Economic Collapse?

gideon123

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The Dow Jones is dropping now. I believe the US is headed into a hard recession. This time things will be different ... the impact on America will be difficult. Our country must go through a big change - a change in our role in the world. China is now becoming the #1 economic power, and wealth is flowing to Asia. It's not necessarily an economic collapse for America, but real hardship and a long period of adjustment.
 
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Bee_in_the_Light

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The Dow Jones is dropping now. I believe the US is headed into a hard recession. This time things will be different ... the impact on America will be difficult. Our country must go through a big change - a change in our role in the world. China is now becoming the #1 economic power, and wealth is flowing to Asia. It's not necessarily an economic collapse for America, but real hardship and a long period of adjustment.

Earlier in this thread someone said indexes might go down as much as 60%. Where would it put you at? If DJIA went down 60%, you would be at the level of October 2009. That was almost 50% higher than March 2009.

A Recession is always possible, but again, I don't think either there's going to be any collapse of the civilized society if that happens.

Last weeks drop was caused by the threat of increasing trade barriers by President Trump. While we have many reasons to expect long term economic decline in Western world (and especially in Europe), these kinds of decisions are like shooting ourselves in the leg.

I think the best kind of prepping still is making your best to ensure any decline goes as smoothly as possible, and there is no collapse.
 
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Southernscotty

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I am blessed to live where I do, When an ice storm or something similar hits, it is no "Big" deal, Everyone has back up heat and is fairly well stocked, {as far as most are concerned anyway}. Now I know we are talking about a big event happening here and if, "when" that happens I am with bugkiller and prefer my assets to be in usable forms such as items I can use and maintain my place with. When this happens, things like a simple 40.00 axe will be invaluable.
 
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bugkiller

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The Dow Jones is dropping now. I believe the US is headed into a hard recession. This time things will be different ... the impact on America will be difficult. Our country must go through a big change - a change in our role in the world. China is now becoming the #1 economic power, and wealth is flowing to Asia. It's not necessarily an economic collapse for America, but real hardship and a long period of adjustment.
So how can some one get out of the system? I think the first step is be in business for your self. One must be selective in what they choose as a business. I think a service type business would be the best way to go. That type of business has little to no inventory and possibly make the client responsible to acquire all necessary goods. That means you have no hard goods for sale. That leaves maximum negotiation power on your side. This works much better for those who live in the country. City people are very limited in what they can do. IOW in the country you can live with out income or money by planting a garden. You can catch rain water and store. Bottom line is one does not need the conveniences luxuries of the city. Paper goods are a luxury. So is soap. True wealth is food, water and shelter.

bugkiller
 
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bugkiller

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Earlier in this thread someone said indexes might go down as much as 60%. Where would it put you at? If DJIA went down 60%, you would be at the level of October 2009. That was almost 50% higher than March 2009.

A Recession is always possible, but again, I don't think either there's going to be any collapse of the civilized society if that happens.

Last weeks drop was caused by the threat of increasing trade barriers by President Trump. While we have many reasons to expect long term economic decline in Western world (and especially in Europe), these kinds of decisions are like shooting ourselves in the leg.

I think the best kind of prepping still is making your best to ensure any decline goes as smoothly as possible, and there is no collapse.
Does not really matter to me what happens to the DOW. Last time my neighbor got scared and withdrew losing 60 grand.

bugkiller
 
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Bee_in_the_Light

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Does not really matter to me what happens to the DOW. Last time my neighbor got scared and withdrew losing 60 grand.

Doesn't matter to me, either. All my stocks are European.

I wouldn't say it's inconsequential, though. In the long run, stock prices should mirror companies ability to create value. A stock market crash can have adverse effects on real economy, too. But my whole point was; we have seen stock market crashes (and will see in the future), yet they don't lead to societal collapse.
 
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bugkiller

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Doesn't matter to me, either. All my stocks are European.

