Early Christian Doctrine

[Cajun Huguenot]

I thoroughly enjoyed reading J.N.D. Kelly’s book Early Christian Doctrine. I found it to be very informative and consider every minute I spent reading, underlining and researching what I read to be time well spent.

This is not an easy book to read and it can be confusing, because the Early Church Fathers arguments/treatises can be confusing as well. I crawled through this book and still I’m not confident that I understand all that Kelly brought up, but I did learn a lot and look forward to reading more of the writings of the Fathers themselves and books on them.

My readings in the Fathers, so far, have shown me that modern Evangelicals need to know something of the Fathers and how they relate to us as our elder brothers in the Lord our God. The Christians Church (past, present, future) is an organic unity. Still, Evangelicals see no need for knowing, nor do they care what the Fathers believed or taught. I believe they are impoverished and ignorant because of this. They also have a grossly truncated understanding of the Church. For most Evangelicals “that old time religion” only goes back a generation or two (if that much). Considering that the New Covenant Church began 2,000 years ago (50 generations) that is pathetic.

Roman Catholics do, far more than Protestants, understand the organic unity of the church. They believe that what the Fathers have to say is important. But my readings of the Fathers and about the Church Fathers have shown me that the Roman Catholic Church claims too much from the Fathers. Roman Catholics understand that the Church is one --past, present and future—but I find that they try to make the Fathers conform to their current teachings, and on many points, certainly not all, they have to distort or exaggerate what was taught or believed by the Fathers to justify some current teachings and practices that I believe to be unbiblical.

Coram Deo,
Kenith

 

[GrinningDwarf]

I'm working through Early Christian Doctrines right now myself!! Like you say, it's incredible to read the development of various doctrines that we (or I, anyway) have always kinda taken for granted.

I'm trying to do something about this in my church. We're just a tiny little, non-denominational country church. I'm an elder in it, and my primary jobs right now are to teach adult Sunday school (alternating with the other elder) and to fill in for the pastor in the pulpit on occaision. My topic for last week's Sunday school lesson was 'Sola Scriptura'. My topic for next week's lesson is 'Creeds, Confessions, and Catechisms'. I'm trying to fill in some of our missing church heritage.

 

[Cajun Huguenot]

I'm working through Early Christian Doctrines right now myself!! Like you say, it's incredible to read the development of various doctrines that we (or I, anyway) have always kinda taken for granted.

I'm trying to do something about this in my church. We're just a tiny little, non-denominational country church. I'm an elder in it, and my primary jobs right now are to teach adult Sunday school (alternating with the other elder) and to fill in for the pastor in the pulpit on occaision. My topic for last week's Sunday school lesson was 'Sola Scriptura'. My topic for next week's lesson is 'Creeds, Confessions, and Catechisms'. I'm trying to fill in some of our missing church heritage.

I found it to be very informative and just loved it.

Kenith

 

[AndOne]

My readings in the Fathers, so far, have shown me that modern Evangelicals need to know something of the Fathers and how they relate to us as our elder brothers in the Lord our God. The Christians Church (past, present, future) is an organic unity. Still, Evangelicals see no need for knowing, nor do they care what the Fathers believed or taught. I believe they are impoverished and ignorant because of this. They also have a grossly truncated understanding of the Church. For most Evangelicals “that old time religion” only goes back a generation or two (if that much). Considering that the New Covenant Church began 2,000 years ago (50 generations) that is pathetic.

What a great statement - I completely agree with you on this, Kennith. Thanks for posting this - I'll tack this one on to my long list of books already waiting to be read!

 

[Cajun Huguenot]

What a great statement - I completely agree with you on this, Kennith. Thanks for posting this - I'll tack this one on to my long list of books already waiting to be read!

Hey Behe's Boy,

I know what you mean. I too have a very long list of "wanna read" books.

In Christ,
Kenith

Ps: I'm pulling for the Seminoles tonight. I gotta stick with the Southern teams in Bowl games.

 

[AndOne]

Ps: I'm pulling for the Seminoles tonight. I gotta stick with the Southern teams in Bowl games.

