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I am reading a book by Hugh Ross called "The Improbable Planet" that explains the why the exact position and timing of Earth's and our Galaxy's unique structure and history are essential to life. In it he quotes Hawking who said the rest of the universe is a waste and proves him wrong. Hawking was wrong some things but the press will never say so.Ultimately I don't think it matters.
If God can create a fully grown man, in an instantly grown garden.
Why can he not create an old looking universe?
We observe things the way we can see them at face value, not necessarily the way it is.
Either way, it doesn't debunk the creation story. Using it as an argument against it is flawed, and quite frankly unintelligent, if I may say so.
And I don't think Stephen Hawking is quite as smart as everyone seems to think he his.
He may be fairly smart, but I think we need to understand that he isn't all knowing.
What he says isn't truth automatically, just because the great and powerful Hawking said so.
6000, 13.7 billion. I don't care. I know God did it, I know the God of the bible is The God. There is no reason to put a pointless date on how old the universe is. Because it is pointless, it proves, or disproves, nothing else but how old it actually is.
If you proved 100% the earth was 6000 years old, there would still be Atheist.
if God wrote a message in the stars, the Atheist would say "Those clever Christians".
No amount of evidence will convince the unwilling.
Sad but true.
Setting the stars in place leads to speculation about pre- historic theory and speculationEarth verses the big bang is the epic, David and Goliath battle, of God’s Creation story. God created Earth first, then the ‘Big Bang’, ‘Let There Be Light!’. Atheist scientists hate this part of God’s Creation story and disallow the thought of earth being created apart from their ‘Big Bang’. The thing is, for us, one week’s time, creationists, the way God explains it, we have two separate events. Two separate events allows for Time Dilation, big time!, in God’s Creation of everything that exists.
God created the earth. Earth existed for a while before light was created by God. God ‘s ‘Let There Be Light!’ is the ‘Big Bang’ going off. All of a sudden, next to earth, was the mass of one septillion stars on the head of a needle. Some say that God is not powerful enough to accelerate a planet the size of earth to light speed. I say, God popping into existence the mass of one septillion stars on the head of a needle is, light speed for earth accomplished! The gravitational pull of the mass of one septillion stars, on the head of a needle, is enough force to put earth into light speed, immediately. Or God can simply have created earth into existence already traveling at the speed of light. Science tells us that empty space probably flowed out into existence in front of the Big Bang. There is earth, traveling at the speed of light, through empty space, riding the wave of empty space coming into existence. Surfs up Dude!
With the explosion of the big bang, now earth has a light source to revolve next to, and thus day and night, equaling the passage of time; or in other words, days going by and the passage of time. God’s clock, as well as our clock on earth, even scientists with theoretical starships, is our revolving earth past a light source. God did not put the sun and stars into earth’s sky until the fourth day of creation. For four days, the 'Big Bang' was earth's, day vs night, light source. Using Time Dilation, the earth, traveling at the speed of light, and the big bang, traveling at a much slower velocity, then billions of years of star formation can occur in four days. This is Time Dilation. It only makes sense for God to do it this way. The explosion of the ‘Big Bang’ needs time to cool off before God inserts earth into the ‘big bang’ Cosmos. Besides that, even traveling at the speed of light, light is going to need some time to travel the billions of miles from the stars to earths target area of our sun’s orbit. So earth traveling at, or near, the speed of light, only makes sense for God to do it this way, while billions of years of star formation come into existence, for every day/night rotation on earth.
After a couple days on earth, which equates to many billions of years at the lower velocity of the big bang, earth enters into the the big bang debris field. Stars have already been born, lived, went super nova, and died in this debris area. Remember, earth, traveling near the speed of light is only seeing days go by while the big bang Cosmos has already experienced many billions of years of elapsing time, due to Time Dilation. Earth is absorbing some of this, billions of years old, debris like bugs on a windshield. The reason earth looks five billion years old is due to this, bugs on a windshield, effect on young earth that was born before the big bang, traveling through the billions of years of debris of the big bang. Earth herself is only days old while the debris she is runing into and absorbing is billions of years old. This is Time Dilation.
Finally, earth is captured by our sun’s gravitational pull and imprisoned in our sun’s orbit, on the fourth day of creation. A couple days go by on earth and God put man on earth. And God said, ‘It is good!’.
Anything can happen when God and Time Dilation are involved.
Creationists are not asking atheist scientists to say that this is the way it happened. Creationists are only asking atheist scientists to confirm that seven days of creation by God is a plausable and acceptable theory.
Time dilation and space flight
Time dilation would make it possible for passengers in a fast-moving vehicle to travel further into the future while aging very little, in that their great speed slows down the rate of passage of on-board time. That is, the ship's clock (and according to relativity, any human traveling with it) shows less elapsed time than the clocks of observers on earth. For sufficiently high speeds the effect is dramatic. For example, one year of travel might correspond to ten years at home. Indeed, a constant 1 g acceleration would permit humans to travel through the entire known Universe in one human lifetime. The space travelers could return to Earth billions of years in the future. A scenario based on this idea was presented in the novel Planet of the Apes by Pierre Boulle.
