Drinking and an issue of pride

[mourningdove~]

And there is nothing better than an ice cold Coors lite, except for maybe the satisfaction of shattering a cold dead religious paradigm.

( )

 

[NaLuvena]

I think the essense of all this is "Who is in control?" Control must be ours, and we must cede that control to God.

If you drink one beer, and can still control yourself, you are still ok. If you lose control, then you are drunk, and this does not glorify God.

This would also apply to everything else. People can get drunk on power, fame, wealth, etc,etc and they are no longer in control of themselves. We then miss the purpose of God that we were made to "rule over the all the earth" (Gen 1:26). A drunk person has the earth ruling over them in some way or form.

Different people have different tolerances to different things. Some people can have a lot of power, and still be grounded, some people get absolutely corrupted. Some people can hold their drink better than others. Best advise would be to abstain if you can't control yourself.

 

[mourningdove~]

The best marketing job in history has and is being done by those who make alcoholic beverages and those who advertise them.

The idea that drinking the juice from a rotted plant, which is the result of fermentation, is something to be desired, and makes one more "sophisticated", "cooler", "sociable" etc. is one of the biggest, most ridiculous deceptive fantasies every swallowed hook, line and sinker by the worlds population.

( )

 

[Alpine]

I've told several of my non-believing friends how a big portion of my Christian family thinks I shouldn't drink alcohol and my friends always think that's weird - they had no idea that Christians weren't supposed to drink alcohol. Many of them have said to me "but, didn't Jesus turn water into wine?"
In fact, the Bible says don't be a drunk... it's talking about a lifestyle, habitual drunkenness. Getting an occasional buzz on is not wrong, of that I am convinced. I don't believe God would encourage people to partake in an intoxicating substance but be upset with us when that substance ends up intoxicating us on occasion.

I agree with you actually. I see drinking as a grey issue. If it offends me, then I shouldn't partake, But, at the same time, I shouldn't condemn another if he partakes responsibly. As you said, the bible supports drinking more than it condemns it.

But I never chose to not drink because of my faith in Christ. I chose not to drink when I was in high school because I saw too many negatives associated with drinking. Broken homes, abusive parents, absentee parents, alcoholism, death.

I just saw the possibilities of things going wrong with alcohol much worse than the alternative.

But, years later, I question if this was a wise choice. I feel pride in me that I chose this path. But, at the same time, I don't want this pride. It bugs me. It won't go away.

But, I'm afraid of what could happen if I uncorked that bottle.

 

[mourningdove~]

But, I'm afraid of what could happen if I uncorked that bottle.

I would listen to that "voice" ... it may be the Spirit warning you ...

 

[Izdaari Eristikon]

To other Christians. I've had drinks with many unbelievers. So far, I haven't seen this "Christians don't drink" stereotype from unbelievers. I've only ever gotten it from Christians. In fact, I've told several of my non-believing friends how a big portion of my Christian family thinks I shouldn't drink alcohol and my friends always think that's weird - they had no idea that Christians weren't supposed to drink alcohol. Many of them have said to me "but, didn't Jesus turn water into wine?"

And another question to ask is "what testimony"? What am I testifying to if I refuse to have a drink of alcohol? Am I testifying about the freedom I have in Christ? Am I testifying about the grace I have found? Am I testifying about my reliance on the Holy Spirit to keep me from falling into alcoholism and addiction? Am I showing that I have the fruit of the spirit (self-control) because of my relationship with the Father?

Or am I testifying about following rules and trying to be perfect? Am I showing people Christ's righteousness or my own ability to follow man-made rules?

What testimony, then?

Just so. A local church (Lutheran/Episcopal - yes, they're affiliated with both) has something they call Theology Pub, basically a small group meeting where they gather at a tavern and talk theology over pints. I haven't been to that yet, but it sounds great to me.

In fact, the Bible says don't be a drunk... it's talking about a lifestyle, habitual drunkenness. Getting an occasional buzz on is not wrong, of that I am convinced. I don't believe God would encourage people to partake in an intoxicating substance but be upset with us when that substance ends up intoxicating us on occasion.

( )

Well, Martin Luther agreed, and I always take his opinion seriously, since he started the whole Protestant thing.

And there is nothing better than an ice cold Coors lite, except for maybe the satisfaction of shattering a cold dead religious paradigm.

(especially with pizza)

John O.

( )

Yeah, that kinda shocks me too, since I regard Coors Light as little more than beer-flavored water.

Beer and pizza is great, but make mine a real beer, an IPA or something.

 

[mourningdove~]

...

I can see I am greatly 'outnumbered' in THIS thread ... lol

No offense intended ...
no offense taken ...
but clearly is time for me to leave 'THE PARTY' ... lol

*Peace*

 

[Izdaari Eristikon]

I agree with you actually. I see drinking as a grey issue. If it offends me, then I shouldn't partake, But, at the same time, I shouldn't condemn another if he partakes responsibly. As you said, the bible supports drinking more than it condemns it.

