Ear piercing/made in God's image/"improving His creation"/?

John Davidson said:

Piercing is grooming your body. Its like putting icing on a cake.

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Painfully wrong. Any time you open the skin, you take
a chance on infection and disease. Grooming never
draws blood.

pat34lee said:

Painfully wrong. Any time you open the skin, you take
a chance on infection and disease. Grooming never
draws blood.

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See post #46, re. a verse someone quoted.

faroukfarouk said:

See post #46, re. a verse someone quoted.

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Look at #59, a post of mine.

tuliplane said:

What is the person who doubts struggles with OCD, doubting their motives a lot? It seems that so many things can then become sin if you aren't sure one way or the other.

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OCD is a name man gave to a set of observed symptoms; but it is not above the Name Of Jesus; it's like 'dark matter' or 'dark energy' - a name to describe something that the Godless world does not understand and can not heal. the Good News is that you don't have to know everything about OCD to receive deliverance and healing from it; what you focus on you magnify in your life - so the more you study OCD, the more difficult it will be to overcome it; focus on what the NT says about healing instead, and as you magnify this area of God's already-accomplished work through Jesus, OCD will have to 'bow its knee' and flee (Php 2:5-10).

http://moorelife.org/listseries.php?xml=rss/ReceivingAndMinisteringHealing.xml
http://moorelife.org/listseries.php?xml=rss/ReceivingAndMinisteringHealing2.xml
http://www.awmi.net/audio/audio-teachings/#/awm_1036a_atonement.mp3
http://www.awmi.net/audio/audio-teachings/#/awm_1033a_blessed.mp3

the cure for doubt (and 'doubt' is the core of OCD) is simple to understand, but often difficult to implement - it's all about what you focus on (Jos 1:8). if you drive a car, you'll need to focus on the road ahead; you also have to glance at the rear view mirror, the instrument cluster, the signs on the sides of the road, etc. - but you must focus on the road ahead if you want to avoid an accident. a Christian's focus shouldn't be on 'sin', but on being led by God (Rom 8:1-17) - we aren't smart enough to apply the multitude of God's laws with our own intellect and understanding; only He can do that - and since He will never lead us to transgress His laws, if we follow His leading as confirmed by scripture (rather than trying to understand and apply scripture to decide for ourselves what is 'sin' and what is not), then we will 'sin' less as a byproduct of fellowship with Him rather than as a means to achieve fellowship with Him - focus on fellowship with God that's not based on our performance will result in a reduction of sin as we recognize and follow His leading, whereas focus on the law instead of fellowship through grace will actually strengthen sin (1Co 15:56) - so trying to decide if something not specifically noted as sin in the Bible is sin or not will tend to produce confusion; where as focusing on being led by Him and following peace (Col 3:15) will produce clarity.

faith is believing what God has said above all other reports, and His word does not change; so if you focus on God's word instead of what the world and your 5 senses are telling you, then doubt won't be able to gain a foothold (Pro 4:20-27).

Happy is he that condemneth not himself in that thing which he alloweth.

faroukfarouk said:

See post #46, re. a verse someone quoted.

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To use the God ordained, circumcision ceremony and the symbolic ear piercing ceremony of Exodus 21 as support for doing what ever takes our fancy to our bodies, is not handling God's word with the seriousness it calls for.
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afishamongmany said:

To use the God ordained, circumcision ceremony and the symbolic ear piercing ceremony of Exodus 21 as support for doing what ever takes our fancy to our bodies, is not handling God's word with the seriousness it calls for.
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#46, a reasonable answer to a reasonable question, previously put.

It is not to be expected that there is going to be 100% agreement about everything; therein lies the beauty of Romans 14 Christian liberty.

Hello faroukfarouk,
I find this so sad.
I'm not speaking of your zeal for body piercings (post#52 is my last comment on that topic).
What makes me sad is the misusing of God's word as though it was a bunch of fig leaves to be waved when it gets a bit too warm. Exodus 21:6 has nothing to do with 'enhancing' human appearance and to use it in such a discussion is irresponsible fig leaf waving.
The passage at the beginning of Exodus 21 speaks of a God ordained ceremony whereby someone publicly and symbolically declares that they willingly choose to remain a slave. It is profoundly prophetic and should be studied and meditated on in conjunction with Psalm 40:6-8 and Hebrews chapter 10.
The same can be said for your waving of Ezekiel 16:12. This verse is not a posting on a fashion forum. It is part of a weighty, vividly illustrated discourse by God on his gracious goodness to his people and their wicked unfaithfulness.