I wouldn't say it's inconsequential, though. In the long run, stock prices should mirror companies ability to create value. A stock market crash can have adverse effects on real economy, too. But my whole point was; we have seen stock market crashes (and will see in the future), yet they don't lead to societal collapse.
There are many things besides the companies that issue the stocks effecting the market. One market effects another because many companies invest part of their capitol in other companies. This knows no national boundaries.

bugkller
 
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SavedByGrace3

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Southernscotty

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Don't know bro... that wood stock may go up in smoke.
I will have to save those first then. Then the others. I just need to get my priorities straight. lol
 
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gideon123

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Please take a look at the Dow Jones Index.

www.stockcharts.com
and type in ... $INDU

Look at that chart. The economy is plunging. Have you heard a single person who told you to protect yourself against a serious oncoming Recession? Well you heard it here first. And you wont hear it from any of the ' financial advisors'. Be careful, and prepare for very tough times ahead!!

Please Note: I did not say Economic Collapse.
But I did say ... a serious economic Recession.

Blessings!!
 
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Andrew77

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Not to ruin everyone's imminent doom fest here.....

But just for the record, let's look at what a real 'plunging' economy looks like on a stock market crash.

StockCrash29.jpg


That's 1929 to 1932, where the market dropped consistently, year over year, for 3 years straight.

Screen Shot 2018-04-26 at 1.01.02 AM.png


This is the DOW over the past year. There is absolutely no indication of a consistent decline in the market, that would indicate a serious long term economic crash.

Now it is true that the market is clearly wobbly. That doesn't mean the economy is. There's a difference.

The reason the market is so wobbly is not because of any actual change in the economy itself, but rather that the market is reacting to possible future policy. And Trump is extremely wobbly on this. One minute he says it's going to be a massive tariff, then only a minor tariff, then it will be large but temporary tariff.... all of these things is making the market jittery.

How do I know that's the reason? Because tariffs always cause a trade war, and a trade war always damages the economy.

This was true back in 1929 as well.

StockCrash29.png

In that picture I circled one part where you see that the market started to recover.

Do you know why? There is actually a specific reason why in 1930, the market started going back up.

In 1929, Hoover was elected on a platform that included massive protectionism. In late 1929, that tariff bill started moving through congress, and Hoover openly pledged to sign it.

That's when the market crash began. People in the industry understood that this would crash the economy, and started selling off stocks, because those companies would end up damaged by the trade war.

Then in early 1930, the Senate and the House, failed to reach an agreement. The people in the House of Representatives, were against tariffs... and the bill was effectively dead.

When the Tariff Bill got stuck, the markets started to recover. That's what you see in that circle.

Mid to late 1930, a bunch of house members who were against protectionism, rolled over and passed the bill. All the recovery of the market disappeared, and the crash continued for the next 2 years.

So all that, to say this.

When Trump first got into office, he was planning a massive tariff on everything. That would have destroyed our economy. When you look at the DOW, the biggest drop was when Trump was first elected and pledged tariffs.

Now, he's talking more about 'targeted' tariffs, on a select number of goods, that could be temporary. So you see the market going up when he says somethings, and down when he says others, and it wobbles all over the place.

I personally am of the opinion that there will not be a crash like 1929. I don't think the people around Trump, will let him tariff the economy into destruction. I think we will avoid a trade war.

But... if it does happen.... then we could be in for a recession.

There is one key difference between our economy today, and that of 1929.

In 1929, everything was about steel, and iron, and imported goods, and exported goods.

In today's economy, many of our largest companies are in the information and services business. We're not nearly as dependent on steel and iron, as we were in the past. So even if Trump were to put in place large tariffs, I don't think the damage will be as extensive as it was in 1929.

Lastly.... and I just have to throw this out there.

On a Christian based forum like this, we all know the book of revelations says that there will be a world wide economic crash. And we can see how this crash could happen, given how many of the all the 1st world countries are up to their eye balls in debt.

