Drug Decriminalization in Portugal

[SecretOfFatima]

Just wanted to share with you a video talk I found about a success of Drug Decriminalization in Portugal, it also talks about other failures in other countries while trying to tackle this problem.

Basically not punishing the users and trying to help them, while at the same time tackling and punishing the dealers!

I'm actually Portuguese and while I have to admit drug related crimes have dramatically dropped, personally I would like to also see some longer term crime comparison figures, specially around violent crimes, and if such crimes are being committed by nationals or by migrants (example: organized international criminal's), and also a European wide comparison....

or maybe is just my impression from the media headlines this days but I think violent crimes are in the increase every where in general...
could this be due to the effects of people being exposed to violence in our media in general???

here is the link to the video: Drug Decriminalization in Portugal | Cato Institute: Policy Forum

The actual white paper report discussed in this video can be download from here.

 

[Open]

Facinating subject!
Just got back from a week in your lovely country today.
Had to say, I did not see any drug related problems (with the exception of alcohol!), and that was mainly tourists.
I have only been to Lisbon once and the Algavre a few times, but cannot say that I ever noticed a problem in this area.
I am from Ireland and can readily pick out drug addicts on the streets of Dubiln.

It is facinating to see that post 2001, the drug taking rate has not increased as predicted.
Perhaps those who are likely to get caught up in the drugs scene will do so whether or not they are legal. Punishing the supplier and providing help for addicts seems a much more effective use of resources.

Do you think there may be a cultural issue? I know in Ireland everything is always taken to excess. We have 'head' shops that up until recently have been allowed to sell 'legal highs' alleged to be similar to those of many outlawed drugs. They had become realtively mainstrean until recently outlawed. I would have a concern about decriminisation of users here.
What do you think was the key to success in Portugal?
Are they culture specific or can they be applied universally?

 

[onemorequestion]

All crime will drop if you redefine a crime as not a crime.

But the consequences of engaging in those things that were once classified as a crime and then just altered as no longer being a crime do not change.

Does Portugal redefine the crimes the drug users commit to buy their drugs as no longer being crimes?

Is a drug addict that dies from a drug overdose celebrated for at least not being labeled a criminal during his or her short drug addicted life?

I know this heartbreak personally all too often and all too well.

By the way, I've heard that Portugal is a beautiful country.

 

[FallenPaladin]

I know how we can decrease violent crimes! We could decriminalize them. Do I qualify for the Nobel prize?

 

[underpressure]

Well done the Portugese for being one of the few countries in the world to actually treat this huge drug problem with some common sense, compared to the absolutely mindless, negligent way my own and many other countries deal with the problem.

As for the 'impression' that violent crimes might be on the rise, I know people have that impression in my country too, the statistics year after year tend to show crime is going down though. I think 24 hour news networks and the internet are responsible for giving an impression things are worse than they used to be. For example, in the old days people would go to work, they'd get home from work and unless something very major happened in the world they probably would be none the wiser till the evening when they might (some day) catch up on a news bulletin show, where as nowadays we tend to hear the latest news stories all through the day so it can give you an impression that there are more going ons than yesteryear.

 

[lawtonfogle]

All crime will drop if you redefine a crime as not a crime.

At least in the U.S., almost all drug laws are the result of racism and classism. If we were to legalize it, a controlled market would make them more affordable, would undercut the profits of drug lords, and would allow for us to tax them and use that tax to help those who go overboard.

The reason crime is so high is because we defined something that wasn't a crime as a crime, and then proceeded to waste billions of dollars trying to fight it.

 

[lawtonfogle]

I know how we can decrease violent crimes! We could decriminalize them. Do I qualify for the Nobel prize?

I know how we can increase non-violent crimes, we can make actions which are normally legal illegal. Do I get a... oh wait, we already did this. Thinking that a crime that harms an other's rights is the same as one that does not is only going to get you into the mess we are in, where we are spending billions fighting against an organization which will never go away because of supply and demand, and which has become so strong because we cut out all the competition for them. If we were to legalize drugs, we would be able to flood the market and undercut drug cartels, and once they stopped pulling in the money, they would collapse due to in-fighting. A lot of people don't want to get rid of the drug cartels because they profit either from them, or from fighting them. Without the drug cartel, there is one less buggy man to raise taxes to stop.

 

[FallenPaladin]

I know how we can increase non-violent crimes, we can make actions which are normally legal illegal. Do I get a... oh wait, we already did this. Thinking that a crime that harms an other's rights is the same as one that does not is only going to get you into the mess we are in, where we are spending billions fighting against an organization which will never go away because of supply and demand, and which has become so strong because we cut out all the competition for them. If we were to legalize drugs, we would be able to flood the market and undercut drug cartels, and once they stopped pulling in the money, they would collapse due to in-fighting. A lot of people don't want to get rid of the drug cartels because they profit either from them, or from fighting them. Without the drug cartel, there is one less buggy man to raise taxes to stop.