But I never chose to not drink because of my faith in Christ. I chose not to drink when I was in high school because I saw too many negatives associated with drinking. Broken homes, abusive parents, absentee parents, alcoholism, death.

I just saw the possibilities of things going wrong with alcohol much worse than the alternative.

But, years later, I question if this was a wise choice. I feel pride in me that I chose this path. But, at the same time, I don't want this pride. It bugs me. It won't go away.

But, I'm afraid of what could happen if I uncorked that bottle.

I totally understand, Alpine, since it's for similar reasons that I never smoked. I made the decision not to while I was still a kid, having seen the bad health effects it had on people I loved. If you think being an alcoholic tends to run in your family, abstaining is a totally sensible decision.

 

[Izdaari Eristikon]

...

I can see I am greatly 'outnumbered' in THIS thread ... lol

No offense intended ...
no offense taken ...
but clearly is time for me to leave 'THE PARTY' ... lol

*Peace*

I understand.

 

[bliz]

Drink or don't drink - no one else really cares.

I don't understand what's to be proud about in making a choice not to drink. You re doing what you think is best for yourself - which is rather selfish, don't you think?

So by all means, stick with the choice you've made for yourself, but dump the pride.

 

[pdudgeon]

Hey wait a minute! i just now got here and you're leaving already? NO FAIR!

but anyway.............,

Alpine said

I agree with you actually. I see drinking as a grey issue. If it offends me, then I shouldn't partake, But, at the same time, I shouldn't condemn another if he partakes responsibly. As you said, the bible supports drinking more than it condemns it.

But I never chose to not drink because of my faith in Christ. I chose not to drink when I was in high school because I saw too many negatives associated with drinking. Broken homes, abusive parents, absentee parents, alcoholism, death.

I just saw the possibilities of things going wrong with alcohol much worse than the alternative.

But, years later, I question if this was a wise choice. I feel pride in me that I chose this path. But, at the same time, I don't want this pride. It bugs me. It won't go away.

But, I'm afraid of what could happen if I uncorked that bottle.

it sounds to me like you are saying you made a logical choice early on (Ben was right, that's legalism) and now you're reaping the reward of legalism, which is pride.
At the same time there's this tiny voice in your head trying to convince you that the only sure way to find out whether your choice has merit or is just a lot of hot air is to go ahead and take a bite of that apple.


don't bite.

pray instead, look at the issue from a Christian perspective this time, and then follow the leading of the Holy Spirit on this matter.

 

[Alpine]

Drink or don't drink - no one else really cares.

I don't understand what's to be proud about in making a choice not to drink. You re doing what you think is best for yourself - which is rather selfish, don't you think?

So by all means, stick with the choice you've made for yourself, but dump the pride.

If it was that easy, I wouldn't be considering drinking.

 

[Optimax]

In that case, we'd better not eat cheese either - made from the secretions of animals, curdled by bacterial action, and often left to go mouldy for a few weeks... or months.

The only Cheeseoholics I have seen are at Packer football games.


Never heard of cheeseoholics having the problems that are associated with alcoholics.

 

[Svt4Him]

I'm 33 and I've never had a drink of alcohol. In social situations, this often makes me stand out as weird. I typically have to explain my reasons; I don't want to become an alcoholic and my grandfather drunk himself to death.

Sometimes I feel pride about my choice not to drink. Being that pride is a sin, I sometimes wonder if I should just take a drink so I don't have this area of pride in my life.

Now, I actually think it's ok to drink as long as you can control yourself, my reasons for not drinking are a fear of becoming a drunk. Probably irrational, but, I just see way more negatives coming from drinking than not.

I have the same issue with swearing, as I haven't swore since 1988.

Should I swear too and free myself of this pride?

I haven't smoked drugs and I'm pretty proud of it. Haven't gone to Vegas and gambled all my earnings, I'm proud of it. I'm also proud I'm Canadian. So now I'm going to have to move to the Vegas and buy some Canadian drugs?

 

[Cassidy]

I think there is pride and there's pride you know...like you can be proud of yourself for being strong enough to not succombing to the temptation of alcohol but it's when you become PROUD is where the problem lies. As you said, you are beginning to look down on people and I think that rather than give in and start drinking, why not fall back in Christ's arms and relax...allow him to react the way Christ reacts to this, he's not proud.

 

[Prizm]

The word "wine" in the bible can mean either alcoholic wine or non-alcoholic wine, depending on the context. You see scriptures condemning the drink that "bites like a serpent" (Prov. 23:32), and also scriptures such as the "new wine" that is "found in the cluster" (Isa. 65:8) which in that context implies that the wine referred to is not fermented.

I don't believe Christ changed water into alcoholic wine. The weddings in those days tended to last 2-3 days or so. Does it fit the character of God to create gallons and gallons of alcohol for a 3-day binge? Just like today's weddings, I hardly think everyone there would've 'drunk in moderation'. Not to mention wine tends to have more alcohol in it than beer, so there's the potential to get drunk quicker. I can't imagine Jesus' first miracle on earth was to promote an alcoholic binge which I'm sure fights, arguments, and drunken behaviour would've ensued by at least a few of the patrons.

