Dr. Sam Storms on Eschatology

[BABerean2]

Dr. Storms is a graduate of Dallas Theological Seminary, and is author of the book "Kingdom Come".

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[BABerean2]

Dr. Storms continuing series on the Book of Revelation:
He is pastor at Bridgeway Church.

Bridgeway Church: Oklahoma City, OK

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[Douggg]

Dr. Storms is a graduate of Dallas Theological Seminary, and is author of the book "Kingdom Come".

What? He is Amil?

It sounds to me he has a beef with the Dallas Theological Seminary.

His definition of eschatology is amiss. His explanation of dispensationalism is also amiss.

Jonthan Edwards is experiencing the millennium right now?

The beast is the collective image of all the antichrist activity over the last 1900 years?

And to think Sam Storms is a preacher. There is more to being a preacher than putting on a suit and having a nice haircut, and a degree in theology.

 

[BABerean2]

It sounds to me he has a beef with the Dallas Theological Seminary.

Yes. He discovered that the Two Peoples of God doctrine of modern Dispensational Theology, which is taught by the seminary, does not agree with scripture...

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[Choose Wisely]

Yes. He discovered that the Two Peoples of God doctrine of modern Dispensational Theology, which is taught by the seminary, does not agree with scripture...

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[jgr]

Homer attended DTS?

 

[Douggg]

Yes. He discovered that the Two Peoples of God doctrine of modern Dispensational Theology, which is taught by the seminary, does not agree with scripture...

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Yes. He discovered that the Two Peoples of God doctrine of modern Dispensational Theology, which is taught by the seminary, does not agree with scripture...

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BAB2, are you getting "two peoples of God, two destiny's" phrasing that you are using in your posts here, from listing to Sam Storm? Is that where you getting you view, listening to him?

 

[BABerean2]

BAB2, are you getting "two peoples of God, two destiny's" phrasing that you are using in your posts here, from listing to Sam Storm? Is that where you getting you view, listening to him?

No.

Former Dispensationalist Jerry Johnson uses the same term below.

The term "Two Peoples of God" (the Church and Israel) is commonly used by Dispensationalists, also.

When I first came to this forum, others were using the term as "2P2P", which means the same thing.

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[seventysevens]

God called the Israelite people His chosen people , he set them apart from all Gentiles , the Jewish people are among this group by maternal birth
Gentiles are not included in this group at birth , gentiles are GRAFTED IN
Like taking a branch from a tree and grafting it into another different type of tree and it grows into that different tree - the two become one - but accepting that the one is comprised of two different types of trees.

There are Jews that accept Jesus as Messiah and there are Jews that still hate that fact and deny it -deny Jesus
Scripture states that a remnant of Jews will be a part of God's kingdom as well as Gentiles that have accepted Jesus , the two are of the gentiles that accept Jesus and the Jews that accept Jesus have become as one , Prophetically there will be Jews that will be purged from the land just as they were when Moses came down from the mountain when meeting God
calling them a two people doctrine is a misunderstanding and incorrect teaching

 

[Douggg]

No.

Former Dispensationalist Jerry Johnson uses the same term below.

The term "Two Peoples of God" (the Church and Israel) is commonly used by Dispensationalists, also.

When I first came to this forum, others were using the term as "2P2P", which means the same thing.

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The speaker in that video is creating a lie - pure and simple. He leaves out the issue of salvation. (I am not defending dispenstationalism. I just don't like the tactics he is using).

Instead, he leads the listener to ASSUME that "two peoples of God" - Israel and the Church - that both are saved. He cagey leaves out that MAJOR point.

The Church and the Israel are separate entities. But that doesn't imply two ways of salvation.

The speaker is promoting "reform theology"....that the Church has become Israel. But he is using deceptive tactics in doing so. He doesn't mention that in his belief system that the Church has become Israel.

BAB2, out of curiosity, can you find some dispensationalist doctrine video, by dispensationalists themselves, that there are two ways to be saved from the penalty of one's sins ?

2P2P, to me, doesn't mean two ways of salvation. I would ditch the term because it is confusing and misleading. There are prophecies biblically pertaining to Israel that are separate from the church. And there are prophecies biblically regarding the church that are separate from Israel.

