Drinking Alcoholic Beverages

[TheBear]

Is it moral and ethical?

 

[GAPCanadianChristian]

Is it moral and ethical?

I see it as one of those neutral things. Anything done in excess is problematic, however.

 

[Lynden1000]

Amoral - neither ethical nor unethical.

 

[Lanakila]

Is it moral and ethical?

People can do both immoral and unethical things under the influence of any drug. Alcohol is a drug. A legal drug but a drug none the less. Any drug taken to excess can be harmful in many ways. But, using alcohol carefully can be very relaxing and even fun on occasion.

 

[Abbadon]

Yup, everyone here's summed it up.

There's verses in the Bible, particularly Ecclesiastes and Proverbs, that support wassailing (that is, merry drinking), and I have to say, there's wisdom there. I can't remember the verses off of the top of my head right now, though. Sorry.

 

[justanobserver]

Myself, my views about alcohol is a tad slanted - I am a recoveing alcoholic BUT just cause I cannot have a drink has nothing to do with anyone else.

Is it ethical? Right now its legal and it is mentioned enough times in the bible as ok within moderation. is it moral? same answer. only the person drinking can answer that. As far as christianity (and I am not a christian) my only thought and thats all it would be is if a christian gets drunk and then tries to witness to me about change and all, I wouldnt listen and I would walk away. had this happen a while back.

 

[xAtheistx]

People who can't handle the heat (alcoholics) should get out of the kitchen.

Drink in moderation.

 

[Martinez]

Is it moral and ethical?

Now I have a diferent Idea about this one.

first of all, I think the original sin was to do with alcohol consumpsion.
some of the fruit had fallen off the tree and had fermented.
and well, you know the rest!

I think the consumption of alcohol is about the worst sin you can commit!

 

[stillsmallvoice]

Hi all!

I'll chime in with my orthodox Jewish $0.02 if I may.

I know that some fundamentalist Protestants have a big hang-up about alcohol and that some claim that Jesus never touched a drop of wine. If we allow that Jesus was born a Jew & lived as one (for at least part of his life, I suppose), this is impossible. The consumption of wine was part of Jewish practice then, just like it is now.

I suppose that anyone could make (unfermented) grape juice back then simply by squeezing/stomping grapes. I don't know about preserving the unfermented) grape juice for any length of time simply because the only ways to preserve foodstuffs way back then was by pickling, salting or drying (which would make the grape juice rather yucky! ).

Wine libations were an integral part of the Temple service, in the order of offerings (see Numbers 28 and 29). The Hebrew word for "its drink offering" is nisko & refers to wine, not grape juice. The specific reference to wine per se in Numbers 28:14 is held to be illustrative example that holds for all of the various holyday offerings enumerated in Numbers 28-29. Anyone who claims that w-i-n-e was not used in the Temple is saying the scriptural/historical equivalent of 2+2=5.

The blessing "Praised are You, Lord our God, King of the Universe, who has created the fruit of the vine" is said before drinking wine and grape juice (but not over grapes or raisins; apples and apple juice/oranges and orange juice, etc. also take different blessings).

On the Nazirite's having to abstain from wine (see Numbers 6:1-21), several of our Sages comment on the fact that at the conclusion of his vow, he had to bring (inter alia) a sin-offering. I believe that it is our very great medieval Sage, Nahmanides (http://www.ou.org/about/judaism/rabbis/ramban.htm), who says that the Nazirite had to bring a sin-offering because he had taken upon himself a vow (which Judaism frowns upon unless absolutely necessary) that entailed having to deny himself some of the good things which God has permitted us.

I think that wine, when properly used, can be a vehicle for holiness. When improperly used, it can be a vehicle for vile unholiness. Wine is, in effect, a kind of tool. It is neither evil nor good; only the use to which it is put and the ends to which it is used can be good or evil. (Even Milton refers to "misused wine.") The scriptures endorses neither teetotalism nor habitual drunkeness.

I read where the famous Protestant evangelist Billy Sunday, upon hearing that Prohibition had become law, said that, "The rein of tears is over...The slums will soon be only a memory. We will turn our prisons into factories and our jails into storehouses and comcribs" What a fool! The only people happier than him at that moment were all the gangsters & criminals. Organized crime in the USA made it to the big leagues thanks to Prohibition.

Be well!

ssv

 

[ChristianCenturion]

Hi all!

I'll chime in with my orthodox Jewish $0.02 if I may.

I know that some fundamentalist Protestants have a big hang-up about alcohol and that some claim that Jesus never touched a drop of wine. If we allow that Jesus was born a Jew & lived as one (for at least part of his life, I suppose), this is impossible. The consumption of wine was part of Jewish practice then, just like it is now.

I suppose that anyone could make (unfermented) grape juice back then simply by squeezing/stomping grapes. I don't know about preserving the unfermented) grape juice for any length of time simply because the only ways to preserve foodstuffs way back then was by pickling, salting or drying (which would make the grape juice rather yucky! ).

Wine libations were an integral part of the Temple service, in the order of offerings (see Numbers 28 and 29). The Hebrew word for "its drink offering" is nisko & refers to wine, not grape juice. The specific reference to wine per se in Numbers 28:14 is held to be illustrative example that holds for all of the various holyday offerings enumerated in Numbers 28-29. Anyone who claims that w-i-n-e was not used in the Temple is saying the scriptural/historical equivalent of 2+2=5.

