Dr. Ruth: Women can't say no to sex once naked in bed

[KWCrazy]

Women can't say "No" once the ball gag is in place.
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Just Kidding!

Guys, the best advice I can give is to NEVER have sex with a crazy woman. Eliminate all the casual sex and you eliminate the problem.

 

[Hank]

What, exactly, about being a cocktease, is so traumatizing and awful? Does it somehow violate a man's bodily sovereignty? Traumatize him? Scar him mentally? No? Then there is no comparison. I'm sorry, there just isn't. One is a kinda crappy thing to do that will leave someone really disappointed... The other is rape

Both are disgusting, I think.
One starts a fire that needs a Fire Extinguisher to end it; pretty self centered behavior in my books.
The other has an issue with dominance, also a self centered behavior.

All I can say here on this forum, I'm glad my woman loves me, and I grew up in a less political correct time.

 

[The Cadet]

Both are disgusting, I think.

I happen to find both nosepicking and ritualistic cannibalism disgusting. They're not really comparable though. Similarly, leading a dude on and rape are not comparable, and I have absolutely no idea how anyone could consider them on a similar level.

One starts a fire that needs a Fire Extinguisher to end it; pretty self centered behavior in my books.
The other has an issue with dominance, also a self centered behavior.

...Are you serious? Violating a woman's bodily autonomy and violating her in a very personal, very traumatizing manner in order to get your rocks off is not "self centered behavior". It's sociopathic and criminal behavior. It doesn't belong in the same category as leading a man on and then saying "no". I feel like I'm repeating myself here, but if your impulse control is so bad that it is really painful for you to get blueballed, that's on you. It doesn't make the act of blueballing you criminal, it just means you need some counseling and probably a cold shower. It does not somehow justify rape, or place blueballing on the same level as rape.

And of course, something missed here is that usually, when a woman goes so far as to get naked with someone, and then decides, "Nah, I'd rather not", it's usually not a case of just wanting to tease someone. There's usually a real reason why she yells time-out. If someone is trying to be a cocktease, they usually stop before either party gets fully naked.

All I can say here on this forum, I'm glad my woman loves me, and I grew up in a less political correct time.

It's not about political correctness, though. It's about not raping. What does political correctness have to do with anything said here?

 

[Hank]

...Are you serious? Violating a woman's bodily autonomy and violating her in a very personal, very traumatizing manner in order to get your rocks off is not "self centered behavior". It's sociopathic and criminal behavior. It doesn't belong in the same category as leading a man on and then saying "no". I feel like I'm repeating myself here, but if your impulse control is so bad that it is really painful for you to get blueballed, that's on you. It doesn't make the act of blueballing you criminal, it just means you need some counseling and probably a cold shower. It does not somehow justify rape, or place blueballing on the same level as rape.

I did not say they are in the same behavior category. Read my post again.
Yet, as this Dr. suggested, it is not black and white when two consenting adults meet in bed.

As for political correctness, only those could make rape an absolute under any given circumstance.

 

[Armoured]

Women can't say "No" once the ball gag is in place.
.
.
.
.
.
.
Just Kidding!

Guys, the best advice I can give is to NEVER have sex with a crazy woman. Eliminate all the casual sex and you eliminate the problem.

So, a spouse can't decide her or she isn't in the mood after all?

 

[dgiharris]

.....The difference here, of course, being that sex is not necessary for an individual's immediate survival, and that that hamburger isn't a thinking, feeling human being. This analogy is terrible, as it both paints recreational sex as some urgent, necessary thing (as opposed to, you know, recreation) and objectifies women completely.....

The point of my analogy wasn't so much equivalency in terms of survival vs recreation.... No. The point of my analogy was to present two situations in which the reptile part of the brain "can" overwhelm the cognitive part of the brain. Similar to my analogy about walking in on someone raping your child and then that person surrenders to you. Again, my point isn't about "legality" as legality is a nice cozy concept we can intellectualize about as we Monday morning Quarterback a situation... What I'm arguing is that in real life there will be times where legal and right and wrong become abstract concepts that are meaningless to the actions that have transpired or are about to transpire. And that breaking point is when you put yourself in a situation where the reptile brain "can" overwhelm the cognitive brain.

Now, virtually everyone has been conditioned about sex and consent and right and wrong. Similarly, near everyone would agree on an "intellectual basis" that either party has the right to withdraw consent at any time. But what I'm arguing is that life is messier than nice neat little theoretical exercises. I'm not arguing the right or wrong of it persay, but rather the reality. And the reality is, that X percent of the population does not have the "self control" to override the reptile brain if they are pushed too far. And getting to the point where both parties are aroused and naked and seconds away from coitus and then saying, "you know what, I don't want to" is beyond the breaking point of a high percentage of people. If I were to attempt to quantify it, I would probably say perhaps 10% of males would be unable to pull back at that point. I'd put the percentage as high as 30% for males aged 16 - 25 and then probably knock off 2 percentage points per year older than 25.

