Double standard?

[TooCurious]

Life in prison should not be an option

If there is even a remote possibility of wrongful convictions of innocent people, why shouldn't life in prison be an option?

and years of appeals violate the right of quick justice.

Appeals are not mandatory; the convicted party and his defense counsel choose to pursue appeals to the sentence. If the convicted individual preferred "quick justice," he could simply refuse to appeal his sentence. Appeals therefore cannot be construed as a violation of his rights.

 

[Joykins]

Which, if either, would you consider to be a double standard POV: pro-choice & anti-death penalty or pro-life & pro-death penalty? Please explain your answer.

Neither, because the punishment of criminals and the ethics of human reproduction are not the same thing.

 

[WorldIsMine]

The death penalty (shorn of its Statist background) is not contradictory or implied by either pro or anti-abortion. Murderers have aggressed against people, killed someone who was not violating their property. It is an accepted fact that the unborn have not done so. The question is wherein and to what extent abortion is an acceptable way to remove a child from a woman's property in her body.

 

[WatersMoon110]

Neither, because the punishment of criminals and the ethics of human reproduction are not the same thing.

Exactly! There is no "double standard".

If someone was for the death penalty, but didn't want their brother on death row to be put to death, that might be a contradiction. If someone was against the death penalty, until their sister was murdered, that might be a contradiction.

Likewise, if someone was against abortion, until they got unintentionally pregnant, there is a contradiction. I can't think of a similar one for Pro-Choice people, sorry.

I sometimes think it odd that people can be Pro-Life but not against war or the death penalty, or that people can be Pro-Choice but against the death penalty. But I don't think there is a contradiction, because these are separate matters, and people are complex.

I have Pro-Choice vegan friends that would say that there is a contradiction between being Pro-Life but still eating meat. I have Pro-Life vegetarian friends who say there is a contradiction between not eating meat but being Pro-Choice. But I feel that how one feels about legal, elective abortion and how one feels about eating meat, and how one feels about the death penalty, and how one feels about war; are different things, with little in common.

I am Pro-Choice because I believe that even pregnant women should retain control over their own bodies, including the right to deny use of their bodies to any other humans. I am against the death penalty because I worry that innocent people might get convicted, and there is no way to resurrect people if the State is wrong; as well as I believe it to be cruel and unusual punishment (due to the immense pain cause by every method since the guillotine - and hanging if it is done properly). I am against wars that are unjust (but feel that some wars, like WWII were necessary). I eat meat, because humans are naturally omnivorous. I see no contradictions in feeling all of these things, because they all have to do with different subjects, and they all are logical arguments for why I feel the way I do.

I do notice that most people seem to feel that there is only a contradiction when someone hold the opposite opinion than them on the two topics (abortion and the death penalty), but no one sees a contradiction in their own opinion on the two matters.

 

[allhart]

As a society, as a whole. I feel we are spiritually bankrupt. The difference between the saved, and the lost is that we the (saved) know we are evil. No one else see's themselves as evil. Corporal punishment is necessary. For the crazed. America has 6% of the worlds population and has 25% of its population institutionalized. More than any other nation! This is our answer Tolerance "A?" We need to live for truth. Not for one's selfish motives. Killing the innocent or the killer. I would rather kill the killer, and for the mother she not evil "A?" If that's what you believe. Clearly there is a difference in the spiritual dead and the living for the truth.

 

[cantata]

I reckon allhart's technique is to translate all his posts into French and back using Babelfish or some such. I can't work out any other way that someone who claims English is his first language can write in such a grammatically and stylistically bizarre fashion.

In other news, hate the sin, love the sinner. You do this by KILLING THE SINNER, kthx.

 

[cantata]

A foetus MUST be a baby because it certainly is a baby after it's born.

A baby MUST be a child because it is certainly a child at age 4.

A child MUST be a teenager because it is certainly a teenager at age 13.

A teenager MUST be an adult because it is certainly an adult at age 21.

An adult MUST be an elderly person because it is certainly an elderly person at age 70.

Now if A = B and B = C and C = D and D = E, then A must be equal to E. Therefore a foetus is an elderly person.

Yep.

Hey, I just realised! An elderly person must be a corpse because it is certainly a corpse at age 130.

A = B, B = C, C = D, D = E, and E = F, so A = F. Therefore a foetus is a corpse!

Well, we should have no qualms about removing it from a woman's body then, should we?

