DUGGERS and 3 questions

[Red Fox]

Yeap. That's the price of being in the public eye, one minute they will praise you then the next they will crucify you.

Yeah, how terrible... the nerve of the public being outraged over a repeated child molester and a sexual predator of young girls (with his youngest victim being five years old), not to mention the years of covering up his sexually deviant behavior and the repeated child molestation he committed, along with all the lies that were told to protect this pervert from ever being prosecuted, while he was still sexually preying upon and molesting these young girls. Yeah, none of that warrants any public outrage at all. He obviously doesn't deserve to be ridiculed or shunned. Please note that I was being completely sarcastic. He deserves exactly what he's getting and worse, if you ask me.

 

[katherine2001]

All the attention is being given to Josh and making excuses for him while the victims will struggle with this for their entire lives. I know of a family that has a precious daughter that has drawn away from the family because she refuses to tell her husband of 40 years that she was molested. She stays away from the family in fear of someone letting it slip. They will never be free of this.

I agree with you here. Also, it bothers me that people talk about him maybe "playing doctor". He wasn't 4 years old when this happened--he was 14. A 14 year old knows (or should know and if they don't, the parents haven't been doing their job of teaching their children right from wrong) that this type of behavior is not right and not acceptable behavior for someone that age. However, do the parents even teach their children about sex? If not, I have to hold Michelle and Jim Bob accountable for that too. In my house, we knew by age 6 or 7 that this kind of behavior was wrong and unacceptable. If a 14 (or even 12 year old) doesn't know that this is wrong behavior then there are some serious problems in that family.

 

[Smidlee]

Yeah, how terrible... the nerve of the public being outraged over a repeated child molester and a sexual predator of young girls (with his youngest victim being five years old), not to mention the years of covering up his sexually deviant behavior and the repeated child molestation he committed, along with all the lies that were told to protect this pervert from ever being prosecuted, while he was still sexually preying upon and molesting these young girls. Yeah, none of that warrants any public outrage at all. He obviously doesn't deserve to be ridiculed or shunned. Please note that I was being completely sarcastic. He deserves exactly what he's getting and worse, if you ask me.

This doesn't change what I wrote.

 

[katherine2001]

That is true, and we certainly (and thankfully) live in a system of 'innocent until proven guilty'. 12 years is a long time, and since all the evidence points that Josh is a changed man, I don't think he should have to pay for it any longer.

What is of *far* greater concern from my perspective is the cover up. His family, the police, the organisation... they all covered up this crime. And that is inexcusable.

Unfortunately, I bet his sisters (and the one or 2 that were not sisters) are still paying for his behavior. You don't come out of that without some major psychological problems. The parents seemed to care more about him than his sisters, and Josh's statement was all about him. His victims didn't seem to be that big a deal to him.

 

[Smidlee]

I wonder if the victims wants this broadcast all over the news. It seems everyone wants to speak for the victims. Who cares about victims when this make good news story.

 

[Ada Lovelace]

Yeap. That's the price of being in the public eye, one minute they will praise you then the next they will crucify you.

In the words of the legendary Johnny Cash:
Well you may throw your rock and hide your hand
Workin' in the dark against your fellow man
But as sure as God made black and white
What's done in the dark will be brought to the light

Pillars of small communities have had their reputations rapidly fall when child molestation scandals have emerged. The Duggars choose to be in the spotlight so when their wrongdoings were brought out, far more saw them. They also have a history of throwing rocks, and they live in a giant glass house.

