Dreamcatcher split a church.

[jennyren]

Recently, our church held a fundraiser for a certain community. The community was invited to donate items that would be given away as raffle prizes. One of the items donated by a non-christian was a dreamcatcher. A little girl from the community won the dreamcatcher in the raffle. Later the pastor was confronted by some of the church board members who said that they had to repent for taking part in such a sinful event, that the items allowed in the raffle should have been voted on as a board, that the pastor needed to rectify the situation by making a public apology to the community explaining how evil dreamcatchers are, that the pastor needed to take back the item from the little girl before it destroys her life. The pastor agreed that allowing the dreamcatcher in the raffle was not wise and he apologized to the church members that were offended. He also ageed that next time the raffle items will be voted on as a board. The pastor refused to make a public apology to the community and refused to "preach" to them about the evil of dreamcatchers. The pastor also refused to ask the little girl (unsaved) to give the dreamcatcher back so it could be destroyed. Because of this a deacon left the church and many people followed him.

My thoughts

What difference does it make to a non Christians if they have a dreamcatcher or not, without Jesus they are bound anyway. Condemning them will not bring them closer to Jesus. And when they do receive Jesus and receive the holy spirit, the Holy Spirit and word of God will teach them what is good for them and what is not. If the pastor had refused the gift of this non christian, it would have hardened that mans heart, no doubt. What about telling a little girl that she can't have the dreamcatcher, that it needed to be destroyed before it destroyed her life. Why are christians so hard on the lost?

 

[BobW188]

Because, let's face it, we like to stand in the Temple and thank God that we are not like others.
We are so uppity-snooty about "being saved," even though we had nothing to do with it.

 

[Ryan897]

why are dreamcatchers bad agian?

 

[jennyren]

when people give the dreamcatcher authority over their dreams, they are bound by the demonic forces that are free to operate by that power. Dreams may be pleasant to begin with but gradually become more frightening, instilling a spirit of fear/terror.

 

[Ryan897]

i was always tought that a dreamcatcher was to catch "bad dreams" made by demons to terroize us. i always had one and personally done see anything worng or agenst Jesus by having one


"
The Ojibwa believe that a dreamcatcher filters a person's dreams. According to Terri J. Andrews in the article "Legend of the Dream Catcher," about the Ojibwa nation in the magazine World & I, Nov. 1998 page 204, "Only good dreams would be allowed to filter through . . . Bad dreams would stay in the net, disappearing with the light of day."
It's recommended to hang the dream catcher above someone sleeping to guard against bad dreams. Good dreams pass through and slide down the feathers to the sleeper."


sorce wikipedia

 

[Bellicus]

A dreamcatcher is nothing but a decoration.

 

[Nadiine]

Because, let's face it, we like to stand in the Temple and thank God that we are not like others.
We are so uppity-snooty about "being saved," even though we had nothing to do with it.

please don't slap a label like that on us all.... I lean towards Calvanism in my approach to how I got saved - it's by God who chooses us.

So don't number me in that crowd pls. thanks

 

[Nadiine]

A dreamcatcher is nothing but a decoration.

(I can think of alot more attractive decorations if I was going to use one) lol

actually I disagree with this and I'd have nothing to do w/ them.

If you look at the purpose & intent of them, they're not biblical at all.
A piece of willow w/ animal parts, beads & feathers aren't God's prescribed remedy for anything disturbing us.

Coming from Native American leaders, they believed heavily in spirits (animal spirits/nature spirits) & this leader was given a "vision" to create this particular item specifically.
It sure didn't come from God. I truly believe these are of the demonic realms in symbolism and power.

People can have dreamcatchers in ignorance, but ignorance doesn't always keep us from harm.
If someone brought one to my home, I'd burn it and ask the Lord to cast anything supernatural attached to it.

I've already been down this road with trinkets & symbols and I got burned badly. They are NOT all harmless for sure.

 

[Nadiine]

We have to look at the origins of things. Then ask, is this something God prescribes? Is this God's way of handling our issues? Does God hand us trinkets & charms to help us thru things?

If we're having major nightmares, I think first we need to look for the source of them;
ask, did we dabble in the occult recently? Did we commit a certain sin that could have allowed Satan a 'doorway' to attack us? Repent if need be & renounce it.
Did we buy or acquire anything new that has some form of darkness involved with it? (check your vid games, movies, music, etc.) Those are some possible culprits.

Instead of a dreamcatcher, turn on uplifting Christian music (at nite, just have it playing very softly), PRAY before you go to bed - ask the Lord to guard your mind as you sleep, etc.

Why would any Christian use methods and place trust in a trinket or decoration while bypassing our Father in heaven who loves us?
What do we trust in more?

