Easiest Defense of Sola Scriptura

PeaceByJesus · Aug 31, 2016

Dave B said:
The Arc was a means of salvation as the Virgin Mary was....Bathsheba was the queen mother (Queen of King David and mother of King Solomon)interceded for her son and for others to King Solomon (her son) and Mary, the Queen Mother, intercedes (through Jesus) for us if we ask her to.

Where is this officially taught in Catholicism, or do you want us to debate interpretations which can be dismissed as unofficial anyway, and the real basis for assurance of doctrine for a RC is that of the veracity of his church?

You must understand that the early Christian Church was a continuation of Judaism, was started by Jews and did not cut off the Old Testament. Jews were taught by oral tradition and the Scriptures and knew about their past and heritage.

Indeed, but oral tradition was subject to correction by Scripture, as the Lord showed, (Mk. 7:2-16) and it was not oral tradition that the Lord reproved the devil and leaders and established His mission by, and which the gospel fulfills, but that which was written. And which is God's means of perpetuation.

AnticipateHisComing · Aug 31, 2016

Thursday said:
The Catholic Church chose the books of the New Testament with the guidance of the Holy Spirit. You can deny reality but you can't change it.

You deny the existence of scripture before the RCC threw out the trash.
You think the RCC earned some authority by collating scripture already written and circulation.

Tell me what great pivital change came when the RCC created the Bible. Do you think the truth not taught before this point in time? Did false teachings go away after?

Thursday · Aug 31, 2016

AnticipateHisComing said:
You deny the existence of scripture before the RCC threw out the trash.
You think the RCC earned some authority by collating scripture already written and circulation.

Tell me what great pivital change came when the RCC created the Bible. Do you think the truth not taught before this point in time? Did false teachings go away after?

The authority of the Church comes from Christ, who built the Church.

The Catholic Church existed long before the New Testament existed. In fact, by the time the last book of the New Testament was written the Church was on its fourth pope!

PeaceByJesus · Aug 31, 2016

PeaceByJesus said: ↑

And so your argument is that an infallible church is essential for ascertaining what is of God?

Thursday said:
That's what the bible teaches:

1 John 4
6We are from God, and whoever knows God listens to us; but whoever is not from God does not listen to us. This is how we recognize the Spirit of truth and the spirit of falsehood.

Matt 18:17
If they still refuse to listen, tell it to the church; and if they refuse to listen even to the church, treat them as you would a pagan or a tax collector.

1 Tim 3:15
so that if I am delayed, you will know how people must conduct themselves in the household of God. This is the church of the living God, which is the pillar and foundation of the truth.

Which means you have just nuked the church.

For the church actually began in dissent from those who sat in the seat of Moses over Israel, (Mt. 23:2) who were the historical instruments and stewards of Scripture, "because that unto them were committed the oracles of God," (Rm. 3:2) to whom pertaineth" the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises" (Rm. 9:4) of Divine guidance, presence and perpetuation as they believed, (Gn. 12:2,3; 17:4,7,8; Ex. 19:5; Lv. 10:11; Dt. 4:31; 17:8-13; Ps, 11:4,9; Is. 41:10, Ps. 89:33,34; Jer. 7:23) </p>

And instead they followed an itinerant Preacher whom the magisterium rejected, and whom the Messiah reproved them Scripture as being supreme, (Mk. 7:2-16) and established His Truth claims upon scriptural substantiation in word and in power, as did the early church as it began upon this basis. (Mt. 22:23-45; Lk. 24:27,44; Jn. 5:36,39; Acts 2:14-35; 4:33; 5:12; 15:6-21;17:2,11; 18:28; 28:23; Rm. 15:19; 2Cor. 12:12, etc.)

Thursday · Aug 31, 2016

PeaceByJesus said:
PeaceByJesus said: ↑

And so your argument is that an infallible church is essential for ascertaining what is of God?

Which means you have just nuked the church.

For the church actually began in dissent from those who sat in the seat of Moses over Israel, (Mt. 23:2) who were the historical instruments and stewards of Scripture, "because that unto them were committed the oracles of God," (Rm. 3:2) to whom pertaineth" the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises" (Rm. 9:4) of Divine guidance, presence and perpetuation as they believed, (Gn. 12:2,3; 17:4,7,8; Ex. 19:5; Lv. 10:11; Dt. 4:31; 17:8-13; Ps, 11:4,9; Is. 41:10, Ps. 89:33,34; Jer. 7:23) </p>

And instead they followed an itinerant Preacher whom the magisterium rejected, and whom the Messiah reproved them Scripture as being supreme, (Mk. 7:2-16) and established His Truth claims upon scriptural substantiation in word and in power, as did the early church as it began upon this basis. (Mt. 22:23-45; Lk. 24:27,44; Jn. 5:36,39; Acts 2:14-35; 4:33; 5:12; 15:6-21;17:2,11; 18:28; 28:23; Rm. 15:19; 2Cor. 12:12, etc.)

Your post is gibberish to me. Perhaps you can translate to English.

Rick Otto · Aug 31, 2016

Thursday said:
The authority of the Church comes from Christ, who built the Church.

The Catholic Church existed long before the New Testament existed. In fact, by the time the last book of the New Testament was written the Church was on its fourth pope!

These are myths propagated by redefinition and revision of history.

Rick Otto · Aug 31, 2016

Thursday said:
I'm a convert to Catholicism. I was once ignorant of Christian history, but I've learned much more.

Much of what I was taught about the Catholic Church when I was a Methodist turned out to be wrong.

The Henhouse Security Report issued by the foxes indicates there are no security problems in the henhouse.