I see parallelisms in Jim Bob and Michelle Duggar's actions and those of Joe Paterno, the once iconic football coach who was rapidly repudiated and disgraced for his moral failures in a child molestation scandal. In that case the adult was a perpetrator rather than an adolescent, but as with the Duggar parents he was guilty of a dereliction of duty to take swift and appropriate action. In both incidences concealing the crimes protected their own reputations and advanced their careers. Joe Paterno dedicated his life to his university; he pushed for his team's excellence; and he inspired generations of young people and endeared alumni to their alma matter. He also hadn't set himself up as a moral paragon, but earned respect by being a leader for the community. He was praised with adulation one day and had his reputation crucified the next, but that wasn't due to the fickle feelings of the community but rather the airing of his wrongs. Sandusky is deservedly rotting in jail. Joe Paterno never molested a child, but he enabled harm to continue, just as the Duggars did when they kept Josh in the house after being made aware that he was molesting his sisters and another child. As with Sandunsky, Josh's crimes grew in severity over time. Paterno's legacy was deservingly ruined, and he died at 85 without the dignity he would have had if he had done what was right when it had been his responsibility to. They covered up the statue of him on the campus when the news broke, and then eventually removed it entirely. Some said it should have been put back up, but backwards, to symbolize how he had turned his back and looked away. The only relief of that horrid scandal was that Christians weren't acting as if Paterno was a victim of religious persecution, or reminding everyone that they had sinned and so they had no right to judge him, or demanding that forgiveness be given to him because Christ forgave them.

 

[Red Fox]

In the words of the legendary Johnny Cash:
Well you may throw your rock and hide your hand
Workin' in the dark against your fellow man
But as sure as God made black and white
What's done in the dark will be brought to the light

God's gonna cut you down.

The Duggars choose to be in the spotlight so when their wrongdoings were brought out, far more saw them. They also have a history of throwing rocks, and they live in a giant glass house.

Yes... very well said.

 

[sdmsanjose]

In the sociological classifications of religious movements, a cult is a religious or social group with socially deviant or novel beliefs and practices.

Please note the bolded part that your definition cite ends with. The family doesn't have to be "socially deviant" to be a cult.

Ok, what are the "NOVEL BELIEFS AND PRACTICES" that Mr. and Mrs. Dugger practice?
Be specific please

 

[Armoured]

Ok, what are the "NOVEL BELIEFS AND PRACTICES" that Mr. and Mrs. Dugger practice?
Be specific please

Using Mrs. Duggar as a clown car springs to mind.

 

[Supreme]

Unfortunately, I bet his sisters (and the one or 2 that were not sisters) are still paying for his behavior. You don't come out of that without some major psychological problems. The parents seemed to care more about him than his sisters, and Josh's statement was all about him. His victims didn't seem to be that big a deal to him.

That's true.

 

[CRAZY_CAT_WOMAN]

He deserves exactly what he's getting and worse, if you ask me.

Actually the whole family is getting what he deserves, especially the victims.

 

[katherine2001]

That's true.

Unfortunately the sisters were betrayed twice, first by their brother and then by their parents who failed to protect them from their brother. It's bad enough to be molested by someone other than a member of your immediate family, but to have it done by your brother (or father) has got to make it much worse.

 

[Red Fox]

Actually the whole family is getting what he deserves, especially the victims.

Actually, his parents do deserve all the outrage and criticism they're receiving from the public. As for his victims, that's an unfortunate side effect because of who their family is. I wish it wasn't that way, but it is. However, I sincerely hope these girls are able to receive real professional help, possibly outside the realm of Christian therapy, and they are able to separate themselves completely from that abusive environment. Sadly, I seriously doubt they will, because that's how they were indoctrinated and conditioned.

 

[Smidlee]

If Josh Duggar confessed his sin and put it under the blood of Christ no Christian (except the victims) has the right to bring up his sin. His sin in under the blood just like mine. Now he is still accountable to his victims and accountable to the law but as far as I'm concerned it washed as white as snow. The only time a Christian should ever think about his action is when it involve leadership around children.(Ex: youth pastor) You don't want to put him in a position where he will be tempted.

All those self-righteous Pharisees who judge a sin that is place under the blood, God will used your own judgement to condemn you unless you put your sin under the blood of Christ.

Now as far as the TV show I never cared to watch it.

