Earth Underwater?

[DerekZoolander]

This was inspired by a thread in the general apologetics section, and got me remembering about books long past...I read (I forget where) that there as a point in the earth's existence where it was actually covered in water. Then, supposedly, another planet or satellite hit it, and knocked the majority of the water into space, kickstarting the formation of land. The remaining chunk of the "impactor" (cant think of a better word) became the moon.

Is this a credible theory, or...something else? Was primal earth, billions of years ago, covered by a layer of water? And if so, was this the method of getting rid of it?

Thanks in advance to those who answer.

 

[PhantomLlama]

Never heard of that one before.

From a cursory glance, it looks like bunk. Water covering the entire planet would leave major traces in the geologic record, which are not present. That is how we know there wasn't a global flood.

 

[Bushido216]

It sounds like they're trying to explain the Flood this way or something.

But I imagine an asteroid large enough to get rid of that much water hitting the earth would leave some sort of trace.

 

[Arikay]

I dont believe water has ever covered the entire globe, but if it has, this appears to be standard creationist thinking. Kinda like the grand canyon, if one piece of evidence fits your idea, you dont look too much deeper and claim victory.

A global covering of water from an impact like that, would not be the flood of noah.

 

[Philosoft]

Hmm. Sounds vaguely Velikovskian. I'll have to check it out.

 

[ForeRunner]

I think he might be confusing the proto-earth with an earth covered in water.

As I understand it, at once point in its formation the earth wasn't quite solid, still being fairly molten having not cooled down yet. At this point there was a large impact that knocked of a large molten chunck that became the moon. Since neither hunk of matter was entirely solid, they settled into spheres before cooling into hard rock.

 

[DerekZoolander]

I don't think they were concerned with the biblical flood, but more with Genesis 1:2 "Now the earth was without form and void, and the spirit of God hovered over the surface of the waters." They said that primordial earth was covered in the stuff (didn't posit a source though), and that the planet sized impact got rid of the majority of it.


But anyways, I did some looking into this myself today, and have arrived at the same conclusion as the rest of you. Once again, thank you all for your posts, and I hope I didn't take up too much of your time.

Keep your stick on the ice.

 

[TruthTraveler]

It sounds like they're trying to explain the Flood this way or something.

But I imagine an asteroid large enough to get rid of that much water hitting the earth would leave some sort of trace.

Have you seen that huge underwater crator?

Some evolutions say it killed the dinosaurs.......................................

 

[TruthTraveler]

Look at pluto there is a layer of ice over it then under it there is water. Same with one of Jupiders moons..............

 

[Arikay]

there is liquid water on pluto, you are sure of this how?

Look at pluto there is a layer of ice over it then under it there is water. Same with one of Jupiders moons..............

 

[TruthTraveler]

No, not 100%.

Is one or the other.

I'll see what I can find.

 

[TruthTraveler]

Europa is another moon of Jupiter. Its ice-covered surface is thought to cover an ocean about 65 kilometers deep. This is 2 to 3 times as much water as is in all the earth's oceans.

Pluto has been in the news recently. There was a suggestion that it should not be classified as a planet. Pluto is a member of a recently discovered class of a large number of comet-like objects that cross Neptune's orbit. Pluto may well not even be the largest one of these. Like all comets, these objects contain a large amount of water ice. Pluto has a large moon, Charon. Charon orbits very closely to Pluto, within 8 Pluto diameters. The tidal forces between Charon and Pluto are huge and should cause liquid oceans and underwater volcanoes on Pluto and/or Charon like those volcanoes seen on Io. Thus, despite the fact that these bodies would, at first, seem to be desolate, cold objects far from the sun, they may well be teeming with life.

DANG! God is GOOD.

 

[Philosoft]

Where did you find that second quote?

 

[Bushido216]

Have you seen that huge underwater crator?

Some evolutions say it killed the dinosaurs.......................................

For some reason, I could have sworn that the meteor in the South Western U.S. did that (or was it Mexico, I forget which, but it is most certainly above ground).

 

[lucaspa]

Have you seen that huge underwater crator?

Some evolutions say it killed the dinosaurs.......................................

Not the same thing. The crator is at Chixilub in the Yucatan Penninsula. It happened 65 million years ago and contributed to the KT extinction. But the earth wasn't covered in water then, remember? All those land dinosaurs.

The one Derek is referring to would have happened 2-4 billion years ago. But we can't find any evidence supporting it. Someone posted about an impact about 4 billion years ago when the planet was still semi-molten that would have formed the moon.