 

[LadyMist]

Nadiine, I think I couldn't have said it better myself. When I read the first post I was surprised that dreamcatchers were seen as not harmful, even if it's to the innocent. Well Innocent people play with ouija boards, they read their horoscope, they consult the stars and have their palms read. These are all supernatural devices. We dream when in a vulnerable state, I have to point out how dangerous it is to open that up to the spirits.

The main reason god does not want us consulting other supernatural sources is that He wants to be our guide. He has promised in Psalm 32 "I will guide you" In John 10 Jesus said, "My sheep hear my voice"

The bible is full of promises of God for guidance, help and correction. Why don't we just go to God? And yes even if she is a nonbeliever, she is a child. What does the bible say about the least of these? Giving them a dreamcatcher is steering a easilly influenced young mind in the wrong direction and that makes us responsible.

 

[Trelawrence]

I think in today's society, there is an innate urge to neutralize spiritual things. I think we should be careful with such issues, and should not ignore seemingly benign ojects or ideals.

When I was a kid, I saw a relative do a pagan ritual in front of a wooden image. Scared me out of mind.

Decades later and continents away, at a retirement party for a newly retired co-worker, I saw a statuette made to the same god having a place of honor on the homeowner's mantel beside other "ornate" imported artifacts. It was beautiful, it was a decoration, and it was also an idol.

This is not a treatise riling against non-western art, or a lecture on the occult. Just a note that everything is not as benign as we would like for them to be.

Again, I hide behind my catchphrase: all about edification, right?

 

[Nadiine]

Nadiine, I think I couldn't have said it better myself. When I read the first post I was surprised that dreamcatchers were seen as not harmful, even if it's to the innocent. Well Innocent people play with ouija boards, they read their horoscope, they consult the stars and have their palms read. These are all supernatural devices. We dream when in a vulnerable state, I have to point out how dangerous it is to open that up to the spirits.

The main reason god does not want us consulting other supernatural sources is that He wants to be our guide. He has promised in Psalm 32 "I will guide you" In John 10 Jesus said, "My sheep hear my voice"

The bible is full of promises of God for guidance, help and correction. Why don't we just go to God? And yes even if she is a nonbeliever, she is a child. What does the bible say about the least of these? Giving them a dreamcatcher is steering a easilly influenced young mind in the wrong direction and that makes us responsible.

That's the key question, why don't we go to God first?

It's my humble opinion that BECUZ people are so accustomed not to go to God first, that they do get into such spiritual trouble in the first place.
It's like people have a belief in God yet don't fully walk in faith and trust Him in their life.

I so agree about His promises, He keeps them and after serving longer and longer, He's never failed in them. Yes, it often feels like He's "late" in replying or acting lol, but His timing is perfect even when it seems late.

nice post,=)

 

[Nadiine]

I think in today's society, there is an innate urge to neutralize spiritual things. I think we should be careful with such issues, and should not ignore seemingly benign ojects or ideals.

When I was a kid, I saw a relative do a pagan ritual in front of a wooden image. Scared me out of mind.

Decades later and continents away, at a retirement party for a newly retired co-worker, I saw a statuette made to the same god having a place of honor on the homeowner's mantel beside other "ornate" imported artifacts. It was beautiful, it was a decoration, and it was also an idol.

This is not a treatise riling against non-western art, or a lecture on the occult. Just a note that everything is not as benign as we would like for them to be.

Again, I hide behind my catchphrase: all about edification, right?

Wow, that's really interesting and amazing.

People who have come out of the occult are first to attest to the meanings and spirits attached to certain items.
Those voodoo dolls are very real and they do bring curses with spells put onto them. It's no wonder God was so strict and adamant about idol images being made or having them.

Ignorance doesn't keep us from harm that can come from it. In fact, it just keeps us blind to it as a source of any trouble (or our blindness to even realizing we're in spiritual trouble).

 

[Trelawrence]

Wow, that's really interesting and amazing.

People who have come out of the occult are first to attest to the meanings and spirits attached to certain items.
Those voodoo dolls are very real and they do bring curses with spells put onto them. It's no wonder God was so strict and adamant about idol images being made or having them.

Ignorance doesn't keep us from harm that can come from it. In fact, it just keeps us blind to it as a source of any trouble (or our blindness to even realizing we're in spiritual trouble).

Well said.

 

[codya517]

Hmmm interesting points. I have a small dreamcatcher, don't really believe in it or anything, or pay any attention to it at all (until I found this thread) in fact i moved it to replace it with a gift that hangs on the wall and says "God gave us a new kind of Life, Let Love guide it.". Interesting if that gift had a larger role than I thought, it was a gift i received a few days after getting saved. But now that I have given it thought, I really don't like it at all and in fact I get a feeling of dread from it and feel a bit more sensitive to what it is, that it's a little dark and comes from the "wrong side" of things. Has a bit of a threatening feel to it. So how do I destroy it?