What would Jesus say to those patrons that had too much to drink? "Well, you should've drunk responsibly. All things in moderation." Would He really create the best wine they've ever tasted, then condemn them when they drink too much? That's almost tempting them, and James 1:13 says God does not tempt anyone. Why would Jesus promote something that is warned about some 60 times in the Old Testament?

Let's take an even closer look. The master of the feast compliments the servants and says that most people start with the good wine, and "when the guests have well drunk" (John 2:10), then the inferior wine comes. But "you have kept the good wine until now!". So Jesus waits until everyone is "well drunk" and then caps off the party with the best alcoholic wine ever? Was there anyone left standing?

That doesn't ring true with my perspective of a righteous God, who says "be holy, for I am holy" (I Peter 1:16), and a God who gives good gifts to His children (Luke 11:13).

Now, I don't believe having a drink is a sin per se, although drunkenness clearly is (I Cor. 6:10) But why walk the line like a tight-rope? I'd rather try to "abstain from every appearance of evil" (I Thes. 5:22) and stay as far away from the line as possible.

What's the real reason many drink alcohol? To relax or to not be so uptight? Isn't that the slow effect of losing one's sobriety? We're called to be sober-minded and have self-control. Not allowing our minds to be given over to another influence, which causes us to speak or act foolishly. Which can still happen even when we're not fully drunk.

 

[KleinerApfel]

it sounds to me like you are saying you made a logical choice early on (Ben was right, that's legalism) and now you're reaping the reward of legalism, which is pride.
At the same time there's this tiny voice in your head trying to convince you that the only sure way to find out whether your choice has merit or is just a lot of hot air is to go ahead and take a bite of that apple.


don't bite.

pray instead, look at the issue from a Christian perspective this time, and then follow the leading of the Holy Spirit on this matter.

Excellent advice.

 

[Elijah2]

Hey A, I didn't drink either until I was 33 years of age, and Vietnam soon made the difference, and when I began to drink, I made up for all the drinks I didn't have.

Mate, keep away from it, because it proves nothing. And the pride you are talking about isn't pride, but the enemy screwing you into believe that you a proud person, because you don't drink.

Heavens if you want to partake socialising with others, then they wouldn't think you weired, particularly if you don't make an issue of it. I just tell them that I don't drink, and that's that!

Many say, they have a few drinks just to be social, and normally the person you are having a drink with is an unbeliever, so therefore, you are unequally yoked, they are getting stuck into the grog and you are not. SO what, why bow to peer pressure?

We all know that alcohol in the modern world of today, isn't a drink for socialising, but to make big profits for the breweries, and for Satan's shareholders. It also helps marriage breakups, kill people through drunken driving, and kills the organs of those who drink excessively. It's no different than poking money into a slot machine. It's a dangerous practice.

Yes, my wife has a drink off and on, and I don't berate her for drinking.

But, when any Christians comes along and says it's okay to drink, and sad as it is, they are the ones who drink to make themself feel good, warm, and fuzzy.

Who wants the spirit of alcohol to do that when the Holy Spirit is all we need to make us feel good, warm, and fuzzy.

Don't drink mate, then HE will be proud of you.

I was an alcoholic.

Be blessed in Jesus' Name.

 

[Alpine]

I haven't smoked drugs and I'm pretty proud of it. Haven't gone to Vegas and gambled all my earnings, I'm proud of it. I'm also proud I'm Canadian. So now I'm going to have to move to the Vegas and buy some Canadian drugs?

I don't know, but in my mind drugs aren't the same as alcohol. Illegal drugs tend to be more highly addictive and more dangerous for the body.

As you said, you are beginning to look down on people and I think that rather than give in and start drinking, why not fall back in Christ's arms and relax...allow him to react the way Christ reacts to this, he's not proud.

True.

Now, I don't believe having a drink is a sin per se, although drunkenness clearly is (I Cor. 6:10) But why walk the line like a tight-rope? I'd rather try to "abstain from every appearance of evil" (I Thes. 5:22) and stay as far away from the line as possible.

What's the real reason many drink alcohol? To relax or to not be so uptight? Isn't that the slow effect of losing one's sobriety? We're called to be sober-minded and have self-control. Not allowing our minds to be given over to another influence, which causes us to speak or act foolishly. Which can still happen even when we're not fully drunk.

Good points.

Hey A, I didn't drink either until I was 33 years of age, and Vietnam soon made the difference, and when I began to drink, I made up for all the drinks I didn't have.

Mate, keep away from it, because it proves nothing. And the pride you are talking about isn't pride, but the enemy screwing you into believe that you a proud person, because you don't drink.

Who wants the spirit of alcohol to do that when the Holy Spirit is all we need to make us feel good, warm, and fuzzy.

Don't drink mate, then HE will be proud of you.

I was an alcoholic.

Praise God you were rescued.

 

[pinetree]

Looks kinda good..