Dreams

[Glass*Soul]

Is it possible to sin in actuality in the course of a dream?

 

[.Mikha'el.]

I do not think so. I have exhibited behaviour in my dreams that I consider sinful, and have prayed that my dreams do not come to fruition.

 

[FSTDT]

Is it possible to sin in actuality in the course of a dream?

You know, that might be the only time when you cant sin. "Noctural emissions" and such.

 

[Glass*Soul]

You know, that might be the only time when you cant sin. "Noctural emissions" and such.

Why Not? Why are we not held responsible for the content of our dreams?

(I was thinking of dream content more than nocturnal emissions.)

 

[FSTDT]

Why Not? Why are we not held responsible for the content of our dreams?

If Christianity means being monitored by the Thought Police, even in your dreams, that is frightening.

(I was thinking of dream content more than nocturnal emissions.)

That comment was me trying to make a funny.

 

[Glass*Soul]

If Christianity means being monitored by the Thought Police, even in your dreams, that is frightening.

Christianity holds that we are responsible for the content of our thoughts, that to lust after someone is to commit adultery and to call someone a fool is to deserve hell fire. It holds that God knows the content of our thoughts and the intentions of our hearts.

My understanding is that the Catholic church teaches that we cannot sin while asleep and dreaming. I'm not aware of any official teaching from any other Christian churches.

I'm curious whether or why our dreams are exempt. They originate from within ourselves. We certainly can't blame them on someone else.

 

[In A Perfect World]

I never had free will in my dreams up until now. I have no idea why. For some reason I've been able to reason and read text in my dreams which has never happened before.

But anyway, no I don't think you can sin while sleeping. You are in another natural state where your actions do not harm others (unless you have a dream about fighting and smack your wife next to you!).

 

[DailyBlessings]

Yes, we are in a state of sin even while sleeping. It's true that they are unconscious, but so are many sins. From a certain point of view, anything an unbeliever does sinfully is unintentional, since they do not know that sin exists in the first place. But sin is sin nonetheless. We aren't saved by actions- or ignorance of our actions- but by the grace God has bestowed on us.

 

[FadingWhispers3]

The idea behind lust and calling someone a fool is not about thought policing. Although taken to the extreme that is exactly what is produced. Rather, it is an insight into behavior. Some people do things spur of the moment or on a whim. On the other hand, many people do things and thoughts proceed them.

If someone were to be blamed for thinking, then the point of the illustration was missed entirely. What then was the real point? Imagine if you will a situation where someone does nothing outwardly illegal, yet feels justified in internally hating the undeserving. There is nothing legally wrong, and it can be assured that thought policing is wrong, but not only do thoughts make actions more likely, thoughts can destroy the person who think as well.

The illustration is not to say that lust = adultery or that 'you fool' = murder. To say that it is cannot be more superficial an understanding. Instead, it is a call towards the importance of thought-life. But importance does not mean condemnation. For even if lust = adultery, which it surely does not, did Jesus condemn the aduteress? Pay heed then!

Again, we may take the example of the Pharisee whom Jesus alluded to as white washed tombs... clean on the outside wanting on the inside. Again, thought policing is not the key! We can understand this through its opposite... the prostitutes, lepers, tax collectors, etc whom Jesus accepted. Although society rejected them, it is said that God exalts them because the have sought after him. What does this mean? It isn't that your thoughts betray you, it is that putting on a show for everyone about self-righteousness is merely that. What does it benefit a person to be known by all to have good qualities yet himself lack them in truth? Like a person who stole the answers to a test without studying... no one knows but what is missing cannot be denied!

 

[In A Perfect World]

Yes, we are in a state of sin even while sleeping. It's true that they are unconscious, but so are many sins. From a certain point of view, anything an unbeliever does sinfully is unintentional, since they do not know that sin exists in the first place. But sin is sin nonetheless. We aren't saved by actions- or ignorance of our actions- but by the grace God has bestowed on us.

And people accuse me of having nihilistic and depressing worldviews

 

[DailyBlessings]

Sorry. It's not depressing to me, just the way things are. Do you think that humans are intrinsically virtuous?

 

[In A Perfect World]

Do you think that humans are intrinsically virtuous?

Honestly? Yes. Virtue helps survival and provides inspiration for those around. Make somebody's day and I'm willing to bet they'll make another person's day themselves.

 

[DailyBlessings]

Well, that's fine, but it doesn't seem much proved out by history. I suppose your view is more positive in a way. But mine is more honest. I don't really believe the doctrine of hell, but we do stray from the will of God. It's who we are.

 

[Higher]

I never had free will in my dreams up until now. I have no idea why. For some reason I've been able to reason and read text in my dreams which has never happened before.

But anyway, no I don't think you can sin while sleeping. You are in another natural state where your actions do not harm others (unless you have a dream about fighting and smack your wife next to you!).

That's called Lucid Dreaming. And it's pretty awesome, almost like an out of body experience. Once, I thought I was trying to run from a Tornado - Futile, of course. In anycase, I fell off my bed, and thought I fell off a wall. It was REALLY interesting, since I saw everything dreaming, I KNEW It was a dream, and I could control my err, "Real World" body too. As soon as I died in the dream I "woke up".

Other than that, I only remember a dream I've had every couple months or so. And their always weird, and make no sense, and I wake up before the climax. REALLY makes me angry.

As far as sinful dreams and such, I've never dreamed anything to my knowledge that Christians would consider sinful, but you have no control over your dreams anyway, unless it's lucid. But what does it matter if Jesus forgives all?

 

[Glass*Soul]

As far as sinful dreams and such, I've never dreamed anything to my knowledge that Christians would consider sinful, but you have no control over your dreams anyway, unless it's lucid. But what does it matter if Jesus forgives all?

If you don't have control over your dreams, what does? Something produces them in all their detail.

 

[Higher]

Well, I suppose some people can, or have Lucid Dreams regularly. I always just figured you dreamt whatever your mind thought up. There's no choice involved, at least that I've ever experienced. I've never gotten to pick which door I go through before a dream. Would be Cool though.

 

[Jetgirl]

I never had free will in my dreams up until now. I have no idea why. For some reason I've been able to reason and read text in my dreams which has never happened before.

A little off-topic, but if you keep a dream journal, or make a consentrated effort to remember your prior night's dreams throughout the day, your ability to dream lucidly will most likely get better.

I learned to lucid dream when I was about ten, and pretty much play choose-your-own-adventure all night now.

 

[TeddyKGB]

If you don't have control over your dreams, what does? Something produces them in all their detail.

Dreams are probably instances of non-systematic cortical activity that are pieced together by the subconscious. It can seem like there is a vaguely central theme, but the particulars are usually disjointed or unrelated.

 

[Glass*Soul]

Well, I suppose some people can, or have Lucid Dreams regularly. I always just figured you dreamt whatever your mind thought up. There's no choice involved, at least that I've ever experienced. I've never gotten to pick which door I go through before a dream. Would be Cool though.

As you say, it's your mind that made it up.

Is the "dreaming self" who plays the first person character in the dream your true self, or is it the mind that embroiders the plot? Does choosing to identify, in your waking hours, with one more than the other absolve you of responsibility for the content of the dream?

 

[Yusuf Evans]

For this question, you will get 50K different answers. There is no definitive answer. Do we have control over our dreams? I believe we do, unless it is a vision from the Lord. Those dreams in which we gratify ourselves are the worst kind. While we will be sumbitted to them, how we choose to follow that dream is entirely up to us. Praying to the Lord is the only way to find the answer to this question.