Eating pork and shellfish is a grave sin.

12volt_man · Feb 2, 2004

Holy Warrior said:
If you want to follow the OT food laws, fair play to you. However, DON'T criticise others for not doing so. That's just not a dead-on thing to do.

I agree. To that, I would just add, if you're going to follow OT food laws, be consistent and follow all of them.

I_Praise_Him · Feb 2, 2004

I just discussed this on another thread. In Leviticus 11 it states that you should not eat certain things because they are unclean for you. Things such as pigs, crustaceans, rabbits, etc. These were words spoken by God to Moses and Aaron for them to tell the Israelites. (See Leviticus 11:1-2)

However, in Genesis 9:3 it states... "Everything that lives and moves will be food for you. Just as I gave you the green plants, I now give you everything." These were God's words to Noah and his sons (of which we can logically be included). Notice how He didn't say to tell this to the Israelites, like He did in Leviticus 11.

Yes, you can get diseases from pig meat like Tricanosis (sp?). And you can die from a dangerous bacteria that can be in shellfish because they may have eaten poisonous plankton. You can still die from a diseased Salmon too though. But 2000+ years ago conditions were not as sanitary as they are now. It's pretty safe to eat pork nowadays. Your chances of getting a disease from a pig are pretty much slim-to-none. And health professionals say you shouldn't eat shellfish that were caught in any month that doesn't have an "R" in it... basically, the summer months when the poisonous plankton are at their peak levels.

deu58 · Feb 2, 2004

I_Praise_Him said:
I just discussed this on another thread. In Leviticus 11 it states that you should not eat certain things because they are unclean for you. Things such as pigs, crustaceans, rabbits, etc. These were words spoken by God to Moses and Aaron for them to tell the Israelites. (See Leviticus 11:1-2)

However, in Genesis 9:3 it states... "Everything that lives and moves will be food for you. Just as I gave you the green plants, I now give you everything." These were God's words to Noah and his sons (of which we can logically be included). Notice how He didn't say to tell this to the Israelites, like He did in Leviticus 11.

Yes, you can get diseases from pig meat like Tricanosis (sp?). And you can die from a dangerous bacteria that can be in shellfish because they may have eaten poisonous plankton. You can still die from a diseased Salmon too though. But 2000+ years ago conditions were not as sanitary as they are now. It's pretty safe to eat pork nowadays. Your chances of getting a disease from a pig are pretty much slim-to-none. And health professionals say you shouldn't eat shellfish that were caught in any month that doesn't have an "R" in it... basically, the summer months when the poisonous plankton are at their peak levels.

Hello I praise him

How does your girlfriend feel about this? When my wife and I first married she told me that she was no longer going to cook meat for me because she did not like to handle it or the smell.{ She is SDA Full vegetarian} I told her I could understand her position because Having to buy all those fruits and vegies to keep her fed was very expensive and I really did not care for having to pay them.

So I offered her a proposition. I would eat out or buy and cook my own food and she could go out and get a Job and provide her own food. That was nine years ago and she has not gotten a job yet nor has she complained about having to cook my food.

yours in Christ
deu58

I_Praise_Him · Feb 2, 2004

Hiya Deu58,

My girlfriend doesn't eat pork, shellfish, or anything else mentioned in Leviticus 11. She's also a Sabbath-Keeper. This whole thing is going to take a LONG time to get used to. She's not a vegetarian though. When I pointed out the passage to her in Genesis 9:1-3, she kind of had a bewildered look on her face. lol

I told her that I will continue to eat pork and shellfish, and she doesn't have a problem with it and she definitely doesn't give me a hard time about it. So we have that understanding with each other. I don't like fish. The smell alone makes me want to vomit, let alone the fishy flavor. I'm very open-minded though. I've tried Salmon, trout, halibut, orange roughy, cod, tuna, mahi mahi, and a couple others that I can't remember the name of at the moment. She loves fish and usually orders broiled salmon when we go out to dinner. I like the steak-n-lobster thing, so when the waiter brings the food she looks at my lobster or prawns and goes, "Eeeew... nasty!" lol So, we tease each other and have fun with it.

Icystwolf · Feb 2, 2004

Just like to point out to everyone, we have to be a bit sensitive to the issue of shellfish.

There are shellfish mounds in Australia, where the Aboriginals use to eat shellfish.

