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Not to mention the Society of St. Pius X and the Society of St. Pius V, both of which insist that it is the real Roman Catholic Church.And then there is The Old Catholic Church on the menu of "one trues".
You must be the only one on CF who imagines that.The Old Catholic Church is a protestant denomination that has nothing to do with the Catholic Church built by Jesus.
The Catholic church simply imported the Sanhedrin along with a new chosen people attitude. All the material churches became an unfortunate substitute for the spiritual kingdom established by Jesus.Jesus gave Simon alone the keys to the Kingdom.
You are confusing promises made to the leaders of the Church with promises made to all believers.
We each have different roles in the Church. We don't all have the same authority to teach and make rules.
That's what you get from protestantism, which is why there are thousands of denominations teaching contradictory doctrines.
The thread is about what the OP says it's about, and I'm responding to exactly what it said (incoherent claims to the contrary notwithstanding].
Applying your "logic" to the Pharisees of Jesus' day and you can see how baseless it is to assume truth/authority above God's word, from those assigned to be leaders of the church. The Pharisees failed miserably at this and Jesus called them out for forcing their traditions on the Church.One of the premises of the thread is that there is no source of incontravertible truth other than the bible, and I assume you agree with that premise. I asked how we know what books really belong in the bible, and you said we really don't but we need to trust the judgement of the body of Christ (not your exact words, but I think a fair paraphrase).
If we have to rely on the judgement of the body of Christ (which is the church) to determine what is scripture, but that judgement is not incontravertible because it's outside of scripture, then we don't really know what the true canon is.
On the other hand, if we really do know that the canon established by the church is truly incontrovertible, then we have a source of incontrovertable truth other than the bible. Q.E.D.
This is not going to be some long winded word game. It is easy.
1) God's Word is True, incontrovertibly true.
2) Scripture is God's Word.
3) Scripture is incontrovertibly true.
4) Prove another source of incontrovertible truth.
5) No other physical source of incontrovertible truth on earth has been proven.
By default, there is only Sola Scriptura.
Yes, there have been multiple threads on SS. The problem is that all the attacks on SS put the burden to prove there are no other source of incontrovertible truth on the holders to SS. How ridiculous is that? The burden is on those that believe in another source of incontrovertible truth. Despite being asked multiple times in other threads, no proof has been given for incontrovertible truth in any other earthly source.
So if you think anything but SS, I challenge you to prove to me another source of incontrovertible truth.
- Matthew 19:24 - In Aramaic, Camel = Rope ... http://www.biblicalhebrew.com/nt/camelneedle.htm
The verse is working off of a Jewish idiom of that era where you thread a rope through the eye of a needle. Has nothing to do with camels.
- NT Bible was written in Aramaic, not Koine Greek... meaning our best original copies, have already been translated out of Aramaic into Greek
You go first.....ok, I accept your apology and I apologize as well.Btw, I usually like your demeanor.
Oh, Catherine. If you only knew how wrong you are. The Bible most definitely attests to its origin--God's revelation given to man who recorded it, and that it is true. That is attested to, in point blank terms, in many, many verses.First you show me where any of that is written in Scripture.
Clue: it isn't.
Therefore this is unScriptural twaddle, aka a modern man made gospel.
The Catholic church simply imported the Sanhedrin along with a new chosen people attitude. All the material churches became an unfortunate substitute for the spiritual kingdom established by Jesus.
Oh, Catherine. If you only knew how wrong you are. The Bible most definitely attests to its origin--God's revelation given to man who recorded it, and that it is true. That is attested to, in point blank terms, in many, many verses.
You just in my opinion made Albion's point. Though you excerpted out of context the text of article 6 because the full text of it apparently helps prove Albion's point.http://anglicansonline.org/basics/thirty-nine_articles.html
See VI: of the sufficiency of the Holy Scriptures for salvation.
'Whatsoever is not read therein ... is not to be required of any man.'
QED
Yes to both questions. It was divinely revealed by the church.
I'm pointing out the incoherence of your argument. If you think that that constitutes an ad hominem attack against you then that's another example of the incoherence of your arguments.Well, the title and the OP are both about Sola Scriptura, so tell us what you have to add to the discussion of that subject, not including random potshots at other contributors, that is.
Jesus established the kingdom of heaven, in the failure to live up to his ideal, men established the church with many of the same evils as Judaism suffered from.
Very well, but I am having some difficulty deciding how to pick up where we left off when this is what came out of left field from you: "You are a good example of the irrational thinking of authoritarians."
I suppose that anything I say will be dismissed as either irrational or, if sensible, just the kind of thing a tyrant would say, right?
Wrong.
Jesus also established a physical Church on earth. He appointed leaders for his Church and he gave them his authority.
Matt 16
18And I tell you, you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.19I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.”
Matt 18:17
17If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church. And if he refuses to listen even to the church, let him be to you as a Gentile and a tax collector.
Acts 15
The Council’s Letter to Gentile Believers
22Then the apostles and elders, with the whole church, decided to choose some of their own men and send them to Antioch with Paul and Barnabas. They chose Judas (called Barsabbas) and Silas, men who were leaders among the believers. 23With them they sent the following letter:
The apostles and elders, your brothers,
To the Gentile believers in Antioch, Syria and Cilicia:
Greetings.
24We have heard that some went out from us without our authorization and disturbed you, troubling your minds by what they said. 25So we all agreed to choose some men and send them to you with our dear friends Barnabas and Paul—26men who have risked their lives for the name of our Lord Jesus Christ. 27Therefore we are sending Judas and Silas to confirm by word of mouth what we are writing.
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