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Doubt and Suffering

Discussion in 'Deeper Fellowship' started by Tr1n1ty, Jan 3, 2019.

  1. Tr1n1ty

    Tr1n1ty New Member

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    hi everyone,

    I have become a born again Christian earlier last year. I still have faith but I am doubting Gods character. This past week has been a big struggle for me. I have been reading a lot of the OT and it’s confusing to me. God seems “bi polar” in a way but I know that’s because I don’t understand.

    I had a nightmare I was getting tortured and I said “where is God during this?” Then I woke up and thought things like “where was God during the holocause?” And I have been having doubts since then.


    Can someone help me out? Where’s God during suffering? How can I not doubt like this?

    I KNOW that God loves us more than anyone and that he doesn’t want anyone to suffer. Then another part of me thinks he abandons us and could care less, which I know isn’t true. I can’t help but think it. I am doubting Gods character and it’s making me really sad. I am looking at him like a tyrant and I don’t want to. It’s not his fault we choose to do evil.

    I feel like I am in a constant war within myself with light clashing with dark, and on the days when I feel more darkness it’s so difficult for me. This inward battle drives me crazy. It reminds me of the book of Romans. I relate so much of what Paul explained.
     
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  2. yeshuaslavejeff

    yeshuaslavejeff simple truth, martyr, disciple of Yahshua

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    Rather, His Word Clearly Says Why Suffering is Necessary, and the purpose of suffering. (it's not only punishment, but corrective, discipline, trainging that is very very much needed by people today)
     
  3. W2L

    W2L Well-Known Member

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    Not all suffering is the result of sin. Remember Job and his friends? God rains down on the just and unjust alike.
     
  4. W2L

    W2L Well-Known Member

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    For me, i dont care about such things anymore. I live by simplicity. Jesus is my friend who helps me, i have all the answers i need.
     
  5. yeshuaslavejeff

    yeshuaslavejeff simple truth, martyr, disciple of Yahshua

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    Yes, basically, not all suffering is because of sin,
    Although that sunshine and rain in that reference (God sends rain and sun on the just and on the unjust) is referring I think to the blessings God gives generously of what is needed for life/ for food and clothes /sources/ growing things/ for everyone just and unjust.
     
  6. W2L

    W2L Well-Known Member

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    Yes, but to quote Job: Shall we indeed accept good from God and not accept adversity?

    If God is no respecter of persons when it comes to good, why not when it comes to adversity as well?
     
  7. Tr1n1ty

    Tr1n1ty New Member

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    The thing that’s making me doubt his character is asking things like where was God during the holocaust and during painful times like that? His word also says that he doesn’t even want to see the wicked to perish but to come to repentance. I read Job before but it was confusing to me, basically saying we will never know? I know God rebuked his friends saying that Jobs sins were for suffering. I know trials and suffering can purify us like gold but what about people who just get tortured for no reason then die?
     
  8. W2L

    W2L Well-Known Member

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    I look at it this way, we will all die, some will die more peaceful than others i guess, but all will die. It doesnt really matter how we die, in my opinion.
     
  9. Blade

    Blade Veteran Supporter

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    At 1st I was told ..to read the book of John.. over and over :) Things we need to know. Our enemy come to steal kill and destroy. Our enemy.. has no truth in him. He can ONLY lie.. so.. now flip what ever those lies are.. those fears? yeah.. NOT from God at all. Think about ALL those fears.. not from God at all.. not one. See He has not given you the spirit of fear but of POWER and LOVE and a sound mind.

    See.. look to HIS word. What does your FATHER not me not others.. but what does your FATHER say in His word.. There are over 7 thousand verses PROMISES that are ALL YOURS! Like Isa.. if you keep your mind on Him He WILL keep you in perfect peace. His JOY is your strength.. you quote HIS word.. ask Jesus did.. IT IS WRITTEN...

    Suffering.. He died rose.. its finished. There is NOTHING else He can do. Why? ITS DONE! Isa 53..read it.. read 1st Peter 2:24.. whats written? The enemy does come in...but we NEVER EVER have to keep it receive it. Take Peter and John at the gate beautiful.. I LOVE this.. read it. not once did they have ask OH FATHER or OH JESUS if its your will....never once did have to ask Him. They said "we dont have any silver or gold..but what I do have give I unto you IN JESUS NAME". Keep reading.. "why look on us as if we did this under out own power. Its FAITH in that name"

    that name above all names.. HE Christ gave to ALL that believe. WHO SO EVER BELIEVES ..in my NAME shall "And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues; They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.

    See its all about what HE said ,...not what I say or any other.. you take HIM at HIS word. Its not what I personal believe..

    Oh about Job.. one God did nothing.. it was ALL Satan.. and what people leave out is how long did this go on? Yeah we dont know and Job? HEALED and God double TWICE of EVERYTHING he had before :)

    Jesus is in you.. He is not against you.. He is FOR YOU! ALWAYS for you.. LOVES you so much.. we walk by faith.. faith? Like.. fear? You find what HE said about it.. I say. NO God has NOT Given me the spirit of fear but of power and love and a sound mind. I FEEL the fear.. its there.. as any sickness comes.. yet.. I KNOW what my Father said.. and EVERY fear worry doubt sickness you name it has no RIGHT to stay.. so confess your sins.. if any He is faithful to forgive you and cleans you from ALL unrighteousness... Your righteous before the Father not because you never sin.. we all have sin as John says.. your are in right standing.. righteous because you BELIEVE in JESUS as again is written..

    So.. dont believe me.. you believe HIS word..what HE said.. HE is in you and you are His.. He loves you SO MUCH...forgive me if I have offended..
     