So I will retract a bit as my earlier posts kinda infer I'm saying it's "right to rape". No, not my intent. My argument is simply that the reptile brain does have the capacity and ability to temporarily OVERPOWER our cognitive centers in extreme situations like fight or flight or extreme hunger or biological reproduction. To be clear, I'm not saying this occurs whenever a man is with a woman or simply because some kissing is going on. No, I'm talking about a very specific situation in which both parties have been aroused and now find themselves naked together when implied consent has been given only to be removed at the last instance.

Sure, we can argue the technicalities, morality, and legality of the situation and all agree it is wrong. But that's not my point, I'm simply arguing the actuality and "crimes of passion" happen all the time. Road rage, murder, and rape happen in a lot of instances where passions are inflammed and a situation presents itself where for a brief window in time circumstances allow the Reptile part of our brains to override the cognitive centers of our brain...

I don't know if I can make my point any clearer. If you are one of those types that like to tease or enrage your partner in this or related manners (regardless of sex) you are playing with fire and don't be surprised when you get burned (just ask John Bobbit)

 

[The Cadet]

I did not say they are in the same behavior category. Read my post again.
Yet, as this Dr. suggested, it is not black and white when two consenting adults meet in bed.

Yes, actually, it is black and white. Here, let me make it more black and white. If I am naked in bed with you and I want to perform anal sex on you, and you say no, is it rape? How about if you got into bed naked with me? If I ask, you say no, and I go ahead and stick it in anyways, is it rape? Am I raping you?

Look, it all comes down to consent. Rape is sex without consent. That's just how it's defined. And if I don't consent to sex, and you have sex with me anyways, you are raping me.

As for political correctness, only those could make rape an absolute under any given circumstance.

Again, it's not about political correctness. It's about understanding that consent is fragile, and that sex is inherently different from most actions. If I haven't consented to sex, I have not consented to sex. That's not up for debate, that's a tautology! If I get into bed naked with you, is that the same thing as consenting to sex? No!

 

[dgiharris]

So, a spouse can't decide her or she isn't in the mood after all?

For the love of all that is holy, that is NOT the argument. We are talking about a very specific circumstance and situation when both parties have clearly demonstrated implied consent and then at the very last instance one party withdraws consent. This is clearly different than just two people lying in bed or one partner decided to arbitrarily have sex with the other...

hate it when people purposefully misconstrue an argument to make their point.

....
Guys, the best advice I can give is to NEVER have sex with a crazy woman. Eliminate all the casual sex and you eliminate the problem.

this + 1000

I don't care how hot the girl is, if she is crazy or hyper emotional you are best off avoiding her like the plague. These type of women love to play the rape card over any perceived slight.

 

[The Cadet]

The point of my analogy wasn't so much equivalency in terms of survival vs recreation.... No. The point of my analogy was to present two situations in which the reptile part of the brain "can" overwhelm the cognitive part of the brain. Similar to my analogy about walking in on someone raping your child and then that person surrenders to you. Again, my point isn't about "legality" as legality is a nice cozy concept we can intellectualize about as we Monday morning Quarterback a situation... What I'm arguing is that in real life there will be times where legal and right and wrong become abstract concepts that are meaningless to the actions that have transpired or are about to transpire. And that breaking point is when you put yourself in a situation where the reptile brain "can" overwhelm the cognitive brain.

And when you do, it's still rape! Your bad impulse control (and, seriously, if this is how you think, you need mental help) does not excuse rape. Why is this so difficult for people to grasp? If you just mean it as a warning, well, warn away. There are some really crappy people out there. Thanks for the clarification, let's not pretend it's an excuse though.

 

[Armoured]

For the love of all that is holy, that is NOT the argument. We are talking about a very specific circumstance and situation when both parties have clearly demonstrated implied consent and then at the very last instance one party withdraws consent. This is clearly different than just two people lying in bed or one partner decided to arbitrarily have sex with the other...

hate it when people purposefully misconstrue an argument to make their point.

I'm not misconstruing anything. Married couple in bed, doing their thing, one or the other decides he/she isn't in to it and wants to stop. Think it can't happen?

 

[dgiharris]

And when you do, it's still rape! Your bad impulse control (and, seriously, if this is how you think, you need mental help) does not excuse rape. Why is this so difficult for people to grasp? If you just mean it as a warning, well, warn away. There are some really crappy people out there. Thanks for the clarification, let's not pretend it's an excuse though.

No not an excuse, a reason. Will the reason prevent legal action against the rapist? No, it will not. However I submit that any woman who puts herself in this situation assumes her fair share of culpability and negligence. To me, she is not an innocent victim in this anymore than some idiot playing around with a loaded gun and accidentally shooting his friend.