But if you really are trying to pull all your money out and buy gold.... who do you think you are going to sell your gold to? If the entire economy crash, no one is going to buy your gold from you.

And you prepers, you likely shouldn't be on a forum, talking about prepping. Because the police are not going to protect you. Someone seeing your name on a forum talking about prepping, is just going to make you a target of the mob. Literally.
 
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gideon123

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Folks can point to politics. But if you do your research you will find that the recent high in the Dow Jones is the highest level of speculation in the history of the markets. The highest, and the P/E levels are completely unjustified.

Why? Rampant speculation and the Greater Fool Theory. The idea that if a fool buys an asset for a ridiculous price, then another fool will come along and pay even more. That game stops ... when it **stops**. And it is stopping now.

Now.

No need to believe that Trump, the Fed, Congress, or The Easter Bunny can stop this crash. They cannot. If they had run our country on sound economic pronciples, and if they had restored proper leadership to our banks in 2008, then maybe we would have had a fighting chance. They did not.

When Bubbles break, they are "breaking bad". Its nothing more or less than the collapse of the Greater Fool Theory.

Gold is a good asset for crises. Russia is buying gold hand over fist, which tells you that Putin is expecting serious crises in the future. But normal families cannot eat gold or silver. They need food. It is better for people to switch to sustainable living, and try to grow their own food.

Here is an example of what I am talking about. I just spoke to a realtor in a small-town area in California. I asked him why land prices have exploded in his town.The town has not grown, the place is the same. He said ... "look honestly. we have seen 50 pieces of land change hands here over the last few years. and not one person built a house on that land, after they bought it."

That is an example of pure speculation, more commonly called "rampant greed". And any time the Greater Fool theory has pushed prices to enormous levels, a crash is guaranteed.

Americans have to get back to the Bible, they have have to get back to adult behavior. We've got children running this country.
 
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Andrew77

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Folks can point to politics. But if you do your research you will find that the recent high in the Dow Jones is the highest level of speculation in the history of the markets. The highest, and the P/E levels are completely unjustified.

Why? Rampant speculation and the Greater Fool Theory. The idea that if a fool buys an asset for a ridiculous price, then another fool will come along and pay even more. That game stops ... when it **stops**. And it is stopping now.

Now.

No need to believe that Trump, the Fed, Congress, or The Easter Bunny can stop this crash. They cannot. If they had run our country on sound economic pronciples, and if they had restored proper leadership to our banks in 2008, then maybe we would have had a fighting chance. They did not.

When Bubbles break, they are "breaking bad". Its nothing more or less than the collapse of the Greater Fool Theory.

Gold is a good asset for crises. Russia is buying gold hand over fist, which tells you that Putin is expecting serious crises in the future. But normal families cannot eat gold or silver. They need food. It is better for people to switch to sustainable living, and try to grow their own food.

Here is an example of what I am talking about. I just spoke to a realtor in a small-town area in California. I asked him why land prices have exploded in his town.The town has not grown, the place is the same. He said ... "look honestly. we have seen 50 pieces of land change hands here over the last few years. and not one person built a house on that land, after they bought it."

That is an example of pure speculation, more commonly called "rampant greed". And any time the Greater Fool theory has pushed prices to enormous levels, a crash is guaranteed.

Americans have to get back to the Bible, they have have to get back to adult behavior. We've got children running this country.

The P/E ration wasn't all that bad last I looked it up. Right now the P/E ratio is under 25. The P/E ration throughout the 90s, was between 20 and 25.

It isn't all that out of line.

The banks have nothing to do with this. GE, Microsoft, and Ford, are not going to sell more cars, or sell less cars, because their bank does, or doesn't, have good leadership.

Lastly, using Russia as an example of anything, is a false comparison.

Russia is not buying gold because they are worried about an economic collapse.

They are buying gold because the Russian Rubble, has already crashed.

