Draft on The Sneak

desi · Jun 8, 2004

mikie8 said:
its been on the cards for at least two years if you have watched the news closly .
dick cheny said america will go to war with 40-50 countries . a draft is the only way this is possible

Mikie8, you're right there is no call for rudeness. Hence, misquoting Dick Cheney, as defined by your own link, was unnecessary. Your following assumption is based on your erronious quote. The truth is interesting enough without manipulating it for whatever reason.

Gunny · Jun 9, 2004

lister4ever said:
Technically speaking Islam serves the same "God" as christianity, they simply choose to believe that Christ was not the son of god, and the the messiah is yet to come.

Biblically speaking, they do not serve the same God (The Father-The Son[Jesus Christ] & The Holy Spirit).

mikie8 · Jun 9, 2004

http://www.whitehouse.gov/vicepresident/news-speeches/speeches/vp20011115.html

http://www.guardian.co.uk/waronterror/story/0,1361,596403,00.html

lister4ever · Jun 9, 2004

I am not speaking biblically, because i do not accept the bible as being absolute truth. I speak in terms of general theology - Islam and Christianity both have common roots. I am of the opinion that they are simply different perspectives of the same thing, but that is a discussion for another thread, as it has very little to do with this ones topic.

Agrippa · Jun 9, 2004

mikie8 said:
http://www.whitehouse.gov/vicepresident/news-speeches/speeches/vp20011115.html

http://www.guardian.co.uk/waronterror/story/0,1361,596403,00.html

Did you read those articles? You said: "dick cheny said america will go to war with 40-50 countries".

What Cheney actually said was "Well, there are a great many places around the world where there are cells of the al Qaeda organization; maybe as many as 40 or 50 countries. And we're working now with the services of other countries and other governments to try to wrap those organizations up, and we'll continue to work to dry up their financial assets and resources where it's appropriate. We'll be prepared to use military action should that be required in order to close down these operations." It will work with other countries to shut down the financial assets of al Queda cells and use military operations against those cells if necessary.

tintexas · Jun 11, 2004

lister4ever said:
but that is a discussion for another thread, as it has very little to do with this ones topic.

You brought it into the discussion, we simply answered you.

pieman3141 · Jun 11, 2004

BTW Our borders are open.

irish · Jun 14, 2004

I do know that Charlie Rangle is the representative pushing for the draft, not the administration. He is a democrat who believes that rich white kids don't join the military ( they do) and he thinks they should serve so he wants the draft.

This appears to be a democrat bill all around.
"HR163 was introduced by Rep. Charlie Rangel on January 7th, 2003. Charlie Rangel is a radical Democrat for the state of New York. He frequently proclaims the military to be "racist" because of its "lack" of caucasians.
-Additionally, HR163 was co-sponsored by the following Representatives: Neil Abercrombie [HI-1], Corrine Brown [FL-3], Donna Christensen [VI], William Lacy Clay [MO-1], John Conyers, Jr. [MI-14], Elijah E. Cummings [MD-7], Alcee L. Hastings [FL-23], Sheila Jackson-Lee [TX-18], John Lewis [GA-5], Jim McDermott [WA-7], James P. Morgan [VA-8], Eleanor Holmes Norton [DC], Fortney Pete Stark [CA-13], Nydia M. Velazquez [NY-12]. ALL OF THESE REPRESENTATIVES ARE DEMOCRAT.
-HR163s last action was taken on February 3rd, 2003. The committee requested executive comment from the Department of Defense (in other words, Sec. Donald Rumsfelds opinion). To paraphrase his words: There is no need for a draft and I dont see one happening anytime in the future."

quoted From mr brown net

irish · Jun 14, 2004

on the off topic subject......

hrmmm if you research allah a bit you will find that he was a moon god and had 3 daughters. the daughters were deleted later. Yup, the followers of Allah changed their minds about him having 3 daughters.

The Christian discription of God is not even close to the discription of Allah. They are not the same by any stretch of the imagination.

lister4ever · Jun 15, 2004

id love to know where you read that wonderful piece of information? it certainly wasnt in the koran. The same argument can be used against christianity, there is evidence and theories (more supported than anything i have found regarding islam) which points to many more books that have not survived to the bibles current incarnation, as well as other discrepencies with "truth" of the bible.

Judaism does not follow the model of the Trinity either, so is the Jewish god not the same as the christian god? Christianty still follows much of the old testament, and if you take the time to read the Koran, you will see that most of the old testament is repeated there. Like it or not, the theological figure of God and Allah are based on the same history, and both tell the same story. To say Islam doesnt share the same God is to say that Judaism doesnt share the same god, and if that is the case, then you must in turn deny the Old Testament, and the very basis of your own religion.

zoomie71 · Jun 15, 2004

Sorry, but similarity and historical progression do not, as a matter of course, prove a common source. There's no doubt that the God spoken of in the Old Testament and that spoken of in the New are one and the same. While modern day Judaism does not accept the interpretation of the Trinity that most branches of Christianity ascribe to, the evidence for a Trinitarian (triune) presentation of God is quite clear in the Old Testament. If you care to read a bit more, here's a good web-site to go to:

http://answering-islam.org.uk/Trinity/otreason.html

That Islam encorporates selected aspects of Jewish history and Christian history into its belief system does not prove that their basic theological center is the same.

There is so much in Christianity (rooted in its view of who God is) that stands in direct opposition to Islam that you cannot possibly draw the conclusion that the triune God who is Father, Son (Jesus), and Holy Spirit can be the same impersonal god of Islam. If John 14:6 is true (and I believe it is), when it says "no man comes to the Father except through me," then any other system of salvation that is not through Christ (such as Islam) cannot possibly also be true. It matters not that they give assent to Christ's historical existance, or even that some Muslims may refer to Jesus as "the christ" when their definition is quite different. They deny the deity of Christ and the crucifixion and in denying the crucifixion, they implicitly deny the resurrection. Christ's deity, death and resurrection are the cornerstones of our faith and the very essence of the God we worship. To deny them is to deny Him.