I know this sounds a bit extreme, and I think the majority of Aboriginals do not think this way, but the shellfish are considered an important diet to Aboriginals. Calling an Aboriginal unclean and unfit in western culture, within a Christian forum, or even calling an Aboriginal Christian unfit because they eat shellfish is very discriminating. Esspecially when the memories persecution of Aboriginals hasn't washed as yet. Calling them unclean or anyone eating shellfish is barbaric....

Theres a difference between culture and religion. My culture is my chinese heritage, myself and my ancestors eat pork and find pork as a very important diet...and being called "not fit for God" because of my culture is just wrong.

There are somethings that are outruled from the Bible contained in my culture which I can take out from my culture. But pork is one thing that directly hits upon the chinese Culture.

I would call on those who are against pork and shellfish, to be careful not to call on others and insult their culture. Naming a group of people, like symes, who ate pork as unfit for God is cowardly....that is in my opinion discrimination to chinese Christians.

PS:What ever happened to the "listen to your elders" ? It's so lacking in this forum....don't you recon?

Symes · Feb 2, 2004

I would call on those who are against pork and shellfish, to be careful not to call on others and insult their culture. Naming a group of people, like symes, who ate pork as unfit for God is cowardly....that is in my opinion discrimination to chinese Christians.

PS:What ever happened to the "listen to your elders" ? It's so lacking in this forum....don't you recon?

Icystwolf

When God gave the ten commandments He did not say well this culture can break them or that culture does not need to follow them. I have never refereed to indigenous Australians as unclean or to Chinese as being unclean.

It may pay to get your facts right before you come saying things like that.

When God says things are unclean He is not saying the people are so don't spin words, OK.

I am probably your elder so give some respect yourself.

Symes · Feb 2, 2004

I would call on those who are against pork and shellfish, to be careful not to call on others and insult their culture. Naming a group of people, like symes, who ate pork as unfit for God is cowardly....that is in my opinion discrimination to chinese Christians.

PS:What ever happened to the "listen to your elders" ? It's so lacking in this forum....don't you recon?

Icystwolf

When God gave the ten commandments He did not say well this culture can break them or that culture does not need to follow them. I have never refereed to indigenous Australians as unclean or to Chinese as being unclean.

It may pay to get your facts right before you come saying things like that.

When God says things are unclean He is not saying the people are so don't spin words, OK.

I am probably your elder so give some respect yourself.

Symes · Feb 2, 2004

Don't know why it posted twice, sorry aboutv that, whatever it was that caused it. Must have been something I did by mistake. Don't know if it can be erased or not.

UberLutheran · Feb 3, 2004

kosh said:
I have read in the Bible that eating pork and shellfish is prohibited by God Himself. From God's own mouth he commands this. So why do so many Christians that I have known throughout my life so blatantly ignore God's command? I was not even aware of this before I became a Christian, but now that I know, I have gievn up pork and shellfish and have asked God to forgive me for my ignorance.

I ask this question to my fellow Christians: are you aware of this law and if so then why to you ignore it? I'd really like to know, because it upset me greatly to know that so many of brothers and sister defy God's law.

I'm going to paraphrase Galatians for you (you really should read the entire letter for yourself, though).

If you want justification by the law, then you have to follow the entire law -- every single commandment, and not break any of those laws or you will not be justified before God.

On the the other hand, if you want justification by grace, through faith in Jesus Christ -- you can have that just by asking Him.

Speaking only for myself: I'll choose justification by grace, through faith in Jesus Christ any day over justification by the law.

Radagast · Feb 3, 2004

It's what the Bible says that's important...

Mark 7:

14 Again Jesus called the crowd to him and said, "Listen to me, everyone, and understand this. 15 Nothing outside a man can make him 'unclean' by going into him. Rather, it is what comes out of a man that makes him 'unclean.' " 17 After he had left the crowd and entered the house, his disciples asked him about this parable. 18 "Are you so dull?" he asked. "Don't you see that nothing that enters a man from the outside can make him 'unclean'? 19 For it doesn't go into his heart but into his stomach, and then out of his body." (In saying this, Jesus declared all foods "clean.") 20 He went on: "What comes out of a man is what makes him 'unclean.' 21 For from within, out of men's hearts, come evil thoughts, sexual immorality, theft, murder, adultery, 22 greed, malice, deceit, lewdness, envy, slander, arrogance and folly. 23 All these evils come from inside and make a man 'unclean.' "

Romans 14:

1 Accept him whose faith is weak, without passing judgment on disputable matters. 2 One man's faith allows him to eat everything, but another man, whose faith is weak, eats only vegetables. 3 The man who eats everything must not look down on him who does not, and the man who does not eat everything must not condemn the man who does, for God has accepted him. 4 Who are you to judge someone else's servant? To his own master he stands or falls. And he will stand, for the Lord is able to make him stand.