As to Pluto, how do you know it is covered with water?

There is a moon of Jupiter (Triton I think) covered with ice beneath which there is liquid water. But that is there and not earth at any time in it's history.

 

[TrueCreation]

DANG! God is GOOD.

--Actually the physics of these tidal torques as a source of internal heating of such satellites is a considerably developed and well substantiated in the astrophysical and solar system dynamics literature.

Cheers,
-Chris Grose

 

[TrueCreation]

There is a moon of Jupiter (Triton I think) covered with ice beneath which there is liquid water.

--That would be Europa.

Cheers,
-Chris Grose

 

[TrueCreation]

This was inspired by a thread in the general apologetics section, and got me remembering about books long past...I read (I forget where) that there as a point in the earth's existence where it was actually covered in water. Then, supposedly, another planet or satellite hit it, and knocked the majority of the water into space, kickstarting the formation of land. The remaining chunk of the "impactor" (cant think of a better word) became the moon.

Is this a credible theory, or...something else? Was primal earth, billions of years ago, covered by a layer of water? And if so, was this the method of getting rid of it?

Thanks in advance to those who answer.

--I don't know about a primordial earth being covered in a liquid water ocean. I know that the early earth must have been a molten mass, characterized by a 'global magma ocean' which is often referred to in the geochemical literature and in just about every discussion of the primordial earth and its formation in the geological literature. This may have been the mix-up. There may have been a massive protoatmosphere of water superposing the global magma ocean, but I don't know about an ocean.

--It is hypothesized that the moon originated as a result of a large impact of a mars-sized planetesimal in the latter stages of earths accretion, but the only trace of such an event is the moon itself and a slightly altered chemical composition of the Earth's mantle.

--The impact of this planetisimal wouldn't have 'jump-started the formation of land'. The formation of the continents, as well as differentation of the core and mantle is the result of convection and geochemical fractionation of incompatible elements (eg. lithophile elements which have a tendency to concentrate in the continental crust, or are 'buoyant' relative to the surrounding mantle composition.)

--If indeed the primordial earth were covered with a global ocean of water, I presume that most of it was either removed by regassing of the earth, or simply was not removed (in substantial quantities). The formation of land and other such masses with varying compositions would elevate themselves in accordance with isostasy creating primitive oceans as soon as the continents were formed and the possibly when the wilson cycle initiated. Either that or it excaped to space, but I don't think it is theorized that it was a global ocean of liquid water.

Cheers,
-Chris Grose

 

[Chi_Cygni]

Ok, a few solar system corrections are in order.

Europa satellite of Jupiter is the one suspected of a liquid water ocean below a frozen surface.

Triton satellite of Neptune has geysers of liquid nitrogen. Also has a retrograde orbit and is almost undoubtebly a captured Kuiper Belt Object (KBO).

Pluto (and Charon) are very similar objects to Triton. They are all KBO's.

Pluto and Charon are NOT in posession of liquid surfaces. Their masses are way too small for any substantial tidal heating. Actually they are already tidally locked to each other.

A quick note on the Moon formation theory. It would have completely homogenised the Earth making it molten. Just think of the kinetic energy of an object about the size of Mars hitting the Earth at a velocity of more than 30 km/s. So no altered composition of the Earth's mantle could be measured. Prior information would have been erased.

 

[TrueCreation]

A quick note on the Moon formation theory. It would have completely homogenised the Earth making it molten. Just think of the kinetic energy of an object about the size of Mars hitting the Earth at a velocity of more than 30 km/s. So no altered composition of the Earth's mantle could be measured. Prior information would have been erased.

--The heat generated from an impact of a mars-sized planetesimal could potential raise the average temperature of the earth by 7500 K if all the energy were converted into heat. This along with the other heating mechanisms such as short lived radioisotopes and gravitational potential energy from core-mantle differentiation would certainly have melted the earth. There are unanswered problems with the hypothesis though, assuming such heat generation. It would cause a highly chemically fractionated planet with a depleted mantle and enriched crust, which is not observed. The resultant viscosity (by a function of heat) of the mantle would make geochemical fractionation likely. It is theorized that rapid mantle convection in the magma ocean would keep crystals in suspension, but if the continents were also formed around this time, it is likely that fractionation would be efficient. Nevertheless, if any substantial amount of fractionation occurred subsequent to the impact of the planetisimal, a slightly altered chemical composition of the mantle would be expected. Direct sampling of the magma ocean and the mantle existing at that time is impossible for geochemical analysis, so we can only hypothesize.



Cheers,

-Chris Grose