AnticipateHisComing · Aug 31, 2016

Thursday said:
This is true. Jesus founded the Catholic Church and gave it his authority:

John 20
21Again Jesus said, “Peace be with you! As the Father has sent me, I am sending you.” 22And with that he breathed on them and said, “Receive the Holy Spirit. 23If you forgive anyone’s sins, their sins are forgiven; if you do not forgive them, they are not forgiven.”

Matt 16
17Jesus replied, “Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by flesh and blood, but by my Father in heaven. 18And I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not overcome it. 19I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven; whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven.” 20Then he ordered his disciples not to tell anyone that he was the Messiah.

Jesus did not found the RCC. He founded the Church which is the collection of all believers. He did institute certain authorities to his apostles. His apostles established some earthly authorities to "govern" the earthly churches, as there were multiple churches at the very beginning.

I hope it just a slip with your Jesus gave the CC his authority. To state that any church has the same authority as God is idolatry. Thou shalt have no other gods beside me. Now Jesus did give specific authorities to specific people. I have asked and you have not provided any proof that this authority can be transferred.

Mat 28: 18 Then Jesus came to them and said, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. 19 Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.”

Rick Otto · Aug 31, 2016

dqhall said:
If you claim a book written by human hands is the only authority of God, then your authority ended as the last book of the Bible was written. God has communicated with many since then, and they have testified that God communicated with them. Accomplished Biblical scholars have found contradictions in the Bible. You may Google "contradictions in the Bible," if in your ignorance you do not believe. God does not lie or contradict himself.

While I believe one may find God's way in the Bible, one cannot be guaranteed salvation by reading the Bible alone. Many read the Bible, few will be saved.

Right, but let's not make the mistake of forgetting those human hands were writing under divine inspiration.

Albion · Aug 31, 2016

These are myths propagated by redefinition and revision of history.

Correct. They're what sociologists call "functional myths" that are important for keeping the membership believing in the organization. It's interesting to note that, when we study the cults, it can be seen that almost all of them use such myths in one way or another.

Rick Otto · Aug 31, 2016

Thursday said:
The Catholic Church, which includes the Latin Right. There are actually 23 Rites that are in communion with the Pope that comprise the Catholic Church.

And then there is The Old Catholic Church on the menu of "one trues".

Thursday · Aug 31, 2016

AnticipateHisComing said:
Jesus did not found the RCC. He founded the Church which is the collection of all believers. He did institute certain authorities to his apostles. His apostles established some earthly authorities to "govern" the earthly churches, as there were multiple churches at the very beginning.

I hope it just a slip with your Jesus gave the CC his authority. To state that any church has the same authority as God is idolatry. Thou shalt have no other gods beside me. Now Jesus did give specific authorities to specific people. I have asked and you have not provided any proof that this authority can be transferred.

Mat 28: 18 Then Jesus came to them and said, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. 19 Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.”

Jesus clearly gave the Church his authority.

John 20
21Again Jesus said, “Peace be with you! As the Father has sent me, I am sending you.” 22And with that he breathed on them and said, “Receive the Holy Spirit. 23If you forgive anyone’s sins, their sins are forgiven; if you do not forgive them, they are not forgiven.”

Luke 10:16
"Whoever listens to you listens to me; whoever rejects you rejects me; but whoever rejects me rejects him who sent me."

Matt 16
18And I tell you, you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. 19I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.”

Thursday · Aug 31, 2016

Rick Otto said:
These are myths propagated by redefinition and revision of history.

You just don't want to accept the truth because you prefer lies.

What possible reason did the early Christian Leaders, many of whom were killed for their faith, have for fabricating anything?

Thursday · Aug 31, 2016

Rick Otto said:
And then there is The Old Catholic Church on the menu of "one trues".

The Old Catholic Church is a protestant denomination that has nothing to do with the Catholic Church built by Jesus.

Albion · Aug 31, 2016

Thursday said:
I'm a convert to Catholicism..

You really didn't need to tell us.

AnticipateHisComing · Aug 31, 2016

Thursday said:
In your opinion, why did Jesus change Simon's name to Rock?

Why did Jesus give Simon alone the keys to the Kingdom?

Is this a most lame attempt at proving apostolic succession being authoritative/instituted from Jesus?
You infer so much. You prove so little.

Thursday said:
Jesus promised the leaders of his Church that they would be led in ALL truth. Do you believe this?

Jesus said this to the first disciples. Jesus did not say the disciples would be inerrant in scripture. In fact Peter is noted by scripture as being in error and having to be corrected by divine vision.

chilehed · Aug 31, 2016

Albion said:
I take it that you don't think this thread ("Easiest Defense of Sola Scriptura") has anything to do with Sola Scriptura.

The thread is about what the OP says it's about, and I'm responding to exactly what it said (incoherent claims to the contrary notwithstanding].

Since you totally avoid any response to the substance of my posts, I take it that you have no coherent answer. Which again goes to prove what I kept saying in the other thread: sola scriptura is irrational and incoherent, and only incoherent thought can support it.

Thursday · Aug 31, 2016

AnticipateHisComing said:
Is this a most lame attempt at proving apostolic succession being authoritative/instituted from Jesus?

In other words, you can't answer these two questions:

Why did Jesus change Simon's name to Rock?

Why did Jesus give Simon alone the keys to the Kingdom?

Albion · Aug 31, 2016

Thursday said:
You just don't want to accept the truth because you prefer lies.

What possible reason did the early Christian Leaders, many of whom were killed for their faith, have for fabricating anything?

Are you of the impression that all the Apostles went to their deaths rather than renounce...the Roman Catholic Church that hadn't even formed up yet? Now, that's loyalty!

Thursday · Aug 31, 2016

Albion said:
Are you of the impression that all the Apostles went to their deaths rather than renounce...the Roman Catholic Church that hadn't even formed up yet? Now, that's loyalty!

All of the apostles were members of the Church, except for Judas.

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