Eating pork and shellfish is a grave sin.

Symes · Feb 16, 2004

Icystwolf

Symes, I've proved to you that your arguments are false, and scriptures out of context.

You haven't proved any to us....It would be interesting how you draw conclusions that our Bible study is so flawed?

Who else but the professional spinner, Ellen !

When you cannot come up with one Bible verse to say that pork is clean now and that all unclean foods that the Jews had been told not to eat are now clean. Then I will go on believing that we are not to eat unclean food. You have not and cannot do it.

educk · Feb 16, 2004

kosh said:
I have read in the Bible that eating pork and shellfish is prohibited by God Himself. From God's own mouth he commands this. So why do so many Christians that I have known throughout my life so blatantly ignore God's command? I was not even aware of this before I became a Christian, but now that I know, I have gievn up pork and shellfish and have asked God to forgive me for my ignorance.

I ask this question to my fellow Christians: are you aware of this law and if so then why to you ignore it? I'd really like to know, because it upset me greatly to know that so many of brothers and sister defy God's law.

This type of question is at the ethos of what is messed up in Christianity. Very few Christians understand the difference between the Old and the New Covenant God made with us. If you want to drag the Old Covenant into the New, then all you reduce Christianity down to, is updated Judiasim. What's the point of that? It's what Paul described would nullify Christ's death.

pmarquette · Feb 16, 2004

the experience of Peter at the house of cornelius , the ministry of Paul , the jerusalm counsel decided that the gentiles were not required to observe all the laws of the Jews prior to becoming christians ( books of romans and galatians ) .

there is wisdom in some countries in not eating pork where they are fed garbage .... and undercooked ... a source of parisites ; or not eating fish that are bottom feeders who acumulate pesticides , herbicides , mercury .... ; there is wisdom to isolating a sick person who is contagious .... the crux of what is being conveyed in Leviticus and Deuteronomy ....

there are references to witholding food , meat and drink as a sign of the end time apostasy of the church .... works v's grace ...
1Ti 4:3 Forbidding to marry, [and commanding] to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth.
Rom 14:14 I know, and am persuaded by the Lord Jesus, that [there is] nothing unclean of itself: but to him that esteemeth any thing to be unclean, to him [it is] unclean.
Mat 6:25 Therefore I say unto you, Take no thought for your life, what ye shall eat, or what ye shall drink; nor yet for your body, what ye shall put on. Is not the life more than meat, and the body than raiment?
Rom 14:17 For the kingdom of God is not meat and drink; but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost.

EdmundBlackadderTheThird · Feb 16, 2004

Symes said:
Icystwolf

When you cannot come up with one Bible verse to say that pork is clean now and that all unclean foods that the Jews had been told not to eat are now clean. Then I will go on believing that we are not to eat unclean food. You have not and cannot do it.

We have come up with many Symes, but you refuse to believe what they say and just explain them away. The vision Peter had was very specific and afterwards he realized that had a second meaning and want to a gentiles house to eat, a house where they would not have been keeping kosher. In 1 Tim we find that ALL CREATURES god created are good and nothing is to be refused, we Christ himself saying that what going into a man's mouth DOES NOT make him unclean but what comes out of it does. And yet you deny the very basic meanings of these verses. It is you who are not following the Bible in this case Symes, not us.

To top it off your assertion that the rest of the law isn't valid for us, only then ten ministry of death, means that we do not have to follow the food laws. You cannot even manage to agree with yourself on these issues. You have tried to explain how there is agreement but there is none, prior to the giving of the Law the Noachide convenant was in place and under that covenant EVERY LIVING thing was food. SO if we are to take you seriously then we have to look at things this way, the ten commandments are binding but the rest of the Law is not, well except for the food laws because...because...well there is no scripture to support you. You want us to provide verses that show that food is clean and we have. How about you provide scripture to prove that:

1. You can start a fire on the sabbath.
2. Cause cause people to work on the sabbath.
3. Trim the corners of your beard
4. Not wear tassles on the corners of your clothes
5. Wear mixed fabric clothing

You see Symes you cannot provide these verses. The doctrine you are espousing is not Biblical at all.

leecappella · Feb 16, 2004

Osel said:
New covenant replaced the old. Dietary laws are no longer necessary.

me: I will add to that: The New Covenant replaced the Old Covenant and not just parts of the Old....All of the Old!!! If you live according to the Law (note that the bible does not say Laws ) you are expected to keep all of the Law (note, not Laws!).

thereselittleflower · Feb 16, 2004

Symes said:
The Bible says unclean food is unclean. No where have we been told that unclean food is now clean. The passages you use here have been taken out of context.