The blessing "Praised are You, Lord our God, King of the Universe, who has created the fruit of the vine" is said before drinking wine and grape juice (but not over grapes or raisins; apples and apple juice/oranges and orange juice, etc. also take different blessings).

On the Nazirite's having to abstain from wine (see Numbers 6:1-21), several of our Sages comment on the fact that at the conclusion of his vow, he had to bring (inter alia) a sin-offering. I believe that it is our very great medieval Sage, Nahmanides (http://www.ou.org/about/judaism/rabbis/ramban.htm), who says that the Nazirite had to bring a sin-offering because he had taken upon himself a vow (which Judaism frowns upon unless absolutely necessary) that entailed having to deny himself some of the good things which God has permitted us.

I think that wine, when properly used, can be a vehicle for holiness. When improperly used, it can be a vehicle for vile unholiness. Wine is, in effect, a kind of tool. It is neither evil nor good; only the use to which it is put and the ends to which it is used can be good or evil. (Even Milton refers to "misused wine.") The scriptures endorses neither teetotalism nor habitual drunkeness.

I read where the famous Protestant evangelist Billy Sunday, upon hearing that Prohibition had become law, said that, "The rein of tears is over...The slums will soon be only a memory. We will turn our prisons into factories and our jails into storehouses and comcribs" What a fool! The only people happier than him at that moment were all the gangsters & criminals. Organized crime in the USA made it to the big leagues thanks to Prohibition.

Be well!

ssv

Hi stillsmallvoice,

I realize that you are referencing a few, or in the least, generalizing with the "fundamentalist Protestants", but as one that may qualify as such I thought I would point out something the prohibitionists seem to overlook:

Matthew 9:17
Neither do men pour new wine into old wineskins. If they do, the skins will burst, the wine will run out and the wineskins will be ruined. No, they pour new wine into new wineskins, and both are preserved."



Now what would make old wine skins "burst" if not the fermentation?
Good post BTW.

 

[Athene]

Now I have a diferent Idea about this one.

first of all, I think the original sin was to do with alcohol consumpsion.
some of the fruit had fallen off the tree and had fermented.
and well, you know the rest!

I think the consumption of alcohol is about the worst sin you can commit!

But a glass of wine every day is good for you, remember the thread over in liberal theology.

 

[ChristianCenturion]

But a glass of wine every day is good for you, remember the thread over in liberal theology.

That would depend on the size of the glass.
http://www.norwichunion.com/health/health-news/news-story.htm?id=1127981946&c=430016189

 

[kopilo]

If you are straightedge them you could consider drinking acohol(any amount) immoral.

If you are aware that under the influence of alcohol you have a very high probability of doing something else which is ethically or morally wrong, then maybe you could consider drinking to a certain point immoral.

If you are allergic to alcohol (and know it) and still drink then it could be considered intenionally harming yourself, which one could consider immoral.

If you consider the risks of moderate drinking alcohol to be greater then the benifits, then on a personal level it could be considered immoral once again to be harming yourself intenionally.
Risk and Benifits of Moderate Drinking Sources:
http://www.med.unc.edu/alcohol/education/benefits.html
http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/medicalnews.php?newsid=24458
http://www.infoaging.org/l-alco-03-risk-benefit.html

Basically if you enjoy drinking and are not harming anyone, harming yourself ot feel immoral by doing so, go right ahead.

 

[kopilo]

But a glass of wine every day is good for you, remember the thread over in liberal theology.

Goto the links in post #13

"In 1991, the CBS news program 60 Minutes ran a story called "The French Paradox" which suggested that drinking alcohol, or at least red wine, reduced the risk of heart disease. Many people considered this a medical recommendation to drink."

 

[Illuminatus]

Another excellent source on the benefits of drinking: http://www2.potsdam.edu/hansondj/AlcoholAndHealth.html

 

[Archivist]

Another excellent source on the benefits of drinking: http://www2.potsdam.edu/hansondj/AlcoholAndHealth.html

St. Paul even recommended that Timothy drink wine for health reasons.

 

[stillsmallvoice]

Hi all!

Hi stillsmallvoice...Good post BTW.

Thanks!

Care to join me in a http://www.taybehbeer.com/?

Be well!

ssv

 

[luvmyhubby]

Now I have a diferent Idea about this one.

first of all, I think the original sin was to do with alcohol consumpsion.
some of the fruit had fallen off the tree and had fermented.
and well, you know the rest!

I think the consumption of alcohol is about the worst sin you can commit!

Never heard before that original sin was to do with alcohol consumption or that the fruit had fermented. And if the consumption of alcohol is a sin - why did Jesus turn water into wine at a wedding when they ran out of wine?

 

[Martinez]

Never heard before that original sin was to do with alcohol consumption or that the fruit had fermented. And if the consumption of alcohol is a sin - why did Jesus turn water into wine at a wedding when they ran out of wine?

One word.

"Joke" people!

 

[Illuminatus]

Speaking of alcoholic consumption, I'm waiting for my delivery of Wild Turkey and Johnnie Walker to show up.