During the Sermon...

[WildStrawberry]

So, this really could go with the Reverencing the Altar thread but I thought I'd not derail Stude's thread with my question.

I'm on a knitting website that has a subforum for Lutheran women who knit. A question was brought up "Do you knit during the Sermon?" and I thought to myself "surely not."

But there are women who do so. (I'd like to take a poll and find out synodical affiliation for the "I do"s and the "I don't"s. *G*

I know that when I've been working on a project that has me excited, I've been tempted to take it along and work on it. But I find that temptation is just what that is. I do listen better when I'm taking notes, knitting or doodling, but I also know that, with regards to knitting, I'd soon be very focused on the project and not what I was supposed to be listening to and understanding.

So, Pastors, Pastor's wives, Lay people...

What do you think? Would you be aghast at the sight of someone knitting away (or crocheting or embroidering or..or..or..) or would it not faze you in the least?

Me? I think that handiwork is good. Idle hands are the Devil's workshop and all that. BUT doing handiwork in the Lord's house during the service??? Nope. That's neither the time, nor the place.

Kae

 

[DaRev]

How can one focus on hearing the word preached in it's purity and derive anything out of it if they are too ingrained in knitting or anything else? I'm appalled at such a notion.

I think that if people were truly aware at how much time and effort goes into preparing a law and gospel sermon, they might have a bit more appreciation for it. To me, for someone to sit there and be fiddling with something during the sermon is a slap in the face. If one would rather knit than listen to the sermon, STAY AT HOME!

 

[WildStrawberry]

Ahhh the sweet voice of reason.

Thanks Rev! *G*

Kae

 

[QuiltAngel]

I agree with you Kae. I second what Rev said too.

I always thought the doing something while another person is talking to you is a sign of disrespect. When you think of the sermon as being God talking to you through the Pastor, wow.

 

[ByzantineDixie]

My company used to work with a set of consultants that would lay out Legos, and Playdough and other play things across all the tables because the know that everyone learns differently. Some learn best by hearing. Some learn best by reading. But there are also kinesthetic learners--who have to move around a bit while learning...hence the Legos and Playdough set out by the consultants. So your observation that you listen better when knitting or doodling is very real for you.

In the context of a worship service though...well, I don't see a worship service as a classroom so I would agree with the rest of the folks here that knitting during worship isn't appropriate. But I wouldn't be afraid to take that knitting to Bible study or history lectures.

As an aside, my father is totally deaf and he goes to Mass every Sunday and Feast day. He doesn't hear a thing but he surely gets what he needs.

 

[porterross]

How can one focus on hearing the word preached in it's purity and derive anything out of it if they are too ingrained in knitting or anything else? I'm appalled at such a notion.

I think that if people were truly aware at how much time and effort goes into preparing a law and gospel sermon, they might have a bit more appreciation for it. To me, for someone to sit there and be fiddling with something during the sermon is a slap in the face. If one would rather knit than listen to the sermon, STAY AT HOME!

Tell us how you really feel.

Personally, if someone sharing a pew or in my line of sight was fidgeting, it would be very distracting. Not only that, but what would it teach the youngsters about reverence during Divine Worship?

The sermon lasts 15-30 minutes. Surely, any normal, fully functioning adult can offer their undivided attention to His word for that amount of time. If they can't, then Rev is right to suggest they not bother.

Good heavens, there are some of us who seek out MORE law & Gospel sermons than those offered weekly because we simply can't get enough. To know that some people treat such gifts as background noise to their hobbies truly is disappointing.

 

[Flipper]

I know some people also don't like the Power Point Presentations being shown during the sermon, but I'm a visual learner, so the pictures and big bold text actually helps me.

My husband is a kinesthetic learner and he does know how to knit - but he doesn't have the guts to do something like that in a sermon. Instead he shakes one leg, then the other leg, then his arm, then his leg again, all with his eyes closed - and he'll be able to repeat exactly what was said at the end. Sometimes I think I would rather he knit - the leg shaking gets on my nerves.

 

[MarkRohfrietsch]

A funny story...

When I was 11 or 12 I was visiting my cousins and went to Church with them. Dual parish, we had the same Pastor.

During the sermon an elderly gentleman fell asleep. While he was snoozing he managed to squeeze out a dandy fart. It resonated on the pew (no pun intended) and throughout the sanctuary. Pastor stopped preaching. Everyone looked around to see who the culprit was. Dad's older cousin had severe arthritis in his neck and could not turn his head. Everyone figured he did it.