Symes

You have never answered the questions posted in this post:

http://www.christianforums.com/showthread.php?p=1758635&postcount=183

How have I taken them out of context? I have provided lots of context, including historical (which is buried deeper in this thread and which you never gave an answer to other than you don't know . . . )

Peace in Him!

deu58 · Feb 16, 2004

hello Symes

Symes said
The Bible says unclean food is unclean. No where have we been told that unclean food is now clean. The passages you use here have been taken out of context.

Symes I really do not think I have ever seen you post even one verse in context!

yours in Christ
deu58

billwald · Feb 16, 2004

You can't point to one verse in Exodus through Deut that indicates the Mosiac Covenant applies to gentiles or has next world implicatons.

Symes · Feb 17, 2004

Symes I really do not think I have ever seen you post even one verse in context!

yours in Christ
deu58

Well wake up mate because it is there.

Skillz151 · Feb 18, 2004

Symes

I think your doing a great job. Keep up the good work with revealing the TRUTH to all. No matter how many people come up with their own Human assumptions keep telling and showing them what the Bible says.

EdmundBlackadderTheThird · Feb 18, 2004

Skillz151 said:
Symes

I think your doing a great job. Keep up the good work with revealing the TRUTH to all. No matter how many people come up with their own Human assumptions keep telling and showing them what the Bible says.

The Bible says:

1. Nothing that goes into a man's mouth can make him unclean
2. That all creatures God created are good and nothing is to be refused if accepted with thanksgiving.
3. That our prayers sanctify our food.
4. And that we dare not call unclean what God has called clean.

It is you and Symes who are promoting false doctrine and 1 Tim says that the teaching to abstain from foods is a doctrine of demons, those are not my words at all, those are directly from the Bible. You cannot show one place where we are still under the food laws according to the NT and in fact the whole line that you draw to say we have to keep sabbath excludes us from keeping the food laws. Your doctrine does not even agree with itself much less the Bible. There were no food laws until the old Law was given, and there are none now as they have been nailed to the cross.

leecappella · Feb 18, 2004

flesh99 said:
The Bible says:

1. Nothing that goes into a man's mouth can make him unclean
2. That all creatures God created are good and nothing is to be refused if accepted with thanksgiving.
3. That our prayers sanctify our food.
4. And that we dare not call unclean what God has called clean.

It is you and Symes who are promoting false doctrine and 1 Tim says that the teaching to abstain from foods is a doctrine of demons, those are not my words at all, those are directly from the Bible. You cannot show one place where we are still under the food laws according to the NT and in fact the whole line that you draw to say we have to keep sabbath excludes us from keeping the food laws. Your doctrine does not even agree with itself much less the Bible. There were no food laws until the old Law was given, and there are none now as they have been nailed to the cross.

me: I would also like to add that not only has the food laws been nailed to the cross, but the Law has been nailed to the cross. No matter how one chooses to break down the law into sections, as a whole, it (the Law) has been nailed to the cross with Christ. It has died!!

cactusj · Feb 18, 2004

You know, if the Holy Spirit isn't teaching Symes as he reads the scripture ????? then all our talk, quoting all the correct verses over and over will not open his heart to understand. He should never try to understand God's Word without God in the person of the Holy Spirit teaching him.One thing I learned long ago when I was saved was to pray for the Holy Spirit to be my teacher each and every time I read His Word. The Word is foolish to unbelievers. Yaul have done everything possible, with the direcrion of the Holy Spirit to show Symes what the Holy Spirit teaches each of us as we read and I believe you have done a job that any believer can see the truth IF they open their heart to the Holy Spirits teaching. Good Job.
In Him and He in me.

deu58 · Feb 18, 2004

hello Skilz151

Considering that the Present truth was written by a human being who was deceived into believeing she was receiving visions from Heaven I suggest you drop the human assumptions charge because everything you SDA's are posting here is the bible as interpreted from the SDA Spirit of Prophecy, Also I am sick and tired of the SDA claim of WE HAVE THE TRUTH AND YOU DO NOT.