 

[BABerean2]

God called the Israelite people His chosen people , he set them apart from all Gentiles , the Jewish people are among this group by maternal birth
Gentiles are not included in this group at birth , gentiles are GRAFTED IN
Like taking a branch from a tree and grafting it into another different type of tree and it grows into that different tree - the two become one - but accepting that the one is comprised of two different types of trees.

There are Jews that accept Jesus as Messiah and there are Jews that still hate that fact and deny it -deny Jesus
Scripture states that a remnant of Jews will be a part of God's kingdom as well as Gentiles that have accepted Jesus , the two are of the gentiles that accept Jesus and the Jews that accept Jesus have become as one , Prophetically there will be Jews that will be purged from the land just as they were when Moses came down from the mountain when meeting God
calling them a two people doctrine is a misunderstanding and incorrect teaching

They were no Jews by maternal birth in the Bible.
Ruth was a Moabite, who was in the genealogy that produced King David, and eventually Christ.
Ruth married Boaz, who was the son of Rahab, the harlot.
The twelve tribes were from Jacob's sons, instead of daughters.
You are referring to modern Orthodox Judaism, which is based on the Babylonian Talmud.

When the Church began on the Day of Pentecost almost all of its members were Israelites.
See Acts 2:36 where Peter referred to the crowd as "all the house of Israel".
On that day about 3,000 Israelites accepted the New Covenant promised in Jeremiah 31:31-34.

The Church as a whole has never been a "Gentile Church".

The Church is made up of all those who place their faith in Christ, no matter what their bloodline would be.
(See Romans 11:1, and James 1:1-3.)

Based on the verse below there is only one people of God.

Joh 10:16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.

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[Douggg]

They were no Jews by maternal birth in the Bible.
Ruth was a Moabite, who was in the genealogy that produced King David, and eventually Christ.
Ruth married Boaz, who was the son of Rahab, the harlot.
The twelve tribes were from Jacob's sons, instead of daughters.
You are referring to modern Orthodox Judaism, which is based on the Babylonian Talmud.

When the Church began on the Day of Pentecost almost all of its members were Israelites.
See Acts 2:36 where Peter referred to the crowd as "all the house of Israel".
On that day about 3,000 Israelites accepted the New Covenant promised in Jeremiah 31:31-34.

The Church as a whole has never been a "Gentile Church".

The Church is made up of all those who place their faith in Christ, no matter what their bloodline would be.
(See Romans 11:1, and James 1:1-3.)

Based on the verse below there is only one people of God.

Joh 10:16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.

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BaAB2, I can point to the nation of Israel on the globe. Can you do the same with the church?

__________________________________________________________

No Jews in the bible by virtue of their mother? Only their father?

Jesus was a Jew by virtue of his mother. He didn't have a biological human father.

 

[seventysevens]

The Church as a whole has never been a "Gentile Church".
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Lol no one has stated such a thing - but there are Gentiles who became the church as a result of the Jews rejecting Jesus (Just as some do today) and there was discussion amongst the apostles that the Gentiles should follow the Jewish traditions after they become a part of the church , but then it was decided they did not have to because they were Gentiles

Based on the verse below there is only one people of God.

Joh 10:16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.

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From what I have seen this whole notion that there are 2 peoples of God is nothing more than a smoke screen from people who want to teach that since the Jews rejected Jesus that the Christians who were grafted into the people of God were pushing to say that the Jews were no longer the chosen people of God and that the Christian church has thus become the chosen people - as a result there cam a backlash outcry about it and the scriptures that declare the Israel the Jews have been and will always be the chosen people of God - but the Christian gentiles are now grafted into the chosen people of God and have not superseded the Jewish people , but there are those who choose to downplay the prophetic scriptures that apply to Israel being reborn as a national state and the prophecies that pertain to what will be in Israel during the End times . There are specific prophecies that speak directly to their being a remnant of Jews that reject Jesus will accept Jesus and will join the Body of Christ church - whereas there are no scriptures that are directly relating that specific gentiles that rejected Jesus will be saved because the context of the Jews rejecting Jesus is tied directly to the matter that the Jews were the original chosen people of God
People who continually push this matter present themselves to be like those that want to put white supremacy or a black Jesus to simply try to lift themselves up and put others down which is something that Jesus detests strongly - but that is religion Not true Christianity

 

[jgr]