RUB.png


Their currency started falling in value, the moment they went into Crimea, and started a war with Ukraine. Everyone understood there would be sanctions against Russia, and started off loading their Russian investments.

This is in fact what happened, and thus their currency has never really recovered.

The Russians are claiming that it's an "attack on their currency"....when in reality it is merely what happens when you block trade. When you block imports, and exports, then all companies that rely on imports or exports suffer.....

Which as a side note, is exactly why Trump's protectionism plan is causing our stock market to wobble.
Protectionism and tariffs harms the country that engages in it. If it didn't, then our sanctions against Russia should be making the country stronger.... right?

Anyway.... the point is, they are not buying gold because they were worried about an economic crash world wide. They are buying gold, because their money is worthless.

The US dollar is not crashing. Doesn't look like it will crash any time soon.
 
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Richard T

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There are quite a few that are warning of harder times ahead. I see various analysts on major media outlets that are now bearish on the stock market, some even calling for a collapse worse than 1929. Stock market CRASH: 'Earthquake IMMINENT' as billionaire issues STARK WARNING to investors Meanwhile you have others like Billy Graham's daughter Anne Lotz, saying their may be a time of judgement if America does not repent. Anne Graham: Judgment is Coming to 'Immoral' America, Perhaps a 'Nuclear Strike' The biggest failing with trained economists is their lack of acknowledgement that God ultimately controls every economy. Still, even by their fundamentals the world economy is on shaky ground with very high personal, corporate and government debt levels. Few can imagine that the stock market may not return to new highs for twenty years or more. Btw this happened to Japan. "Does the market always come back? Investors in the Nikkei 225 (NIKKEIINDICES:^NI225) are still wondering. On Dec. 29, 1989, the Japanese analogue to the Dow Jones Industrial Average (DJINDICES:^DJI) reached an all-time intraday high of 38,957. Two decades later, the Nikkei's value was still 73% below that mark." The Beginning of the Longest Bear Market in Modern History
Anyway, if you think about revival, consider 9/11 where for several weeks people returned to church. For the next revival/reformation, to occur there likely is going to be some catalyst and there is a good chance that catalyst will be some type of judgement as Lotz describes. In the interim, we do have Trump and there has been a surging economy, though much of it is false based on abnormally low interest rates and high borrowing. In 2008, when some large banks could not pay their debts, the Federal Reserve stepped in loaning and putting debt on their books by the trillions. They are only stating to clear the 4.4 trillion now. By not clearing it sooner, will people around the world believe they can handle another collapse? Once faith in currency is destroyed, the system could collapse entirely. Our money says "in God we Trust" but some may not know this until they have no money. Thus, between catalysts like earthquakes and nuclear threats to even shaky economic fundamentals, it is good for a Christian to lean on God, remove excesses, and make sure that they are following God's will for everything, especially including their finances. Sorry to post so long and alarming but in the secular world I rarely have a chance to explain how the fundamental basis for everything economic starts with God.
 
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gideon123

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To be honest, while an Economic Collapse seems like a real possibility (by which I mean a very strong Recession), I worry much more about a Spiritual Collapse. The signs of that are everywhere in America. Truly, the spiritual collapse is the deep concern of God. This country cannot possibly stand on a firm foundation, if we abandon all hope in God.

Best wishes to all persons here who are trying to strengthen their families ... in faith, in prayer and for a secure future.
 
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drjean

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I'm selling my house---getting the rest of my equity out. The banks are being allowed to do almost exactly what the previous admin forced upon them that caused the housing crisis/dump. There are still a few foreclosures for sale down here btw.

Right now, the next crisis the banks have they will hold onto our monies, not take from investors! IDK if getting rid of the Frank-Dodd fiasco would change this. Did they vote today? IDK.

I think the economy is stronger than it has been in 10 years. Our debt is being reduced through some of the things being done that appear to cost us more but pays off really.

however I don't believe everything I'm seeing.

For the OP, are Michael Ruppert, Jake Ward profitting too much from their advice?
 
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