Quoted From: Wikipedia Time Dilation
I am reading a book by Hugh Ross called "The Improbable Planet" that explains the why the exact position and timing of Earth's and our Galaxy's unique structure and history are essential to life. In it he quotes Hawking who said the rest of the universe is a waste and proves him wrong. Hawking was wrong some things but the press will never say so.
Amen, yes the thrill of the pursuit of knowledge, it is a wonder to me, and I am in awe of those who devote their lives in the dedicated manner they do. I believe that those who seek the Truth will find it. In my heart I encourage everyone in such things, thanksBob, it is good that you have set your mind on the eternal. Some of us are interested in how the temporal confirms the eternal. We do surrender to the falsehood that the Bible is a myth. Nor do we say that observed science false. Some of us believe there is an answer that torments so many. But if it remains a mystery so be it.
The idea that the earth was here before the big bang is certainly at strong variance with the evidence. I believe there is substantial evidence that the earth - like other planets - condensed out of a swirling cloud of matter. There is no known process for the synthesis of the heavier elements that make up the earth other than the fusion process inside stars. So, based on the evidence, and without assuming anything "magical", the most reasonable conclusion is that the earth was formed after the big bang from elements created within dead stars.Hello Strathos,
Atheist Cosmos scientists demand that earth came about from, and within, the 'Big Bang'. God's story of creation tells us that earth was here first and before He said, 'Let There Be Light!', which is what scientists see as the 'Big Bang'. So as long as you and I agree that earth was here before the 'Big Bang', we are cool.
Hi. I have no objection at for attempt to "reconcile" elements of the standard "scientific" model of the world with what we see in the Bible.I study quantum and string physics.
I used to participate in Christian chat rooms years ago and found that rather than witnessing to the unsaved who were there to learn (or just to fight), that some Christian without fail, would bring up evolution and everyone was off and running! Every single time. Forget about discussing sin and salvation. The atheists who believed in evolution were becoming more and more turned off by the Christians. I think the enemy uses this topic for division and to get the focus off Jesus and salvation.
Personally I believe that God created all. How he did it does not matter to me and is certainly not worth arguing with non believers because it is a major stumbling block to so many who already have a hard time with Christianity.
There is a lot of misunderstanding, and perhaps some intentional misrepresentation, by fundamentalists about this whole "it's just a theory" thing.I laugh when science tells us they know how we came to be and use the big bang to prove it, when the facts are that the big bag is a theory, and a theory is not factual....
Ultimately I don't think it matters.
If God can create a fully grown man, in an instantly grown garden.
Why can he not create an old looking universe?
We observe things the way we can see them at face value, not necessarily the way it is.
Either way, it doesn't debunk the creation story. Using it as an argument against it is flawed, and quite frankly unintelligent, if I may say so.
And I don't think Stephen Hawking is quite as smart as everyone seems to think he his.
He may be fairly smart, but I think we need to understand that he isn't all knowing.
What he says isn't truth automatically, just because the great and powerful Hawking said so.
6000, 13.7 billion. I don't care. I know God did it, I know the God of the bible is The God. There is no reason to put a pointless date on how old the universe is. Because it is pointless, it proves, or disproves, nothing else but how old it actually is.
If you proved 100% the earth was 6000 years old, there would still be Atheist.
if God wrote a message in the stars, the Atheist would say "Those clever Christians".
No amount of evidence will convince the unwilling.
Sad but true.
Hi mary,
You wrote:
While I agree with that statement, over here in the 'CHRISTIAN ONLY!' forums, we are not discussing with atheists or other non-believers.
God bless you,
In Christ, ted
I agree with you on the dog chewing the shoe example, but not on the mountains of evidence for the big bang. The dictionary gives other words for theory, such as, hypothesis, thesis, conjecture, supposition, speculation, none of them are factual meaning words, like theory they mean the same thing, "we THINK this is how" or "MAYBE it happened this way" and just like the big bang its all conjecture. No proof, no evidence, no fact. No human being was around to see it happen. God was though and as I also pointed out in my post, from the bible, he told us how it went down and there was not one word about a big bang, the earth was here first, and he made the universe around it on the 4th day, that was, according to the bible, 6000 years ago give or take, he rested on the seventh day, and the 7th thousand year will bring in the millennial reign of christ. the 7th thousand years, 7 in scripture is the number of completion. If as some believe it might have been 6 thousand years of creation, none of us from birth to death would rest a day as we would be waiting for the sabbath to arrive at the 7th thousand year and it would be a thousand year rest. But I clarified that with the Exodus 20:11 verse. BlessingsThere are mountains of evidence for the big bang theory. To say "it's just a theory" is like saying "it's just a theory that the dog chewed my shoe while I was at work today" even though:
Earth verses the big bang is the epic, David and Goliath battle, of God’s Creation story. God created Earth first, then the ‘Big Bang’, ‘Let There Be Light!’. Atheist scientists hate this part of God’s Creation story and disallow the thought of earth being created apart from their ‘Big Bang’. The thing is, for us, one week’s time, creationists, the way God explains it, we have two separate events. Two separate events allows for Time Dilation, big time!, in God’s Creation of everything that exists.
