is why I decided to go for the ECT in January 2007 and the maintenance (repeat) ECT in May/June 2008. I do not regret it. My Psychiatrist friend who made the above comment was referring to the fact that other mental illness's like Schizophrenia do not normally have periods of improvement or remission so that is where he was coming from. Apparently Bi-polar depression enjoys a better response from ECT than unipolar cases like mine. Since depression has normal periods of improvement it is difficult to diagnose (i.e. have the sufferer admit he has it) and evaluate treatments. I was optimistic for a while that Effexor was working for me but it became apparent, after years of use, it was not helping. All it did was diminish my bank account.

I am very impressed by the people who are posting on this depression forum and my prayers go out to you all. My advice is to hang on to God (and Jesus) for all your worth and ask and trust. I have made remarks before about being careful not to rationalize and/or spiritualize depression (to excess). I worked for a Pharmaceutical company in Barbados for 18 months. This makes me no expert but combined with experience, I think anti-depressants are way over rated although they do work for some. I think the non-medical treatments (talk, exercise, light, work, rest) can treat the symptoms but do not offer a cure.

Praise the Lord and keep on seeking Him.

 

[Lakercom]

When seeing my psychiatrist this week I discovered there are three types of memory – long, short, and working memory. I think the bilateral ECT I had has slightly affected my working memory and moderately affected my short-term memory. My long-term memory seems to be unaffected. My short term and working memory were not very great to begin with so I am not blessed in that area and do not have a “lot to give” in that area. I remain optimistic I made the right decision to receive ECT. I have more energy and I am able to work while remembering things. Before, it seems I spent all my concentration just trying to remember things and also worrying about things.

I want to share a couple of ideas I have had recently. First, I remember a psychiatrist telling me that one theory of depression is that a person does not get relief until ….. “the glass is overflowing”. By this I think he meant that there is a chemical threshold level where/when depression lifts or improves significantly. One concern I have about the benefit of ECT is that there is a finite level of this magic chemical and ECT simply opens the valve and prematurely depletes accumulating levels of it. Obviously a beneficial chemical to counter depression is interrelated with “electric” processes. Perhaps one could even think of AC/DC electricity being a chemical process if electrons running up and down a wire can be called a chemical. Anyway folks, speak up and give me your opinion or challenge me on these ideas and experiences.

Second idea I want to share, (oops, I forget …..grin).

Further to the overflowing glass theory, I can use this analogy to explain that depression is not a result of wrong thinking that can be overcome by right thinking and talk therapy. It is a physical problem and telling folks to “straighten out their lives and thinking”, however sincere, can be discouraging to depressed people. I am so blessed by God to survive and flourish as an overcomer and child of the Saviour. He is a never-ending source of untold strength and blessing. It is funny; I spend time in my job spraying thistles in cattle pastures with a backpack and a Quad (four wheel motorcycle). Our pastures are about 50% bush and we have bears around. Like David in the Bible who slayed the bear and the lion, I think the Lord protects me with that risk in my workplace.

 

[Jeshu]

I don't mind you asking; in fact I was thinking of PM'ing you. My last (2nd) set of treatments were 4 unilateral and 6 bilateral for a total of 10. My first set of treatments was 12 unilateral In January 2007 and they worked wonderfully for 16 months with no memory loss. The latest (2nd) treatments wore off within 2-3 months and it has affected my ability to remember things, especially short-term memory, working memory, and word search, etc. I may be exaggerating the memory loss but I am slow naturally and have trouble organizing my thoughts so I cannot afford to have anymore memory loss, at least that is how I feel about it right now. I have not lost memories of the pre ECT past so my long term memory is OK but it may take a little longer to recall it. I have a thread titled ECT diary, which goes into more detail. http://christianforums.com/showthread.php?t=7246631

My depression is quite severe. It took me most of the day to psyche myself up to start work and it finally happened at 3PM. Which type of treatments did you get? Did you have any memory problems? I must not conclude this post without quoting a scripture:
Matthew 6:33,34
Seek ye first the kingdom of God, and all these things shall be added unto you.
Therefore take no thought for the morrow, the morrow will take care of itself, sufficient unto the day is the evil thereof.

G'day

Thank you very much for the sharing of The Bread, isn't He great - The Word incarnated - our salvation assured!

About ECT

My skull is very think (hahaha..) so bi-lateral didn't work - I had unilateral, highest dosage, almost all of my 18 sessions, just the beginning ones not.

My memory loss was so severe that I couldn't remember how many kids I had! That's when they stopped!!! However the last 6 months my memory has improved again - but for the first twelve months afterwards - just a black hole inside my memory banks - the treatment itself I can hardly remember for example - but the improvement!!! Fantastic!!!


John 14:12-14 (All your requests have been granted!)

 

[Lakercom]

Jeshu, thanks for copying your comments from the HOPE thread onto this one. By "refreshing" this thread folks can review some of the pros and cons of ECT.