Same Church, same Pastor some years earlier... They always left the front door open for ventilation in the summer. Also during the sermon, a neighbors red bone hound walked in, right up to the front. Looked up at the Pastor, turned and left. Guess he figured it was not much of a sermon.

 

[seajoy]

Gotta go along with Jane and Rev here. I've never seen this happen at church, nor would I ever want to. Next thing ya know, the guys will be bringing wood projects in to sand!

 

[RadMan]

I haven't seen knitting but I've seen sleeping, reading the bulletin and looking at watches. Of course little children get lots of attention to. Pet peeve of mine since it is sometimes noisy and distracting.

 

[Zecryphon]

So, this really could go with the Reverencing the Altar thread but I thought I'd not derail Stude's thread with my question.

I'm on a knitting website that has a subforum for Lutheran women who knit. A question was brought up "Do you knit during the Sermon?" and I thought to myself "surely not."

But there are women who do so. (I'd like to take a poll and find out synodical affiliation for the "I do"s and the "I don't"s. *G*

I know that when I've been working on a project that has me excited, I've been tempted to take it along and work on it. But I find that temptation is just what that is. I do listen better when I'm taking notes, knitting or doodling, but I also know that, with regards to knitting, I'd soon be very focused on the project and not what I was supposed to be listening to and understanding.

So, Pastors, Pastor's wives, Lay people...

What do you think? Would you be aghast at the sight of someone knitting away (or crocheting or embroidering or..or..or..) or would it not faze you in the least?

Me? I think that handiwork is good. Idle hands are the Devil's workshop and all that. BUT doing handiwork in the Lord's house during the service??? Nope. That's neither the time, nor the place.

Kae

If it were a church where there is a sound law and gospel presentation going on, I'd be tempted to smack 'em upside da head, with a not-so fresh 'fisk, in love of course. If this were one of those heretical, Evangelical-pop-Christianity-mega-half-caff-wth whipped cream churches then I'd say let them be as they're probably finding more substance in their knitting than from anything coming out of the pastors mouth about how he had an epiphany while on the golf course or whatever hobby God used to get his attention and how that made him feel.

 

[Zecryphon]

How can one focus on hearing the word preached in it's purity and derive anything out of it if they are too ingrained in knitting or anything else? I'm appalled at such a notion.

I think that if people were truly aware at how much time and effort goes into preparing a law and gospel sermon, they might have a bit more appreciation for it. To me, for someone to sit there and be fiddling with something during the sermon is a slap in the face. If one would rather knit than listen to the sermon, STAY AT HOME!

How do you feel about people who take notes during the sermon? Because someone who looks like they're taking notes could be working on a shopping list. I know that when I see people writing in church, I assume they're taking notes, but I can't actually see what they're writing, so who knows?

 

[LutheranChick]

How do you feel about people who take notes during the sermon? Because someone who looks like they're taking notes could be working on a shopping list. I know that when I see people writing in church, I assume they're taking notes, but I can't actually see what they're writing, so who knows?

Our confirmation kids are required to take notes during the sermon and turn them in to the Pastor, so we know what they are doing. I guess if I saw anyone else writing during the sermon I would put the best construction on it and assume they were also taking notes. As for knitting, I think that's extremely disrespectful. Maybe some people 'hear' better that way but I think needlework is best left at home.

As far as noisy kids go- sure they are somewhat of a distraction, however I welcome the noise, because they are being exposed to the Word of God and that is never a bad thing. I actually have a bit of an issue with churches that provide a nursery for parents to drop off the little ones during service. There is no better way for a child to learn to sit quietly and participate in the service than by being there from birth on. I also feel that God makes sure we all benefit from hearing His Word even if we do think we 'didn't get much out of the service because some kid was crying'. Just my .02

 

[Flipper]

How do you feel about people who take notes during the sermon? Because someone who looks like they're taking notes could be working on a shopping list. I know that when I see people writing in church, I assume they're taking notes, but I can't actually see what they're writing, so who knows?

We're given an outline with blanks and space for taking notes. I like that too. Then you can take it with you and refer back to it later.