Acts 10:

9 About noon the following day as they were on their journey and approaching the city, Peter went up on the roof to pray. 10 He became hungry and wanted something to eat, and while the meal was being prepared, he fell into a trance. 11 He saw heaven opened and something like a large sheet being let down to earth by its four corners. 12 It contained all kinds of four-footed animals, as well as reptiles of the earth and birds of the air. 13 Then a voice told him, "Get up, Peter. Kill and eat." 14 "Surely not, Lord!" Peter replied. "I have never eaten anything impure or unclean."
15 The voice spoke to him a second time, "Do not call anything impure that God has made clean."
16 This happened three times, and immediately the sheet was taken back to heaven.

Acts 15:

5 Then some of the believers who belonged to the party of the Pharisees stood up and said, "The Gentiles must be circumcised and required to obey the law of Moses." 6 The apostles and elders met to consider this question...... 22 Then the apostles and elders, with the whole church, decided to choose some of their own men and send them to Antioch with Paul and Barnabas. They chose Judas (called Barsabbas) and Silas, two men who were leaders among the brothers. 23 With them they sent the following letter: The apostles and elders, your brothers, To the Gentile believers in Antioch, Syria and Cilicia: Greetings. 24 We have heard that some went out from us without our authorization and disturbed you, troubling your minds by what they said. 25 So we all agreed to choose some men and send them to you with our dear friends Barnabas and Paul-- 26 men who have risked their lives for the name of our Lord Jesus Christ. 27 Therefore we are sending Judas and Silas to confirm by word of mouth what we are writing. 28 It seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us not to burden you with anything beyond the following requirements: 29 You are to abstain from food sacrificed to idols, from blood, from the meat of strangled animals and from sexual immorality. You will do well to avoid these things. Farewell.

Hebrews 9:

10 They are only a matter of food and drink and various ceremonial washings--external regulations applying until the time of the new order.

Amen, UberLutheran!

-- Radagast

thereselittleflower · Feb 3, 2004

kosh said:
I have read in the Bible that eating pork and shellfish is prohibited by God Himself. From God's own mouth he commands this. So why do so many Christians that I have known throughout my life so blatantly ignore God's command? I was not even aware of this before I became a Christian, but now that I know, I have gievn up pork and shellfish and have asked God to forgive me for my ignorance.

I ask this question to my fellow Christians: are you aware of this law and if so then why to you ignore it? I'd really like to know, because it upset me greatly to know that so many of brothers and sister defy God's law.

Kosh

Who were these dietary laws given to? The Old Testament Jews . .

Are you Jewish?

Peace in Him!

thereselittleflower · Feb 3, 2004

Symes said:
Icystwolf

I would call on those who are against pork and shellfish, to be careful not to call on others and insult their culture. Naming a group of people, like symes, who ate pork as unfit for God is cowardly....that is in my opinion discrimination to chinese Christians.

PS:What ever happened to the "listen to your elders" ? It's so lacking in this forum....don't you recon?

Click to expand...

When God gave the ten commandments He did not say well this culture can break them or that culture does not need to follow them. I have never refereed to indigenous Australians as unclean or to Chinese as being unclean.

Synes . . .what does the 10 Commandments have to do with shellfish or pork?

Peace im Him!

Icystwolf · Feb 3, 2004

Symes said:
Icystwolf

When God gave the ten commandments He did not say well this culture can break them or that culture does not need to follow them. I have never refereed to indigenous Australians as unclean or to Chinese as being unclean.

Why are you so annoying, at being so out of context? Why is every reply of yours out of context?

It may pay to get your facts right before you come saying things like that.

When God says things are unclean He is not saying the people are so don't spin words, OK.

Symes, my facts are straight, and if they're not straight, they either don't come out or they're left to be straightened...unlike your which has been bent ever since.

Symes, no matter how many times we've proved you wrong, you only think your right by your character.......

I am probably your elder so give some respect yourself.

By your arguments....I doubt it. An elder is one in my opinion, one who gives a full proof. Your proof is all fragmented, incoherent and all out of context.

12volt_man · Feb 3, 2004

Had some crab cakes left over from the SuperBowl party the other night. I ate them for breakfast this morning in honor of this thread.