Personaly at the risk of offending all, I think we should contact the moderators/administrator of CF and request that the SDA's be reclassified with the Jehovah's Wittnesses and the Mormons.

SDA's do not belive atonement was completed at the cross and is still on going, This is their investigative judgment doctrine.

SDA's beleive that Sunday worship is the Mark of the Beast which means that the day you worship has a bearing on your Salvation. You can lose your salvation by not worshipping on the right day,

Like the Jehovahs, the SDA's believe that Jesus is a Created being, the Arch Angel Michael, who was exalted by God to his present position.

Like the Mormons the SDA's have their own Prophet who claimed to have seen all these things and plenty more in visions received from God. She then instructed her followers to proselytize the Christian churches which she taught were fallen and are the Babylon harlot of revelation.

Ellen White taught that the SDA's are the 144,000 of revelation, In fact she thought she was one of the 144,000.

Ellen White taught that only those who accept her visions as truth and become Adventists themselves will be admitted into heaven, They beleive they are the remnant church that keeps the commandments of God spoken of in revelation. So beleiving Ellen G White is a prophet and following her instructions also plays a part in our salvation.

And there are plenty more reasons for these people to be reclassified with the Mormons and Jehovahs.

Actually Adventists may be in a class by themselves for I have never had a Jehovah or Mormon tell me I am lost if I do not Join them and adopt their views.

yours in Christ
deu58

Skillz151 · Feb 18, 2004

flesh99 said:
The Bible says:

1. Nothing that goes into a man's mouth can make him unclean
2. That all creatures God created are good and nothing is to be refused if accepted with thanksgiving.
3. That our prayers sanctify our food.
4. And that we dare not call unclean what God has called clean.

You are clearly mistaken friend.

1. But it surely can make you sick or kill you!
2. Your reading this wrong friend. Yes, If God made them then they are good. This does not mean that it is safe for you to eat.
3. The right food that God has given us to eat, yes.
4. God himself calls certain foods unclean! (Does not mean they are not Good animals, just not good for us to eat) Deuteronomy 14:8, "And the swine, because it divideth the hoof, yet cheweth not the cud, it is unclean unto you: ye shall not eat of their flesh, nor touch their dead carcass

Interesting reading:
http://www.amazingdiscoveries.org/amazingdiet/clean-unclean.htm

"Beloved, I wish above all things that thou mayest prosper and be in health, even as thy soul prospereth." III John verse 2

"Know you not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in ?you and which you have from God; and you are not your own. You are bought with a price." "Therefore, glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's". 1 Corinthians 6:19, 20

"If any man defile the body of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple you are." 1 Corinthians 3:17

"Whether, therefore, you eat or drink, or whatsoever ye do - do all to the glory of God". 1 Cor 10:31

Skillz151 · Feb 18, 2004

deu58 said:
hello Skilz151

Considering that the Present truth was written by a human being who was deceived into believeing she was receiving visions from Heaven I suggest you drop the human assumptions charge because everything you SDA's are posting here is the bible as interpreted from the SDA Spirit of Prophecy, Also I am sick and tired of the SDA claim of WE HAVE THE TRUTH AND YOU DO NOT.

Personaly at the risk of offending all, I think we should contact the moderators/administrator of CF and request that the SDA's be reclassified with the Jehovah's Wittnesses and the Mormons.

SDA's do not belive atonement was completed at the cross and is still on going, This is their investigative judgment doctrine.

SDA's beleive that Sunday worship is the Mark of the Beast which means that the day you worship has a bearing on your Salvation. You can lose your salvation by not worshipping on the right day,

Like the Jehovahs, the SDA's believe that Jesus is a Created being, the Arch Angel Michael, who was exalted by God to his present position.

Like the Mormons the SDA's have their own Prophet who claimed to have seen all these things and plenty more in visions received from God. She then instructed her followers to proselytize the Christian churches which she taught were fallen and are the Babylon harlot of revelation.

Ellen White taught that the SDA's are the 144,000 of revelation, In fact she thought she was one of the 144,000.

Ellen White taught that only those who accept her visions as truth and become Adventists themselves will be admitted into heaven, They beleive they are the remnant church that keeps the commandments of God spoken of in revelation. So beleiving Ellen G White is a prophet and following her instructions also plays a part in our salvation.

