early Christian creeds in context -- question

[archer75]

So, the Apostles' Creed and the Nicene creed are a lot older than anyone on this forum.

Does anyone have any particular knowledge about how they -- particularly the Nicene Creed -- were effective in their original times? I know one function was to clearly state the orthodox position on certain matters. But how did that work with all the Christians who weren't bishops? Is there any documentation of how the Creeds trickled down in a meaningful way from bishop to priest to layperson?

 

[Chesterton]

I think from the beginning they were intended for everyone who would call themselves Christian.

 

[archer75]

I think from the beginning they were intended for everyone who would call themselves Christian.

Right, but plenty of people couldn't read and so on. So I meant: does anyone know anything about the practical matter of "spreading" the Nicene Creed among Christians once it had been finalized?

 

[Chesterton]

Right, but plenty of people couldn't read and so on. So I meant: does anyone know anything about the practical matter of "spreading" the Nicene Creed among Christians once it had been finalized?

Oh I see what you're saying. Well I don't know enough, except that earlier creeds were recited at baptism. I don't know when they became part of the liturgy, but if the new creed were to be said at baptism it would have come down through priests that way at least. Plus I'm sure it would have been a big topic of conversation anyway, what with it coming from a big meeting of worldwide Christianity, and the controversies that were going on, you know.

 

[GreekOrthodox]

As Chesterton said, the main way that information got spread was from the councils to the bishop then to the priests in their diocese. As bishops reduced the wide variation of liturgies and consolidated them, the creeds and other universal parts, such as the Lord's prayer, of the services were incorporated into the remaining services. The Apostles Creed, for example, was used in an older form called the Old Roman Symbol as a statement of faith when someone was baptized. It was fairly unique to the west and never was adopted by eastern churches.

 

[Ken Behrens]

The verbiage that we find there was usually added at the end of a long debate about other possibilities. They thus served to separate those who were considered proper Christians from those who stubbornly held on to positions that were deemed wrong. With a little research, you can usually find the opposite statement in history, and the effect it had on some church. Like you might wonder about "maker of heaven and earth" until you read about the "demiurges" of gnosticism. Why is Jesus "dead"? - the Moslems still claim today He was not. "of the substance of the Father" comes as part of the gradual realization that Jesus in God. This is just three I know off the top of my head.

 

[ViaCrucis]

So, the Apostles' Creed and the Nicene creed are a lot older than anyone on this forum.

Does anyone have any particular knowledge about how they -- particularly the Nicene Creed -- were effective in their original times? I know one function was to clearly state the orthodox position on certain matters. But how did that work with all the Christians who weren't bishops? Is there any documentation of how the Creeds trickled down in a meaningful way from bishop to priest to layperson?

Worship, presumably. The ongoing shape of the liturgy would have been deeply influenced by the Creed, the constituent elements of Christian corporate worship molded by theology as it had always been, it would have filtered through the hymns, the homily, the prayers, etc. At some point the Creed was inserted into the Liturgy itself, though I don't know when this was, but this has remained unchanged since in the East. The Eastern Churches only recite the Nicene Creed, whereas the West recites the Apostles' Creed (there are times during the year where the Nicene Creed is read instead, and on Trinity Sunday the Quicumque Vult or Athanasian Creed is read).

But the way which most laity have received the theology and teaching of the Church is in its regular, ordinary worship. The people participating in the gathered worship of the Church: singing hymns, praying prayers, and hearing the word preached. Which is why it is always important that our worship be theologically informed properly--theologically impotent or errant hymns and prayers can and will teach the people false things leading them to faulty and false theology and belief. That's what the axiom, Lex Orandi, Lex Credendi means, the law of prayer is the law of belief; how we worship shapes what we believe.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[Ken Rank]

So, the Apostles' Creed and the Nicene creed are a lot older than anyone on this forum.

Does anyone have any particular knowledge about how they -- particularly the Nicene Creed -- were effective in their original times? I know one function was to clearly state the orthodox position on certain matters. But how did that work with all the Christians who weren't bishops? Is there any documentation of how the Creeds trickled down in a meaningful way from bishop to priest to layperson?

You used the word "orthodox," which is adhering to what is commonly accepted. In the case of the Nicene Creed, in at least one area it established the Orthodoxy. What you had was a split in the early church over the deity question. Arianism was on the rise and there was a growing lack of continuity in the message itself. The Nicene Creed, whether we agree with it or not, created a solid position that would act as the view of the Church. In essence, the Creed developed unity.

 

[Shane R]

Is there any documentation of how the Creeds trickled down in a meaningful way from bishop to priest to layperson?

Through catechetical lectures. Perhaps the best example are those of Cyril of Jerusalem. A phrase, clause, or sentence would be taught on in a particular session until all had been taught. Then the adult catechumen was prepared for baptism, having learned the faith of the church.

 

[Paul Yohannan]

Right, but plenty of people couldn't read and so on. So I meant: does anyone know anything about the practical matter of "spreading" the Nicene Creed among Christians once it had been finalized?

They were and are recited in the liturgy of Orthodox, Catholic, Anglican and traditional Protestant churches.

 

[hedrick]

There was a tradition of using creeds at baptism, and presumably during catechetical instruction before baptism. In its current form the Apostle's Creed dates to the 8th Century, but it is based on much earlier creeds. Apparently the exact wording differed from place to place. There's a legend that it goes back to the Apostles, but that's not very likely.

The Nicene Creed was created by a council called to deal with the Arian heresy. As such, its primary goal was to codify the agreements of that council. However it seems to have been based on a baptismal creed. Eusebius of Caesarea is sometimes understood as claiming that it was based on the creed as said in Caesarea. However it's not so clear that this is what he meant, or that if it was, he was right.