You don't put yourself in potentially dangerous situations. You are an adult, you should be responsible for your actions and if you are a woman, putting yourself in this situation is irresponsible and dangerous and imo you don't get to play the part of the doe eyed innocent who is blameless.

Obviously my argument is not that the man is blameless. Rape is wrong yada yada yada. FWIW, these things don't happen out of the blue. The woman will demonstrate her propensity for these kinda games and the guy should have known better than to be involved with a cocktease.

Incidentally, if things ever do get to this point and either party wishes to withdraw consent for sex, usually "other" more acceptable forms of sexual stimulation occur which neutralize the danger and probability of rape. One would have to be a pseudo [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] to bring ones respective partner to this stage of arousal only to leave them high and dry...

 

[Dave-W]

Look, it all comes down to consent. Rape is sex without consent. That's just how it's defined. And if I don't consent to sex, and you have sex with me anyways, you are raping me.

Not so. "Rape" as defined in almost every legal dictionary involves "penetration." So unless a woman has some kind of prosthetic, she lacks the equipment to perform "rape."

 

[dgiharris]

Not so. "Rape" as defined in almost every legal dictionary involves "penetration." So unless a woman has some kind of prosthetic, she lacks the equipment to perform "rape."

What word would you use to describe what happens to a man when a woman forces him to have sex with her against his will?

 

[Dave-W]

What word would you use to describe what happens to a man when a woman forces him to have sex with her against his will?

It varies by jurisdiction. Michigan changed it from "rape" to "Criminal Sexual Conduct," which covers a lot more activities than just forced intercourse.

 

[Dave-W]

One would have to be a pseudo [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] to bring ones respective partner to this stage of arousal only to leave them high and dry...

I heard a lot of girls in high school who did this on a regular basis.
They loved watching their guy squirm. So they did it over and over.

 

[Cute Tink]

I'm sorry, but no. Just no.

I really don't care if you are actively having sex and one party changes their mind, there is absolutely no requirement that you have to finish the other person off. Too bad. It happens. Go finish yourself off if it is that urgent for you.

Lacking so much impulse control that you feel you have the right to force the person into a sex act to satisfy your sexual urges makes you a disgusting person.

 

[EarthFae]

Question for all the guys here supporting this.

If you and your women were aroused in bed and she suddenly said she wanted to peg you would it mean you lead her on and went against her "biological" urges.

 

[Dave-W]

Not sure what "she wanted to peg you" means ....

 

[The Cadet]

No not an excuse, a reason. Will the reason prevent legal action against the rapist? No, it will not. However I submit that any woman who puts herself in this situation assumes her fair share of culpability and negligence. To me, she is not an innocent victim in this anymore than some idiot playing around with a loaded gun and accidentally shooting his friend.

You have a knack for bad comparisons. A man is not a loaded gun. A man is a thinking, feeling human being with the same capacity for reason as anyone else. The analogy simply does not work as a result. We do not blame the victim for what happened to them. If someone is hitchhiking and gets picked up by someone who then rapes and murders them, it is not the hitchhiker's fault for being imprudent, it is the murderer's fault for murdering people.

You don't put yourself in potentially dangerous situations. You are an adult, you should be responsible for your actions and if you are a woman, putting yourself in this situation is irresponsible and dangerous and imo you don't get to play the part of the doe eyed innocent who is blameless.

I don't know about you, but if the assumption I made to reason to myself "this situation is safe" was simply "this person has impulse control good enough to accept a 'no' answer", I'd like to think that it's not my fault when they can't.

Obviously my argument is not that the man is blameless. Rape is wrong yada yada yada. FWIW, these things don't happen out of the blue. The woman will demonstrate her propensity for these kinda games and the guy should have known better than to be involved with a cocktease.

So, just out of curiosity, has it occurred to you that it might not always be the woman being a cocktease here? That there might be a reason for her to want to stop other than "the woman wants to torment the man"?

Incidentally, if things ever do get to this point and either party wishes to withdraw consent for sex, usually "other" more acceptable forms of sexual stimulation occur which neutralize the danger and probability of rape. One would have to be a pseudo [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] to bring ones respective partner to this stage of arousal only to leave them high and dry...

Keep blaming that victim, I guess.

Not so. "Rape" as defined in almost every legal dictionary involves "penetration." So unless a woman has some kind of prosthetic, she lacks the equipment to perform "rape."

This is some very old-school thinking, the kind of thing that needs to change in legal dictionaries. Badly.

Also, pegging is a sexual act where the woman has anal sex with a man using a strap-on [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse].

 

[Dave-W]

This is some very old-school thinking, the kind of thing that needs to change in legal dictionaries. Badly.

Apparently the lawyers disagreed and generated new legal terms for other sex crimes. Probably changing the definitions would call older cases into question if the activity did not fit the new definition.

Also, pegging is a sexual act where the woman has anal sex with a man using a strap-on [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse].

Hmm. Never gonna happen. I do not see the point. But thanks for the info.