I_Praise_Him · Feb 3, 2004

12volt_man said:
Had some crab cakes left over from the SuperBowl party the other night. I ate them for breakfast this morning in honor of this thread.

LOL

Salvatore Gonzales · Feb 4, 2004

Holy Warrior said:
SG, I respect you for giving up pork as a sign of respect for God.
..............
If you want to follow the OT food laws, fair play to you. However, DON'T criticise others for not doing so. That's just not a dead-on thing to do.

There was no criticism intended. My intent was to call for
respect for promises to God made by others which you acknowledged.

Symes · Feb 5, 2004

It's what the Bible says that's important...

Amen, the Bible says not to eat pork so why go against what the good Book says?

ChrisB · Feb 5, 2004

The Bible also says

Exodus 21
17 "Anyone who curses his father or mother must be put to death.

Exodus 21
28 "If a bull gores a man or a woman to death, the bull must be stoned to death, and its meat must not be eaten. But the owner of the bull will not be held responsible. 29 If, however, the bull has had the habit of goring and the owner has been warned but has not kept it penned up and it kills a man or woman, the bull must be stoned and the owner also must be put to death.

Deuteronomy 25
11 If two men are fighting and the wife of one of them comes to rescue her husband from his assailant, and she reaches out and seizes him by his private parts, 12 you shall cut off her hand. Show her no pity.

Would you defend these positions?

dunlapr · Feb 5, 2004

I have scanned and read through the posts on this thread concerning pork and shell fish. Many in the Seventh Day Adventists movement follow the advice of Ellen G White on Dietary "laws" that she put forth. But Mrs White was not an inspired apostle. Jude 1:3 was written long befor Ellen G. White came on the scene.

Beloved, while I was giving all diligence to write unto you of our common salvation, I was constrained to write unto you exhorting you to contend earnestly for the faith which was once for all delivered unto the saints. {Jude 1:3}

The Law of Moses was taken out of the way Paul wrote of this.

Colossians 2:14

having blotted out the bond written in ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us: and he hath taken it out that way, nailing it to the cross;
or abolished at the death of Christ.

Paul also wrote these things

Romans 2:12
For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without the law: and as many as have sinned under the law shall be judged by the law;
Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it speaketh to them that are under the law; that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may be brought under the judgment of God:
because by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified in his sight; for through the law cometh the knowledge of sin.

Romans 3:19-20

But now we have been discharged from the law, having died to that wherein we were held; so that we serve in newness of the spirit, and not in oldness of the letter.
Romans 7:16

1 Timothy 4:1-4

1 But the Spirit saith expressly, that in later times some shall fall away from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits and doctrines of demons,
2 through the hypocrisy of men that speak lies, branded in their own conscience as with a hot iron;
3 forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God created to be received with thanksgiving by them that believe and know the truth.
4 For every creature of God is good, and nothing is to be rejected, if it be received with thanksgiving:

With the inspired writtings of the Apostle Paul in mind one can eat all the Pork Chops, Shrimp, and Catfish he wishes.

[/B] We are no longer under the Law of Moses.

thereselittleflower · Feb 5, 2004

Symes said:
It's what the Bible says that's important...

Click to expand...

Amen, the Bible says not to eat pork so why go against what the good Book says?

Symes

The OLD Covenant, in the OLD Testament, says not to eat pork . .

The NEW Covenant, in the New Testament says the same? ? ?

What does the bible say?

It is posted above, but I think it bears repeating so it is not missed:

1 Timothy 4:1-4

1 But the Spirit saith expressly, that in later times some shall fall away from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits and doctrines of demons,

2 through the hypocrisy of men that speak lies, branded in their own conscience as with a hot iron;

3 forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God created to be received with thanksgiving by them that believe and know the truth.

4 For every creature of God is good, and nothing is to be rejected, if it be received with thanksgiving:

I receive all with thanksgiving . .

The bible, in the NEW Testament says I can receive all with thankgiving, that nothing is to be rejected if received with thanksgiving . .

Because you believe that you cannot receive pork with thanksgiving, YOU have to reject it . . because whatever is not of faith is of sin . .

But if I receive that SAME food with thanksgiving that YOU reject, I have committed NO sin! for EVERY creature of God's is GOOD and NOTHING is to be rejected!

We are under the law of liberty!

Peace in Him!

Eating pork and shellfish is a grave sin.

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