There's always next year.... (My favorite saying these past few years...)

 

[GrinningDwarf]

There's always next year.... (My favorite saying these past few years...)

The mantra of Cubs fans worldwide!! (I know!! I used to live in Chicago-land.)

 

[Cajun Huguenot]

There's always next year.... (My favorite saying these past few years...)

Well, I was sorry to see it happen, but at least it tookum a long time to do it.

I am just happy LSU did so well -- You aint a fan of that other team are you?

Kenith

 

[SaintPhotios]

I'm Eastern Orthodox, and I will still say that J.N.D. Kelly's book is one of the best pieces of patristic literature I have ever come across. I think with few exceptions, he presents the Church Fathers in a very objective and unbiased manner. Anyone can read a book with their own slant... but I will warn you, this book eventually led to my conversion to Orthodoxy. Haha, not at all what Mr. Kelly had in mind I'm sure.

 

[BBAS 64]

Good Day,

I agree I enjoyed the time I spent reading this work....

Reading the footnotes?? I have not figured out how to do that.

In Him,

Bill

 

[Cajun Huguenot]

I'm Eastern Orthodox, and I will still say that J.N.D. Kelly's book is one of the best pieces of patristic literature I have ever come across. I think with few exceptions, he presents the Church Fathers in a very objective and unbiased manner. Anyone can read a book with their own slant... but I will warn you, this book eventually led to my conversion to Orthodoxy. Haha, not at all what Mr. Kelly had in mind I'm sure.

Kelly is an Anglican and I'm sure he knew it would dampen our view of modern Evangelical Protestantism.

I love Kelly's book. I've also been reading a good bit in the Early Church Fathers (Got 38 volumes for $200 from CBD a few years back). I don't see myself going to the EO folk anytime soon.

With that said, I do find that my respect for the Early Church Fathers is great and I am taking a serious look at Episcopacy and Apostolic succession. This study may or may not change how I understand church government, but I don't see it having much influence outside of that narrow spectrum of my views.

In Christ,
Kenith

 

[GrinningDwarf]

For anybody whose interested...I received the CBD pastor's catalogue in the mail the other day, and this book is available for $7.99, down from a regular price of $25, and about half what I paid for it two years ago.

(When I pointed this out to my wife, she took one look at the catalogue and said something like "Where did you get that?! I thought I threw it away!"

I replied, "It was sitting on the table. What...were you going to throw it away so I wouldn't be tempted by 'deals' like this?"

"Exactly."

"Well don't worry about this...I already have it."

"It's not this I'm worried about. It's that big church fathers set you keep drooling over.")

 

[xapis]

For anybody whose interested...I received the CBD pastor's catalogue in the mail the other day, and this book is available for $7.99, down from a regular price of $25, and about half what I paid for it two years ago.

I noticed this last month and put it on my short list (which is just above my long list).

(When I pointed this out to my wife, she took one look at the catalogue and said something like "Where did you get that?! I thought I threw it away!"

I replied, "It was sitting on the table. What...were you going to throw it away so I wouldn't be tempted by 'deals' like this?"

"Exactly."

"Well don't worry about this...I already have it."

"It's not this I'm worried about. It's that big church fathers set you keep drooling over.")

This sounds too much like the conversations at my house. Are you sure the two of us don't have some sort of parallel universe thing going on?

 

[SaintPhotios]

I've also been reading a good bit in the Early Church Fathers (Got 38 volumes for $200 from CBD a few years back). I don't see myself going to the EO folk anytime soon.

Ahhh ... you got the Phillip/Schaff set? Good stuff, I got that about a year ago. I can't believe how much the price has gone down over the years.

This study may or may not change how I understand church government, but I don't see it having much influence outside of that narrow spectrum of my views.

Ehh.... well maybe not. But I can't see how anyone that reads the Church Fathers isn't strongly convinced of tradition and real presence. I don't know how much you've read... but I recommend the Eastern Fathers. It has nothing to do with my being Orthodox, the Western Fathers just seem to be a little too heavily influenced by Augustine. They don't all agree with him necessarily, but just from a literary stance. It just feels like you're reading Augustine.