csheppard91 said:
I've read some discussion on drinking in this forum and there wasn't one reply condeming drinking... I don't see how it can be christian like, but I don't know how to disprove it. I have heard people saying that they drunk whine back then, but can you biblically prove the whine drunk in good faith (considering they don't get drunk from it) HAS been fermented?
Since there is now a dyed-in-the-wool KJVO fan in this neck of the woods, and although I really don't know if he adheres to the position re wine that many KJVO proponents do, perhaps this might be a stitch in time....
DEFINITIONS: In Hebrew, there are at least eight different words that are translated into the English word "wine".
The most common is the word "
ya'yin" which means: "to effervesce; wine as fermented; by implication intoxication." (from Strong's dictionary of Hebrew Words).
All of the Hebrew words translated into the English word "wine" mean either specifically an intoxicant, such as: "
shekar" (shay-kawr'), or imply intoxication.
The word "
ya'yin" is used in Genesis 9:20, where (of Noah) it is said: "And he drank wine, and was drunken..."
The same word is used in Gen.19:32-35 where the daughters of Lot enticed him to drink wine and then committed incest with him. Obviously, Lot was in a drunken stupor considering the last part of verse 33 which says: "...and he perceived not when she lay down, nor when she arose." (referring to Lot's firstborn).
In Leviticus 10:9, God forbids Aaron to "...drink wine or strong drink.. ." when Aaron was to go into the tabernacle. The obvious implication being that either one is a mind-altering substance, and Aaron was to be clear-headed.
Unger's Bible Dictionary has the following: "Wine. 1. Bible Terms. The product of the wine press was described in Hebrew by a variety of terms, indicative either of the quality or the use of the liquid.
(1) Heb.
ya'yin (
effervescing) is rendered invariably in the A.V. "wine," excepting Judges 13:14, "vine"; Canticles 2:4, "banqueting." This term corresponds to the Gr.
oinos, and our
wine. In most of the passages in the Bible where
yayin is used (eighty-three out of one hundred and thirty eight), it certainly means
fermented grape juice, and in the remainder it may fairly be presumed to do so. In four only (Isa. 16:10; Jer.40:10-12; Lam. 2:12) is it really doubtful.
"In no passage can it be positively shown to have any other meaning. The intoxicating character of
yayin in general is plain from Scripture. To it are attributed the "darkly flashing eye" (Gen. 49:12; A.V. "red"), the unbridled tongue (Prov. 20:1; Isa. 28:7), the excitement of the spirit (Prov. 31:6; Isa. 5:11; Zech. 9:15; 10:7), the enchained affections of its votaries (Hos.4:11), the perverted judgement (Prov.31:5; Isa.28:7), the indecent exposure (Hab.2:15,16), and the sickness resulting from the
heat (hemah, A.V. "bottles") of wine (Hos. 7:5)."
In Greek, there are four words (three of which are from the same root) translated into the English word "wine."
1. "
gleu'kos: sweet wine; fresh, but used of the more saccharine (and therefore highly inebriating) fermented wine." (from Strong's) This is the word used in Acts 2:13, where some of those who heard the disciples speak in languages they had received from the Holy Spirit declared that the disciples were "...full of new wine..." but Peter told them: "...these are not drunken as ye suppose, seeing it is
but the third hour of the day."
Obviously Peter, as well as those who had heard, associated "new wine" with inebriation.
2. "
oi'nos: a primitive word; or perhaps of Hebrew origin [
yayin] ; wine." (again, from Strong's) This is the most common Greek word translated into the English "wine" and is used by our Lord in the Gospels. In the analogy of putting "new wine" into old wineskins, if it were mere grapejuice.... no problem. But as the definition of these words "new wine" also utilizes the word
gleu'kos with it's attendant meaning, and since this wine is still in the process of fermentation (effervescing), no wonder the wineskins (KJV "bottles") could not contain it.
3. "
oinophlugi'a : an overflow (or surplus) of wine, i.e.
vinolency (drunkeness): excess of wine." (Strong's). This word is used in 1 Peter 4:3 as "... excess of wine, revellings, banquetings, and abominable idolatries."
4. "
par'oinos: staying near wine; tippling; given to wine." (Strong's).
This word is used in the description/qualifications of the man who aspires to the "...office of a bishop..." (or overseer), in 1 Timothy 3:3: "Not given to wine..." and in vs. 8: "Likewise
must the deacons
be grave, not doubletongued, not given to much wine..." (The NASB has: "not addicted to wine..." in vs.3, and.... "not double-tongued, or addicted to much wine..." in verse 8).
Kenneth Wuest, in his
Word Studies in the Greek New Testament, has this to say regarding Ephesians 5:18... "'Be drunk' is
methusko, 'to get drunk, become intoxicated.' Wycliffe translates, "be filled." Vincent says: A curious use of the word occurs in Homer, where he is describing the stretching of a bull's hide, which in order to make it more elastic is
soaked (methusko) with fat. The word, therefore, refers to the condition of a person in which he is soaked with wine."
See also Luke 7:33,34, where the English word winebibber is used, the Greek word for which is
oinopot'es, the definition of which is: "a tippler" (again taken from Strong's).
Webster's defines "tippler" as "One who habitually indulges in the excessive use of spiritous liquors; a drunkard; a sot. It however signifies often a person who habitually drinks strong liquors, without absolute drunkenness."
Webster further defines.... "Bibber: n. A tippler, a man given to drinking; chiefly used in composition, as winebibber."
None of the above would make any sense whatsoever if we substitute "grapejuice" (as is the case with many KJV Only folks), for what the Word of God so plainly says by using the word "wine".
W.A.B.