And there are plenty more reasons for these people to be reclassified with the Mormons and Jehovahs.

Actually Adventists may be in a class by themselves for I have never had a Jehovah or Mormon tell me I am lost if I do not Join them and adopt their views.

yours in Christ
deu58

Lol Oh please, I've been to the millions of websites that speak of her falacies.
I understand she has said some wild things, I admit they are shocking. She is also human. Are prophets suppose to be perfect in every way? But the SDA church does not follow E.G. White. We follow the Bible friends. We go by the Bible and not by E.G white. I still believe she was inspired because she leads people to the Lord and Bible. She does not claim we must follow her. She directs one to the Bible and God. I do not mention E.G. White at all either. I search the Bible only. I pray you will do the same.

Skillz151 · Feb 18, 2004

leecappella said:
me: I would also like to add that not only has the food laws been nailed to the cross, but the Law has been nailed to the cross. No matter how one chooses to break down the law into sections, as a whole, it (the Law) has been nailed to the cross with Christ. It has died!!

Which laws are you speaking of? Are you speaking of the 10 Commandments or of the Jewish traditional laws? If you say that All the "Law" of the Old testament died. Then we should be able to live as we want. That's what i'm understanding by this comment. Correct me if i'm wrong.

EdmundBlackadderTheThird · Feb 18, 2004

Noah was given every living creature to eat. The food laws were given to the Jews only. The clean and unclean designation refered to sacrifices only prior to the giving of the Law. Here is where your doctrine proves false as it does not agree with itself, you see you claim the ten commandments are seperate from the rest, the rest were nailed to the cross, so we should follow the ten still, oh yeah and those food laws lets get them down off the cross as well we can apply them. You see it makes no sense.

THe Bible is clear that nothing we eat is sin. The teaching to abstain from meats is a doctrine of demons. I think I will refer to it as such from now on. THe doctrine of demons that you are espousing is apostasy and should be treated as such. God called all living creatures food for Noah, gave dietary laws that followed the sacrifial designations to the Jews, gave us Christ, and nailed the Law to the cross. He even showed Peter a vision and rebuked him for calling unclean what God called clean. You are doing just that. Mark knew this and noted in his Gospel, after Christ said nothing that goes into a man's mouth can make him unclean, "thereby cleansing all foods". Did Mark get it wrong as well? You are denying the law of liberty and by teaching this doctrine of demons you put yourself under the curse of the Law, you give it power in your life. Righteosness has never been attained by following the Law and it is not possible to attain it through the Law. It is faith and grace and nothing more.

You add to God's words and say that when God says all creatures are good and nothing is to be refused that it doesn't mean that. This is commonly refered to as blasphemy at the very least. You add works to salvation and this is plainly taught against. It is by grace that we are saved and nothing can add to that.

EdmundBlackadderTheThird · Feb 18, 2004

Skillz151 said:
Which laws are you speaking of? Are you speaking of the 10 Commandments or of the Jewish traditional laws? If you say that All the "Law" of the Old testament died. Then we should be able to live as we want. That's what i'm understanding by this comment. Correct me if i'm wrong.

Christ gave us two commandments to follow:

1. Love the Lord you God with all your heart, all your mind, and all your strength

2. Love you neighbour as yourself

This is all we have to follow. The food laws are gone. They didn't exist before the Mosaic Law and they don't exist for us now. If you had bothered to read the thread you will see this argument that we promote lawlessness has been refuted again and again. Please go read the thread, you are bringing nothing new to the debate and it is boring to refute the same points over and over. Come up with something we haven't already refuted.

Skillz151 · Feb 18, 2004

I understand you'll mean well.

So do I. I am sincerely pleading with you to open your mind and hearts.

Just a small ex. before I go to school.

I will list links later, but did you know that scientist have done extensive research on which foods are healthy and which foods are not?

Well to sum it up they say that with the fish that have scales and fins are good to eat (healthy). But any other is not.

And among animals the pig is very unhealthy. Exactly what the Bible states some 2000 years ago. Interesting don't you think.

Well i'm off.. Cya

Oh yeah one more point just came to mind.

God claimed these animals to be UNCLEAN to eat back then. Are they now somehow clean and good for us to eat? No friends they are not.

Eating pork and shellfish is a grave sin.

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