God created the earth. Earth existed for a while before light was created by God. God ‘s ‘Let There Be Light!’ is the ‘Big Bang’ going off. All of a sudden, next to earth, was the mass of one septillion stars on the head of a needle. Some say that God is not powerful enough to accelerate a planet the size of earth to light speed. I say, God popping into existence the mass of one septillion stars on the head of a needle is, light speed for earth accomplished! The gravitational pull of the mass of one septillion stars, on the head of a needle, is enough force to put earth into light speed, immediately. Or God can simply have created earth into existence already traveling at the speed of light. Science tells us that empty space probably flowed out into existence in front of the Big Bang. There is earth, traveling at the speed of light, through empty space, riding the wave of empty space coming into existence. Surfs up Dude!
With the explosion of the big bang, now earth has a light source to revolve next to, and thus day and night, equaling the passage of time; or in other words, days going by and the passage of time. God’s clock, as well as our clock on earth, even scientists with theoretical starships, is our revolving earth past a light source. God did not put the sun and stars into earth’s sky until the fourth day of creation. For four days, the 'Big Bang' was earth's, day vs night, light source. Using Time Dilation, the earth, traveling at the speed of light, and the big bang, traveling at a much slower velocity, then billions of years of star formation can occur in four days. This is Time Dilation. It only makes sense for God to do it this way. The explosion of the ‘Big Bang’ needs time to cool off before God inserts earth into the ‘big bang’ Cosmos. Besides that, even traveling at the speed of light, light is going to need some time to travel the billions of miles from the stars to earths target area of our sun’s orbit. So earth traveling at, or near, the speed of light, only makes sense for God to do it this way, while billions of years of star formation come into existence, for every day/night rotation on earth.
After a couple days on earth, which equates to many billions of years at the lower velocity of the big bang, earth enters into the the big bang debris field. Stars have already been born, lived, went super nova, and died in this debris area. Remember, earth, traveling near the speed of light is only seeing days go by while the big bang Cosmos has already experienced many billions of years of elapsing time, due to Time Dilation. Earth is absorbing some of this, billions of years old, debris like bugs on a windshield. The reason earth looks five billion years old is due to this, bugs on a windshield, effect on young earth that was born before the big bang, traveling through the billions of years of debris of the big bang. Earth herself is only days old while the debris she is runing into and absorbing is billions of years old. This is Time Dilation.
Finally, earth is captured by our sun’s gravitational pull and imprisoned in our sun’s orbit, on the fourth day of creation. A couple days go by on earth and God put man on earth. And God said, ‘It is good!’.
Anything can happen when God and Time Dilation are involved.
Creationists are not asking atheist scientists to say that this is the way it happened. Creationists are only asking atheist scientists to confirm that seven days of creation by God is a plausable and acceptable theory.
Time dilation and space flight
Time dilation would make it possible for passengers in a fast-moving vehicle to travel further into the future while aging very little, in that their great speed slows down the rate of passage of on-board time. That is, the ship's clock (and according to relativity, any human traveling with it) shows less elapsed time than the clocks of observers on earth. For sufficiently high speeds the effect is dramatic. For example, one year of travel might correspond to ten years at home. Indeed, a constant 1 g acceleration would permit humans to travel through the entire known Universe in one human lifetime. The space travelers could return to Earth billions of years in the future. A scenario based on this idea was presented in the novel Planet of the Apes by Pierre Boulle.
Quoted From: Wikipedia Time Dilation
"But about that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father.Matthew 24:36. No offence brother, but its not a good idea to date set.As Charlemagne was crowned king on December 25, 800 by Pope Leo the III so the day of Christ's coming will be on Christmas Day, 2060. If the rapture of the saints (1 Thessalonians 4:16-17) occurs seven years before the time of Christs coming the date of the rapture 12.25 2053. However Isaac Newton notes
There is a lot of misunderstanding, and perhaps some intentional misrepresentation, by fundamentalists about this whole "it's just a theory" thing.
From Scientific American:
Many people learned in elementary school that a theory falls in the middle of a hierarchy of certainty--above a mere hypothesis but below a law. Scientists do not use the terms that way, however. According to the National Academy of Sciences (NAS), a scientific theory is "a well-substantiated explanation of some aspect of the natural world that can incorporate facts, laws, inferences, and tested hypotheses." No amount of validation changes a theory into a law, which is a descriptive generalization about nature. So when scientists talk about the theory of evolution--or the atomic theory or the theory of relativity, for that matter--they are not expressing reservations about its truth.
In short, the "it's just a theory that hasn't been proven" line of reasoning is deeply misleading.
There are mountains of evidence for the big bang theory. To say "it's just a theory" is like saying "it's just a theory that the dog chewed my shoe while I was at work today" even though:
1. The dog was alone in the house and there was no evidence of a break-in;
2. The teeth marks on the shoes match the pattern of my dog's teeth;
3. My dog pooped out a shoelace the next day.
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