 

[Glass*Soul]

We've been hearing a lot of talk about forgiveness, but not so much about repentance. Repentance is much more than stopping what you're doing and saying you're sorry. It also involves a certain humility. One can never quite shake the dust out of one's clothing and move on as if nothing has happened. You carry the knowledge of what you've done with you, but hopefully in a way that makes you more empathetic, gentle, and nuanced in your own thinking. More merciful. More self aware.

The problem with having a beam in your own eye isn't so much that it blinds you, but that you tend to see it reflected in the eyes of others. The splinter you keep trying to take out of your brother's eye isn't really there. It's a projection of your own unresolved guilt. You're hurting your brother and yourself every time you pick at it.

I think Josh did the right thing to resign his position, not so much because he's been found out and publicly shamed, but because it wasn't the right place for him. Never was. I hope this is an opportunity for him to find a new level of repentance, as an adult and with an adult's understanding of his own short-comings and how they should inform his interactions with others. Building houses or something similar probably is good therapy. Build houses, figuratively take some time in the wilderness, and leave the public alone for now.

 

[Glass*Soul]

If Josh Duggar confuses his sin and put it under the blood of Christ no Christian (except the victims) has the right to bring up his sin. His sin in under the blood just like mine. Now he is still accountable to his victims and accountable to the law but as far as I'm concerned it washed as white as snow. The only time a Christian should ever think about his action is when it involve leadership around children.(Ex: youth pastor) You don't want to put him in a position where he will be tempted.

All those self-righteous Pharisees who judge a sin that is place under the blood, God will used your own judgement to condemn you unless you put your sin under the blood of Christ.

The blood of Christ is not whitewash. Christ was rather famously against spiritual whitewashing. If anything, one's wrongs and shortcomings should become all the more apparent--all the more transparent. The blood of Christ should make guileless. open books of us to the world and ourselves, with our exteriors depicting as truly as possible our interiors.

Be cautious of those who appear as white as snow.

 

[seashale76]

Glass*Soul- I wish I could do more than 'like' your posts. Well said.

 

[sdmsanjose]

Ok, what are the "NOVEL BELIEFS AND PRACTICES" that Mr. and Mrs. Dugger practice?
Be specific please

Using Mrs. Duggar as a clown car springs to mind.

That is weak!

It seems that Mrs. Duggar was talking about having their 20th child and someone else said that “her uterus is not a clown car.” That was a pretty good attempt at a joke. Armoured, I have to read between the lines for your response. My guess is that you think that the Duggars are a cult because they have lot of children. I think that is a weak position as years ago American families had lots of children. My grandmother raised 15 and my great aunt raised 14 and they were Methodist. Is Methodist a cult?


Here is what I have gathered so far regarding the Duggard:


Joshua Duggar proved that he was a pervert at the age of 14-15

Joshua Duggar should never be trusted around small children again

Joshua Duggar appears to have repented in that he has not reoffended in the last

12 years. Josh committed a terrible sin but it is not the unpardonable sin.


As far as legally punishing Joshua more, that is a dead issue, stop kicking a dead horse




Mr. Jim-Bob Duggar

Jim-Bob Duggar said: Rape and incest represent heinous crimes and as such should be treated as capital crimes.

With Jim-Bob’s statement above and his actions regarding his son’s molestation he deserves to not only be called out on that but also to expect the disgust that he is getting from some people. On this issue Mr. Duggar is a hypocrite on this issue.

I do not see the Duggars as a cult in the sense that a cult is like the Charles Manson family, Jim Jones family, David Koresh family, etc. In fact no one responded stating that Mr. and Mrs. Duggar are socially deviant in judging the Duggars as a cult. If the definition of a cult is limited to NOVEL BELIEFS AND PRACTICES then, many of us could be labeled as cults. With the broad definition of “novel beliefs and practices” a cult could be harmless

As for the parenting of Mr. and Mrs. Duggar I would say that with the exception of Joshua Duggar they have done an outstanding job. Even with Joshua’s situation can we blame the parents for the 14-15 year old’s offenses?