Lol no one has stated such a thing - but there are Gentiles who became the church as a result of the Jews rejecting Jesus (Just as some do today) and there was discussion amongst the apostles that the Gentiles should follow the Jewish traditions after they become a part of the church , but then it was decided they did not have to because they were Gentiles

From what I have seen this whole notion that there are 2 peoples of God is nothing more than a smoke screen from people who want to teach that since the Jews rejected Jesus that the Christians who were grafted into the people of God were pushing to say that the Jews were no longer the chosen people of God and that the Christian church has thus become the chosen people - as a result there cam a backlash outcry about it and the scriptures that declare the Israel the Jews have been and will always be the chosen people of God - but the Christian gentiles are now grafted into the chosen people of God and have not superseded the Jewish people , but there are those who choose to downplay the prophetic scriptures that apply to Israel being reborn as a national state and the prophecies that pertain to what will be in Israel during the End times . There are specific prophecies that speak directly to their being a remnant of Jews that reject Jesus will accept Jesus and will join the Body of Christ church - whereas there are no scriptures that are directly relating that specific gentiles that rejected Jesus will be saved because the context of the Jews rejecting Jesus is tied directly to the matter that the Jews were the original chosen people of God
People who continually push this matter present themselves to be like those that want to put white supremacy or a black Jesus to simply try to lift themselves up and put others down which is something that Jesus detests strongly - but that is religion Not true Christianity

If you're defining Jews by DNA, then everyone has it.

Abraham lineage

DNA Tests Could Fulfill God’s Promise to Abraham by Revealing Millions of Jews. But How Jewish is Jewish Enough?

Israel in all of Us? Research finds 'Jewish genes' in unusual places

Gentiles were included in Israel from the very beginning based on compliance with the Old Covenant:

Genesis 17:12
And he that is eight days old shall be circumcised among you, every man child in your generations, he that is born in the house, or bought with money of any stranger, which is not of thy seed.

God's chosen people have only ever been those of faith and obedience.

There have never been any other criteria.

 

[seventysevens]

If you're defining Jews by DNA, then everyone has it.

No I am not but if I were there would be a minimum percentage requirement to qualify as the true Jew , as with the mixed heritages it simply does not apply to say if you have 1 percent DNA then you are considered whatever you want to be whenever it is convent ,iirc it was stated in order to be a true native American Indian it was something like 25 -30 % to qualify - for Jews there will be a maternal qualifier

 

[Douggg]

God's chosen people have only ever been those of faith and obedience.

jgr, any gentile who thinks by virtue of having become a Christian are the Israel of God have duped themselves.

Of Israel, not all of them, are the Israel of God. It simply means by rejecting Jesus they are not right with God.

Being a Christian is to be a new creation in Christ, neither Jew nor Gentile, beyond national origin, or birth according to the flesh.

I am an American - but it has no bering on my being right with God. Same thing with the Israelites.

 

[jgr]

Of Israel, not all of them, are the Israel of God.

The only Israel that God recognizes are those of faith and obedience.

The same is true of Gentiles.

Therefore, all who are of faith and obedience qualify as the Israel of God.

The Israel of God is "ethnic-less".

Faith and obedience are His only critera.

 

[jgr]

No I am not but if I were there would be a minimum percentage requirement to qualify as the true Jew , as with the mixed heritages it simply does not apply to say if you have 1 percent DNA then you are considered whatever you want to be whenever it is convent ,iirc it was stated in order to be a true native American Indian it was something like 25 -30 % to qualify - for Jews there will be a maternal qualifierView attachment 224100 View attachment 224101

Given DNA's complete irrelevance to God, it should also be of complete irrelevance to us.

 

[Douggg]

The only Israel that God recognizes are those of faith and obedience.

This is what I don't like about reform theology. You are skirting the issue of salvation. Not all of Israel is the Israel of God - because they reject Jesus.

The same is true of Gentiles.

Therefore, all who are of faith and obedience qualify as the Israel of God.

The Israel of God is "ethnic-less".

Faith and obedience are His only critera.

Why aren't you saying salvation? It is not the same of Gentiles, the bible doen't say for example not all of Argentina is the Argentina of God.

 

[jgr]

This is what I don't like about reform theology. You are skirting the issue of salvation. Not all of Israel is the Israel of God - because they reject Jesus.

"Faith" also includes saving faith, i.e. faith unto salvation.