Praise Our Father indeed for Romans chapter 14 and our liberty in Christ our Lord. Our liberty is also a responsibility to be taken seriously and God's word should also be taken seriously by those who name his Name.
From James 1,
For if anyone is a hearer of the word and not a doer, he is like a man who looks intently at his natural face in a mirror. 24 For he looks at himself and goes away and at once forgets what he was like. 25 But the one who looks into the perfect law, the law of liberty, and perseveres, being no hearer who forgets but a doer who acts, he will be blessed in his doing.

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God wants us to live in freedom. He does not want us to live our lives adding crosses to our burdens that He never intended for us to bear. There is a reason why Jesus summed up over 600 commandments into just two commandments. They can really help put in perspective other things in the Bible, our relationships with God and man, and in our own consciences.

Can you have pierced ears and still love the Lord your God with all your heart, soul, mind, and strength?

Can you have pierced ears and still love your neighbor as yourself?

There are many things that Christians wrestle with as matters of conscience where the answers to the questions above could not possibly be "yes" in light of who God is or our call to love our fellow man, but I think that the question of having ear piercings could be answered with a resounding yes.

I am not in any way a licentious person--in fact I take such a hard line on sin that twice I have been accused of being a legalist (specifically related to abstaining from illegal drugs and premarital sex). But it is for freedom that God has set us free. While the Holy Spirit would desire to lead us into liberty in an area of our lives, sometimes we can have received such muddled teaching over the years, that, our flesh, through our minds, is replaying the bad teaching and condemning us. Ironically, while we feel that we are trying to honor God, the temptation then becomes pandering to our flesh because of the bad teaching.

We are not free when we live in the flesh and we are not free when we live by the law--whether law stated in the Bible or law that is the invention of men. The bible says to "walk after the Spirit so that we will not gratify the desires of the flesh."

It sounds like you are doing such a great job looking at the issue from various angles. I hope that you will experience peace through the Holy Spirit to be able to get your ears pierced. I think you will still be able to love and honor God and love your neighbor with pierced ears!

Hannah Eckes said:

I hope that you will experience peace through the Holy Spirit to be able to get your ears pierced.

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Lots of Godly Christian women seem to be able to do this easily anyway.

Hannah Eckes said:

I think you will still be able to love and honor God and love your neighbor with pierced ears!

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Well, exactly! I would have thought so, anyway.

shelley1952 said:

...my mom said if we were meant to wear pierced earrings we would of been born with the holes in our ears.

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shelley1952:

God bless the memory of your mom.

What do you think of the logic of what was said to you? Maybe it's similar to the assertion: If God had intended us to swim, He would have given us web feet?

Anyway, in Ezekiel 16.12 the Lord Himself is recorded as giving Zion earrings (and even a nose ring)...

Blessings.

Hannah Eckes said:

Can you have pierced ears and still love the Lord your God with all your heart, soul, mind, and strength?

Can you have pierced ears and still love your neighbor as yourself?

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Hannah Eckes:

PS:

The Lord Himself is recorded as having given earrings to Zion in Ezekiel 16.12.

I think some ppl are so burdened with the idea of being supposedly under the law (whereas Hebrews 7.12 says that the law was changed and Hebrews 7.19 says that what we have now is better than the law) that they will even sometimes try to burden people with restrictions which are not even in the Old Testament!

faroukfarouk said:

shelley1952:

God bless the memory of your mom.

What do you think of the logic of what was said to you? Maybe it's similar to the assertion: If God had intended us to swim, He would have given us web feet?

Anyway, in Ezekiel 16.12 the Lord Himself is recorded as giving Zion earrings (and even a nose ring)...

Blessings.

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Thank you, I have wonderful memories of my mother and no the saying about webbed feet was never used on me, lol.

Let me ask you a question....what are you inferring about my mother ??

I have only the highest respected my parents and still do even though they gone on many years ago now, my father being the last to cross over in 2003, my mother was in 1998. I may not of agreed with everything they said but I never argued with my father and never really argued with my mother but we did have a couple of intense discussions, no yelling and I am talking to the day they died both were in their in their 70s.Thats why the following below statement from tuliplane bothers me. I had a close relationship with my parents after I married, after I had my children and til they died, I respected what they said and any advice they gave me. I dont care if they would of lived to be over 100, nothing would of changed my respect for them and what they thought. Thats me, I was raised to respect others and their feelings. ( now I am not pretending they knew everything I did as an adult but it was out of respect for them I didnt tell them, Yes I had my ears pierced when in my rebellion towards God or really it was before God but after I became a christian and realized why I was doing it I quit.

tuliplane said:

But yes, I am not under my mother's roof anymore and married. I also don't have a relationship with her at all anymore, so I guess it seems irrelevant to me to feel like I must listen to her.