Out of the adult and teenage children that they have raised so far only one out of twelve has had a huge failing. I do not think that the overall judgement of Duggars parenting need to be continually negatively criticized. In fact they are probably doing better than many of us on this forum.


Josh Duggar Age 27 Married 3 children

John David Duggar age 25 not married

Janna Duggar age 25 not married

Jill Duggar age 24 married 3 children

Jessa Duggar age 22 Married expecting in November 2015

Jinna Duggar age 21 not married

Joseph Duggar age 20 not married

Josiah Duggar age 18 Not married

Joy-Anna Duggar age 17 not married

Jedidiah Duggar age 16 not married

Jeremiah Duggar age 16 not married

Jason Duggar age 15 not married

As of this date none of the above (except Josh) have committed a serious crime or even a minor crime. That is ELEVEN good citizens; that is probably better than some of us could do with raising twelve adults and teens!

 

[Ada Lovelace]

That is weak!

It seems that Mrs. Duggar was talking about having their 20th child and someone else said that “her uterus is not a clown car.” That was a pretty good attempt at a joke. Armoured, I have to read between the lines for your response. My guess is that you think that the Duggars are a cult because they have lot of children. I think that is a weak position as years ago American families had lots of children. My grandmother raised 15 and my great aunt raised 14 and they were Methodist. Is Methodist a cult?


Here is what I have gathered so far regarding the Duggard:


Joshua Duggar proved that he was a pervert at the age of 14-15

Joshua Duggar should never be trusted around small children again

Joshua Duggar appears to have repented in that he has not reoffended in the last

12 years. Josh committed a terrible sin but it is not the unpardonable sin.


As far as legally punishing Joshua more, that is a dead issue, stop kicking a dead horse




Mr. Jim-Bob Duggar



With Jim-Bob’s statement above and his actions regarding his son’s molestation he deserves to not only be called out on that but also to expect the disgust that he is getting from some people. On this issue Mr. Duggar is a hypocrite on this issue.

I do not see the Duggars as a cult in the sense that a cult is like the Charles Manson family, Jim Jones family, David Koresh family, etc. In fact no one responded stating that Mr. and Mrs. Duggar are socially deviant in judging the Duggars as a cult. If the definition of a cult is limited to NOVEL BELIEFS AND PRACTICES then, many of us could be labeled as cults. With the broad definition of “novel beliefs and practices” a cult could be harmless

As for the parenting of Mr. and Mrs. Duggar I would say that with the exception of Joshua Duggar they have done an outstanding job. Even with Joshua’s situation can we blame the parents for the 14-15 year old’s offenses?

Out of the adult and teenage children that they have raised so far only one out of twelve has had a huge failing. I do not think that the overall judgement of Duggars parenting need to be continually negatively criticized. In fact they are probably doing better than many of us on this forum.


Josh Duggar Age 27 Married 3 children

John David Duggar age 25 not married

Janna Duggar age 25 not married

Jill Duggar age 24 married 3 children

Jessa Duggar age 22 Married expecting in November 2015

Jinna Duggar age 21 not married

Joseph Duggar age 20 not married

Josiah Duggar age 18 Not married

Joy-Anna Duggar age 17 not married

Jedidiah Duggar age 16 not married

Jeremiah Duggar age 16 not married

Jason Duggar age 15 not married

As of this date none of the above (except Josh) have committed a serious crime or even a minor crime. That is ELEVEN good citizens; that is probably better than some of us could do with raising twelve adults and teens!

I'm failing to see why it's trotted out like an accomplishment to have nineteen children and only one known incestuous child molester in the bunch.

 

[seashale76]

^The Duggar family is associated with the Bill Gothard cult. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_Gothard They promote ATI and Vision Forum. They also used 'blanket training' (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blanket_training) with their kids, which is a form of corporal punishment used on infants and toddlers that is advocated by Michael Pearl in his controversial book on how to discipline children (that is directly responsible for the death of at least one child out there). http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Pearl