 

[Flipper]

Most churches have a cry room, right? IMHO, if a kid is crying or yelling, you need to take the kid outside or to the cry room - that is way too distracting. If the kid is a preschooler doing that and isn't special needs, he should probably get swatted as well, IMHO. If the kid is figeting a bit or sitting there coloring with crayons, but not making too much noise, then whatever. I'm talking about little kids who have no attention spans. They aren't little adults who mostly have attention spans.

My nephew has Downs and ADHD. My sister in law goes to a tiny church in the country (just switched to an LCMS church - yippee). My nephew can sit still for limited times, but what ends up happening is that when his attention span gets shot, he either gets passed around, or he does get up, go to the back and pace back and forth. If he starts yelling, my SIL takes him out of the sanctuary. Otherwise, they let him be. Everyone knows his condition and it is understood, even by the pastor. In fact before they started going there, that church organized a fundraiser to get him a communicator. The congregation is pretty tolerant and understanding. I personally would try to work on his discipline - but I'm not around him enough to know how bad it really is. I think they are waiting for his surgery to correct his hearing, and then maybe he would better respond to discipline, I don't know.

I do believe that a kid doesn't learn how to act in church unless he goes to church. At the same time, they are kids, and some of them have special needs, and the parents shouldn't be punished for that if they are attempting to work with their kids on it - kids aren't going to be perfect the first time in church. I guess you have to find that balance, whatever it is - I'm sure I'll find out.

I do like that we have Kid's Church during the sermon, so the Word can be given at kid level to the kids - I think from age 3 until 5th grade or something like that.

 

[RadMan]

In medieval churches men sat on one side and women sat on the other side. No children were allowed in church. Men didn't want the distractions. If women were too vocal or noticeable then they would be taken out of church and put in a stockade.

I'll never hear the end of this.

 

[DaRev]

It is necessary for there to be a place for a parent to take an unruly child or to change a diaper or whatever. This room should have a window, speaker, and /or a TV monitor so that the parent can still see/hear the service. I do NOT however like the idea of it being a toy room. We shouldn't be rewarding kids for misbehaving in church.

 

[cerette]

Knitting during service sounds wrong to me, listening to the sermon is a part of our worship and why would we wanna do something else too at the same time that we are worshipping the Lord? [Christ himself was happy with the sister who left housework aside and sat down to listen to his teaching.]

I would say it is a bit different if one would be at home listening to sermons or Bible lectures, if it isn't a worship context. I like to listen to sermons in the background when I do housework or whatever; but I wouldn't bring my knitting (not that I know how to knit) or any other work to a worship service.

 

[WildStrawberry]

I usually take notes during the sermon. Sometimes I get caught up in scribbling what Pastor just said and I don't catch what he says next. I've caught myself reaching for the "remote" to rewind.

Noisy kids...really noisy kids who talk in normal voices and play loudly or whatever and their parents don't seem to mind...bother me. It's one of the reasons I started going to early service. But for the most part, kids in church make me HAPPY. *G* (we had a family that would bring their 4 young boys to the Tenebrae service. The kids would talk LOUDLY during the meditation parts and the extinguishing of the candles. It would TOTALLY ruin the "mood" for me and I'd find myself thinking "gah!" instead of thinking about my sins and what Christ did for me and all sinners. even the loud talking kids. )

In the same thread I referenced in the OP, I saw a post from a gal who goes to an ELCA mission church. "Instead of pews," she proudly writes, "we have round tables and on the table are crayons, coloring books, playdough...things like that...for the kids of all ages to play with during the sermon."

I think I wept over that. I realize that there are people who learn best when their hands are busy. But, there are also people who can't learn at ALL if someone else is tinkering around with other things. (I'm one of those who is driven batty by things like that.)

I know that, if I saw someone knitting in Church, I'd be overcome with curiosity...what pattern are they using? What yarn is that? What are they making? Oooh, I need to try THAT stitch... And my mind would NOT be on the Word of God.

Cerette, I like that you've reminded us of Lazarus' sister, Mary. I was also thinking of the "don't work on the Sabath" command...we're to keep that day HOLY. Even though the Sabath is made for man (so we'd have a day of rest instead of going and going and going and...) and not the other way 'round, I think that people can go an hour (or so) without their knitting or whatever. It won't kill them...no matter WHAT they think.

Kae

 

[LilLamb219]

My knitting needles click when I knit...what a racket that would be in a congregation who is trying to pay attention!