  10. W2L

    W2L Well-Known Member

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    I dont believe you. :) (Joking)
     
  11. SkyWriting

    SkyWriting The Librarian Supporter

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    This covers that:

    Genesis 3:24
    He drove out the man, and at the east of the garden of Eden he placed the cherubim and a flaming sword that turned every way to guard the way to the tree of life.

    So, you can read that man was driven out of paradise and the gates guarded.
    This explains that man in no longer in paradise. Nothing bad happens to people
    in paradise. This is not that place. So we can't expect paradise here.

    Here is another example: Man crucified the only Son of God. This is no paradise.
     
  12. Roidecoeur78

    Roidecoeur78 This world is not my home.

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    This is a truth many, if not most, will have a hard time ever coming to realize or accept. That if every person's body is going to return to the elements it's composed of (the dust, the air, the water etc), and no amount of worry or care is going to add one second more to one's life than God has ordered, then it hardly matters how, where, or when it dies. What really matters is how one lived while in it.
     
  13. Tone

    Tone Star Fish Radiant

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    I see suffering and death as my transport into His Presence. So when you ask "where was God during the holocaust?" I would say, He was there welcoming them to their destination. I love to go different places, but I hate the traveling part, so I am so happy that one day soon that vehicle of death will no longer be needed.

    ...I hope you can follow my analogy (correct?).
     
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  14. Mark Quayle

    Mark Quayle Well-Known Member Supporter

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    The question of suffering is maybe the main question that drives people away from Christianity (but I have to say, not necessarily away from God). My own son who once considered himself a Christian (something like tenth generation Christian at that) has "abandoned the faith" over that very question. I love people like you who have real questions and don't simply trust in platitudes. And so does Christ.

    I would say to you what I say to many people --that this life is not about this life, so be patient, because God is making what he wants to of you, in spite of your expectations (read Job)-- but that isn't what you need to hear, I think. As you go through life without getting your answers, you will come to know him, and understand his compassion is never how you want it, yet you will come to believe it, and see how it involves your submission to his will, and your deepest emotional longing "to see his face". If you are his, he may well take you through harder things than you ever imagined, just to teach you that this life is not about you --not even about learning obedience and faith --but about him.

    --But no, that isn't what you need to hear, I think. All I can tell you is what he has promised, and what for me after 63 years has proven true: That he has never abandoned me (in spite of what it felt like), and has never gone back on his word (in spite of how I didn't see what I expected), and has never failed to complete what he has begun (in spite of my disobedience). He has taken till now (and longer, no doubt) to convince me that HE is the one doing my life, and I am along to watch, and learn, even more than to obey, though obedience is of the utmost importance --to the point of registering whether I am even saved or not.

    And I can tell you scriptures committed to memory early on, have held me up and taught me, and not one of them has been useless. "A bruised reed he will not break, and a smoldering wick he will not snuff out." "All that the father gives to me will come to me, and him that comes to me I will never cast out." "he who began a good work in you will carry it on to completion until the day of Christ Jesus". and specially also, the advices and wisdom of Psalms, Proverbs and Ecclesiastes. I could go on and on like this about the Scriptures. STAY IN THEM. Read huge segments at a sitting, LOOK for the heart of God --it will go far into knowing who he is (which has everything to do with why he does what he does).

    Do not expect to understand what is happening to you or to those you love or hear about. He not only owes you and them no explanation, but more than that, he is working on you, while he is using you. You are (like me) unable to see how he is doing this, but he is, and you get to watch, brother.

    Lastly, understand, your faith is the gift of God, if it is true faith. You don't have to keep it true if it is true. It is there for God's sake, not so much for yours. This is not about you. So Read about Him. And keep talking to him. He's there.

    Figure this one out: 28 “Come to me, all you who are weary and burdened, and I will give you rest. 29 Take my yoke upon you and learn from me, for I am gentle and humble in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. 30 For my yoke is easy and my burden is light.” Do you think his yoke was easy and his burden light? --he who had to live without failing even once, and then had to take OUR SIN as his own, and pay our penalty, for what we did against Him, and as such to be out of touch with the Father, with whom he had always been one?

    I better stop for now. But I would love to hear from you as you continue to pursue Christ.
     
  15. Tr1n1ty

    Tr1n1ty New Member

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    Thank you everyone
     
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  16. Tr1n1ty

    Tr1n1ty New Member

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    thank you very much I was trying to private message you but I don’t know how. This helped a lot thank you for your testimony and thoughtful words! Have a good night
     
  17. Mark Quayle

    Mark Quayle Well-Known Member Supporter

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    I wasn't on. But thanks. I have it set to follow you, so if nothing else, I will know when you post.
     
  18. Stone-n-Steel

    Stone-n-Steel Active Member Supporter

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    You should spend lots of time looking at Paul because I think his message is most important for us today.

    Paul on suffering is that God's grace is sufficient for him (2Cor 12:9) and that tribulation brings hope (Rom 5:1-5). The OT is full of performance based salvation. Just try not to lose hope when Paul says this "Yea, and all that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution." because God's grace is sufficient.
     
  19. Loyce KG

    Loyce KG "Put on Christ and make no room for the flesh"

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    Hope this article helps;
    www.desiringgod.org/articles/never-blame-god
     
  20. sea5763

    sea5763 Active Member

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    I struggled over the same question more or less. Don’t brush aside the refining of gold in the furnace of affliction. Also remember that God makes everything to work together for the good of those that love God. Remember that at Judgment Day God will exact perfect judgment and justice. And has already been said persecution often comes with the faith. Jesus said blessed are the persecuted. This life is a vapor but the afterlife is eternal. Plus we are in a fallen world because of the fall in the garden of eden.

    1 Peter 1:7 Psalm 66:10-12 Romans 8:28 2 Timothy 3:12 Matthew 5:10-12 Romans 8:18. 2 Corinthians 5:10
     
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