 

[Nadiine]

Hmmm interesting points. I have a small dreamcatcher, don't really believe in it or anything, or pay any attention to it at all (until I found this thread) in fact i moved it to replace it with a gift that hangs on the wall and says "God gave us a new kind of Life, Let Love guide it.". Interesting if that gift had a larger role than I thought, it was a gift i received a few days after getting saved. But now that I have given it thought, I really don't like it at all and in fact I get a feeling of dread from it and feel a bit more sensitive to what it is, that it's a little dark and comes from the "wrong side" of things. Has a bit of a threatening feel to it. So how do I destroy it?

here's a page from a warfare site (I'm not familiar w/ the site at all, just found in a random google -- but the principles of objects are the same I've learned in spiritual warfare from good sources:

For instance, do you know what the New Agers are doing? (By the way, New Agers are not really new. They come from Nimrod, of ancient Babylonia!)
They are putting spells on things they make themselves, saying they are made by ancient people. People buy them, too. We were in a home once in which the children played with “dream catchers.”
Most of the New Age things that are in round shapes are channels for demons, such as wreaths, leis (flowered necklace wreaths) from Hawaii, and some kinds of necklaces.

Tarot cards, Ouija boards, crystals, and dream-catchers are only a few of these kinds of objects. The Indians make the dream-catchers to weave spells with. “Oh, but they are just funny little things!” No, they are not!

If you are asking information from a crystal ball, whether it be in the form of a pendant or something you hold in your hand, get rid of it! You’re supposed to be going to God for information!
Those objects are evil and are meant for evil. If you have them, get rid of them! At least, that’s what I would do in my house.
http://www.christian-faith.com/bible-studies/cursestoblessings9.html

Personally, what I'd do is stick it in a bag so nobody else will find it & take it, and toss it in a dumpster somewhere.

I'd go back into my house & pray & renounce having it (even in ignorance - this was done by Israel in the OT) & cast off anything that could of come thru it. (always in Jesus' name).

As far as that site page, alot may think that he's nuts (I did when I first read all this stuff, but I had gotten burned by having objects, so I did believe it.
I just had a harder time w/ a few things on the list - like flowers, lei's, etc. Even still, whether or not those certain things are fine doesn't nullify the danger in alot of other things that are true & the principle of objects being "portals" -giving them right- for spirits to operate against us)

I'll try to find more links of help/info

 

[Nadiine]

great info on how demons gain rights of entry --

http://www.greatbiblestudy.com/legalrights.php

 

[Ryan897]

We have to look at the origins of things. Then ask, is this something God prescribes? Is this God's way of handling our issues? Does God hand us trinkets & charms to help us thru

well the orgional purpous was for very small kids to feal safe because of "the buggy man" idk what they called it back then. but it was similar to a nightlight. a placebo of sorts. i dont think much of a dreamcatchers i think they are ok. they look kool . i do have some native american blood (like 5 drops) in me and i see it more as art than of a door way for the devil

dont get me worng i understand your point i just dont think its that big a deal. and as for the people walking out on the church i think thats a little overbord

 

[ItIsMeAgain]

I just don't believe that dreamcatchers, or any other objects of the sort, pose a spritual risk to anyone. I don't believe that we live in a world of magic, where spells, incantations and charms have power, or allow demons and such to have power over us. God weilds the only spiritual authority in this world or the next, and no combination of sticks, strings or feathers can challenge that authority. My guess is that the people who left that church were just looking for an excuse and had other reasons.

 

[Nadiine]

I just don't believe that dreamcatchers, or any other objects of the sort, pose a spritual risk to anyone. I don't believe that we live in a world of magic, where spells, incantations and charms have power, or allow demons and such to have power over us. God weilds the only spiritual authority in this world or the next, and no combination of sticks, strings or feathers can challenge that authority. My guess is that the people who left that church were just looking for an excuse and had other reasons.

The problem is, authority is handed to your enemy when you walk into their territory.
Satan does have rights on this earth - spiritual rights given to him by God.
Otherwise, we wouldn't have strongholds or Satan even being able to blind anyone for that matter.

People who haven't studied the occult or read information from converted occultists won't believe the principles & going's on where this stuff is concerned.... that is until it bites them and they can actually see it.
(and like my post mentioned, sometimes people are blinded from seeing it becuz they already have or have done stuff to warrent the attack.

But I used to think like you do before I had it happen to me firsthand.
My husband and Baptist family all saw it and now believe the same.

There's a reason God forbid His people to take certain booty from other nations or any idols (or make idols) of any kind.

You also might want to do a study in Ezekiel of the demonic creatures that were drawn on the walls of God's inner temple - God's glory left that place. Symbols are very significant and spells CAN be put onto things.