People used to commonly die in places called hop houses. They don't anymore.

 

[Umaro]

I wish we could just skip all the political bickering and just make some more drugs legal to use recreationally. When America tried outlawing alcohol it just ended up with a huge increase in crime and costs of law enforcement. We should treat the other relatively harmless drugs like pot and mescaline the same way. Maybe if people had an alternative other than alcohol and tobacco they wouldn't feel the need to stray into the hard stuff.

 

[SecretOfFatima]

Fascinating subject!
Just got back from a week in your lovely country today.
Had to say, I did not see any drug related problems (with the exception of alcohol!), and that was mainly tourists.
I have only been to Lisbon once and the Algarve a few times, but cannot say that I ever noticed a problem in this area.
I am from Ireland and can readily pick out drug addicts on the streets of Dublin.

It is fascinating to see that post 2001, the drug taking rate has not increased as predicted.
Perhaps those who are likely to get caught up in the drugs scene will do so whether or not they are legal. Punishing the supplier and providing help for addicts seems a much more effective use of resources.

Do you think there may be a cultural issue? I know in Ireland everything is always taken to excess. We have 'head' shops that up until recently have been allowed to sell 'legal highs' alleged to be similar to those of many outlawed drugs. They had become relatively mainstream until recently outlawed. I would have a concern about decriminalization of users here.

IMO, while Portuguese society is very open to public discussions and understandable to matters affecting the community (as you may realize Portugal culture is based on a catholic society), IMO I think it boiled down to the growing crime in small and close communities, for example people that I went to school with, having to go out and commit crime in order to get a fix, the whole crime situation was just out of hand and government needed to do something, as arresting people was not working... addicts would come out and continue to commit crime.

What do you think was the key to success in Portugal?

Maybe there was an overall partial drug culture change in Portugal and also the rest of Europe around that period... but in reality most of these addicts, IMO really comes a time when they want to sort their life's out and being able to ask for help when they are ready to do so, IMO can only be a good thing.

when it comes to drugs, I thing unless someone really wants help, then you cannot really help them until they are ready.

Are they culture specific or can they be applied universally?

Is critical that government has a working system in place to be there and to help those who want help.

...In addition, personally from what I hear, I think drug recovery is a extremely difficult process go through but not impossible.... IMO i think there are some religious programs out there helping drug addicts that are actually much more successful then government schemes are, as government schemes tend to be more directed at provide alternatives drugs while slowly removing other drugs from the system... and religious programs in fact tend to be more team work and one-to-one interaction, for example one such European wide program is run by ex-addicts under and project called "cenacolo", where one of the ex-addicts then works with a new comer 24/7 for months to help the person come out of drugs completely, take a look at this page: Cenacolo Community (talks about Dublin)
I think success rates on cenacolo is at around 90/95% where public run schemes stay at around 5/10%, these figures are based on someone falling down within a 10 year period.

About the public schemes, at least people can continue to seek help if they do fall until they succeed!

...about Cenacolo there was a good film about the work they do floating around the web but i cannot find it right now!

 

[SecretOfFatima]

I know how we can decrease violent crimes! We could decriminalize them. Do I qualify for the Nobel prize?

I think you missing the point!

Helping these people if they want help really stops crime, is not just a matter of not treating it as a crime, literally these people can go and get daily help from their doctor, so they do not need to pay the dealer and in turn they do not need to go and still something to buy a fix. Of course if someone commits a crime, for example robbery then they will be dealt with in the normal faction.

Never less, and this could be an unrelated problem, i get the impression that Portugal in the past few years is seeing a rise in violent crimes, hence why i said i would like to see longer term figures and and European comparison study, maybe such crimes are being committed by organized crime.

 

[FallenPaladin]

I think you missing the point!

Helping these people if they want help really stops crime, is not just a matter of not treating it as a crime, literally these people can go and get daily help from their doctor, so they do not need to pay the dealer and in turn they do not need to go and still something to buy a fix. Of course if someone commits a crime, for example robbery then they will be dealt with in the normal faction.

Never less, and this could be an unrelated problem, i get the impression that Portugal in the past few years is seeing a rise in violent crimes, hence why i said i would like to see longer term figures and and European comparison study, maybe such crimes are being committed by organized crime.

I deal with doctors all the time who are annoyed to no end trying to wean people off of pain and anxiety meds. Opening the door for all of society to try the Devil's poisons with impunity seems short sighted and stupid.

 

[lawtonfogle]

People used to commonly die in places called hop houses. They don't anymore.

Yeah, now we have more of them dying in the privacy of their own dwellings or in the ghetto, not to mention the entire drug cartel that has been able to flourish.