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This statements bothers me, "I also don't have a relationship with her at all anymore "you do not have a relationship with your mother at all anymore ? AND you dont feel you must listen to her, so you mean you dont respect her ?? Why, just because you are married ?

tuliplane said:

So do you wear earrings now?

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No I do not.

tuliplane said:

When you say you wore them for attention, would you say that you had the intention of people noticing you? It seems like it can be a hard line to draw sometimes when someone wants to say, wear a really pretty outfit or jewelry and they aren't sure if they're wanting to wear something nice for attention or just because. Cause if you think about it, every thing we wear and do does go noticed, so maybe it isn't wrong for someone to want their outfit to be seen as long as the motive isn't out of haughtiness, pride, or trying to incite lust.

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tuliplane said:

would you say that you had the intention of people noticing you?

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you bet I did

The only thing I have been trying to say on this post is God warns about Jewelry and fancy clothes and makeup and all that because of pride. Its not a matter of do I or dont I, its the reasons behind what I do or dont do. I said before, talking about only me, that my dangling earrings, certain clothing and certain makeup was to attract attention, I was being honest about my reasons behind what I use to do which is more than a lot do. It was called vanity and God warns about it. If you belong to God and you are sealed with the Holy Spirit you know right from wrong, its what we do with that knowledge of something being right or wrong, do we override that knowledge if it is wrong and do it anyway just because we dont like it when we are told no, you shouldnt do it ? We have a freewill given to us by God so He knows who loves Him and respects Him and who doesnt, its that simple. If He had wanted to make beings who had no choice to love him He would of made programmed robots that would of praised Him on command, that would of obeyed with no question and so on but He didnt want that. Just like a human parent, they want the love and respect of the child and so God wants His children to love Him voluntarily not forced.

Again and Again I say, if you are sealed with Gods Holy Spirit you know right from wrong and if you are not sure go to your teacher for the answers not humans, seek and you shall find, knock and it shall be opened. From us humans you are going to get as many different answers as the people answering. Unless you dont want to know what God really thinks then go to Him.

shelley1952 said:

Thank you, I have wonderful memories of my mother and no the saying about webbed feet was never used on me, lol.

Let me ask you a question....what are you inferring about my mother ??

I have only the highest respected my parents and still do even though they gone on many years ago now, my father being the last to cross over in 2003, my mother was in 1998. I may not of agreed with everything they said but I never argued with my father and never really argued with my mother but we did have a couple of intense discussions, no yelling and I am talking to the day they died both were in their in their 70s.Thats why the following below statement from tuliplane bothers me. I had a close relationship with my parents after I married, after I had my children and til they died, I respected what they said and any advice they gave me. I dont care if they would of lived to be over 100, nothing would of changed my respect for them and what they thought. Thats me, I was raised to respect others and their feelings. ( now I am not pretending they knew everything I did as an adult but it was out of respect for them I didnt tell them, Yes I had my ears pierced when in my rebellion towards God or really it was before God but after I became a christian and realized why I was doing it I quit.

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Hi there; no inference at all; I was just repeating words you quoted which I now understand were not spoken to you anyway.

I guess this kind of issue is one where reasonable people will have various ideas about.

faroukfarouk said:

Hi there; no inference at all; I was just repeating words you quoted which I now understand were not spoken to you anyway.

I guess this kind of issue is one where reasonable people will have various ideas about.

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Yes thats why I keep saying that was I was saying is how I felt or how I reacted or whatever and what someone else does is them. What it boils down to is if someone wants to do something bad enough they are going to anyway. What I end up doing is on my shoulders and I will stand before God alone and will answer for my own faults. I am sure not perfect and not one of us understands all of whats in Gods Word.

Cant believe this discussion is still going on.
Making mountains out of molehills, or rather, huge big deal over a stupid hole in ones earlobe. If you want to stick holes in your ears, fine, but dont try and claim thats what makes you holy.

Being done up like a christmas tree doesnt impress God.

Costly array...as Paul deem those who flaunted fancy jewellery, was something he didnt want christian women to be known for...but RATHER...their GOOD WORKS.

Our treasures are going to be in heaven where we will wear real crowns.