Scripture further says (in good trinitarian fashion), "there is one God and one mediator between God and man, the man Christ Jesus." If this is true (and I believe it is), then you cannot also have another - the prophet of Islam - who claimed to be the final arbiter of God's revelation who is also true. Either one or the other is true. Both cannot be. And neither can they be the same God.

I hope you will think long and hard about the exclusive claims of Christ.

Regards,

Zoomie

irish · Jun 15, 2004

Lister,

Go to a library. That will clear up your confusion right away. Look at the archaeology studies. They just changed the name of the moon god slightly.

Islam is most closely related to the hindu religion not christianity. Allah is definitely the moon god. he was only one of their gods back then. They had several until they figured out that they could not recruit Christians or Jews with polytheism.
Then they deleted the daughters and the rest of the gods and reinvented the biggest one. (Allayiah)

Hint... all of their "holy" days revolve around the moon phases.

God does not hate jews. Allah apparantly does. God loves the sinner .. Allah does not.

Lots of differences, major differences there... check it out for yourself.

snoopyloopysk8a · Jun 16, 2004

inquisitor_11 said:
I don't remember reading that in the bible.

Me either.

snoopyloopysk8a · Jun 16, 2004

lister4ever said:
The west is the target because it is the focus of wealth. It is easy to inspire poor, un-educated and very religious masses to hate the largely secular and rich society that is prevalent in the west. Also the cultural standards that are more and more common in the wealthy nations in the eyes of any religious fundamentalist go against God (whatever name they call him) and thus the people who follow those standards naturally become targets for extremism. It is easy to justify the killing of the wealthy and decadent when you yourself are poor and forced to live humbly.

Breece · Jun 17, 2004

As of today i have heard that this draft is to take place in 90 days. Supposedly the news will be out with it in 30 days. I heared from a friend of a military person that it has something to do with Iran, Korea and China backing them. Is there any truth to this? Where can i go to get more info on this?

Your new sister in Christ

breece

pcm16205 · Jun 24, 2004

lister4ever said:
id love to know where you read that wonderful piece of information? it certainly wasnt in the koran. The same argument can be used against christianity, there is evidence and theories (more supported than anything i have found regarding islam) which points to many more books that have not survived to the bibles current incarnation, as well as other discrepencies with "truth" of the bible.

Judaism does not follow the model of the Trinity either, so is the Jewish god not the same as the christian god? Christianty still follows much of the old testament, and if you take the time to read the Koran, you will see that most of the old testament is repeated there. Like it or not, the theological figure of God and Allah are based on the same history, and both tell the same story. To say Islam doesnt share the same God is to say that Judaism doesnt share the same god, and if that is the case, then you must in turn deny the Old Testament, and the very basis of your own religion.

It seems like ur trying to say God and allah r practically the same and a real muslim will tell u they aren't in fact they'd be down rite insulted at the suggestion.allah hates the jews,God doesn't God doesn't ask people to kill innocent people allah does and that's just the small differences.

lister4ever · Jul 13, 2004

firstly whoever said that islam is in ANY WAY similar to Hinduism needs go read in the library themselves. Islam and Hinduism have always existed in a state of hatred of each other, partly the reason behind the India (majority hindu) and Pakistan (majority Muslim) conflict. Hiduism is Polytheistic, while Islam in Monotheistic. The entire hindu mythology in no way relates to Islam, since they have completrly different origins and roots and follow a completely different spiritual doctrine.

It seems like ur trying to say God and allah r practically the same and a real muslim will tell u they aren't in fact they'd be down rite insulted at the suggestion.allah hates the jews,God doesn't God doesn't ask people to kill innocent people allah does and that's just the small differences.

"Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live." Those little biblical words inspired thousands of painful and inhumane deaths at the hands of the inquisition. Thousands more were slaughtered during the Crusades, in the name of "God". Hitler believed he was fulfilling the will of God. These atrocities, far worse than anything the islamic world has committed thus far, including 9/11, were all committed in the name of the Christian God, by his devout followers.

Allah is no more vengeful in his teachings than Christ, the problem is the people who read these teachings and interperet them. Christianity has by and large passed the state of fundamentalism, there are few who preach the death and destruction line that was so well used a few hundred years ago. The religion is not at fault any more so than Christianty is at fault for the Inquisition etc. it is the fault of the people who read and interperet the religion and mis-construe its intended message.

vatuck · Jul 13, 2004

irish said:
Go to a library. That will clear up your confusion right away. Look at the archaeology studies. They just changed the name of the moon god slightly.

You know, I had heard that somewhere also, but I don't remember where, so I did a search on the internet and found this site. This is not where I heard it, though. Middle age and memory loss is beginning to set in.

http://www.chick.com/information/religions/islam/allah2.asp

Real Corona · Jul 13, 2004

inquisitor_11 said:
Why is it that western countries are the targets of islamic extremists? Why are these people able to find support so easily?

When you perceive a country to have invaded your people and currently murdering and oppressing your people, you don't take kindly to it. And you don't like the people that support it.

That country is Isreal.

vatuck · Jul 13, 2004

Back to the subject at hand. I saw an interview with Montel Williams once. Just as in my previous post above, I don't remember who was doing the interviewing. He believes that the draft should be brought back. His idea is that everyone should serve their country somehow, not necessarily in the military, but there are other ways to publically serve this country. That really does not sound like a bad idea. More pride in our country as a whole would be of great benefit to us.

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