 

[WatersMoon110]

I reckon allhart's technique is to translate all his posts into French and back using Babelfish or some such. I can't work out any other way that someone who claims English is his first language can write in such a grammatically and stylistically bizarre fashion.

In other news, hate the sin, love the sinner. You do this by KILLING THE SINNER, kthx.

Is that what they were trying to say? I got confused, and all I gathered was: "A?"

But your translation makes some sense of that post, though I'm unsure how you did that! (Is ChristoBabel your second language?)

 

[Bombila]

I reckon allhart's technique is to translate all his posts into French and back using Babelfish or some such. I can't work out any other way that someone who claims English is his first language can write in such a grammatically and stylistically bizarre fashion.

In other news, hate the sin, love the sinner. You do this by KILLING THE SINNER, kthx.

At least he uses spellcheck, and though sometimes astoundingly obscure in syntax, I've yet to see him make me cringe by the use of the wrong word, like 'tenant' for 'tenet', or 'track' for 'tract'. I barely succeed in fighting the urge to automatically correct such things.

 

[WatersMoon110]

At least he uses spellcheck, and though sometimes astoundingly obscure in syntax, I've yet to see him make me cringe by the use of the wrong word, like 'tenant' for 'tenet', or 'track' for 'tract'. I barely succeed in fighting the urge to automatically correct such things.

Sometimes I do correct them, by quoting the post, fixing spelling errors, and bolding the replaced letters. But I'm petty like that.

You can correct any spelling error I have (though I have FireFox and SpellCheck in the text boxes), because I would rather spell thing correctly. And I've already come to terms with the fact that my spelling, without help, is atrocious.

 

[TooCurious]

At least he uses spellcheck, and though sometimes astoundingly obscure in syntax, I've yet to see him make me cringe by the use of the wrong word, like 'tenant' for 'tenet', or 'track' for 'tract'. I barely succeed in fighting the urge to automatically correct such things.

It's always good to be reminded that I'm not the only one who feels this way.

 

[allhart]

Why wouldn't God care about all his people (even the evil doer) and as a adopted child of his, why wouldn't I care about what he cares about. Doesn't one love his child, even if he is a murderer. I would say a Parent would hate the behavior, but could and would still love the child.
The denial that a fetus isn't life, or creation of life is far from truth!
Do you care more for your comfort and your well being, than for the innocent life of another? Mistakes made in Ignorance is one thing, but abortion in society today is stupidity. Watch a film on an actual abortion. Whatever you call life watch it be chopped and vacuumed from the uterus. OR is this only a verbal claim by your ignorance, or A denial of life towards another means more to you ,so you have the ability to do whatever you feel like. To have sex with no accountability for a new life.That's retarded!
As for corporal punishment kill or be killed. You have a crazed maniac in your society that has no regard for life and kills merciless. I don't have to Question God on that truth.

 

[allhart]

We need to just face the fact that we are all evil doers. and we all are in need of a higher authority than our own to compel us to live righteously not selfishly.

 

[allhart]

It's always good to be reminded that I'm not the only one who feels this way.

I'm Glad you feel good about yourself. Tearing down another to make yourself look good in front of others. You must be proud of yourself. WOW! Isn't that of the world and everyone wonders why we are in trouble.

 

[TooCurious]

I'm Glad you feel good about yourself. Tearing down another to make yourself look good in front of others. You must be proud of yourself. WOW! Isn't that of the world and everyone wonders why we are in trouble.

I'm desperate to know who you think I'm "tearing down" to "make myself look good in front of others." The post with which I expressed my agreement spoke of frustration with seeing people make certain types of grammatical errors, and barely restraining the impulse to correct them. "Barely restraining" an impulse is still restraining it. It happens that I am passionate about grammar and language, and I experience near-physical discomfort upon seeing certain types of grammatical errors (you can imagine what it's like for me to spend much time on the internet). It was this feeling with which I was commiserating with Bombila. I have the urge to correct errors in grammar or language usage because such errors cause me pain, not because I want to "look good in front of others" or "tear another down." Maybe that's the sort of thing YOU enjoy (and, judging by this post of yours, in which you falsely accuse me of deriving pleasure from insulting others--thereby insulting ME--you evidently do), but please don't project your own petty need to put others down onto me.

What was that bit about not pointing out the splinter in another person's eye when you've got a beam in your own, or judging not lest ye be judged? Or the bit about bearing false witness against others?

 

[platzapS]

We need to just face the fact that we are all evil doers. and we all are in need of a higher authority than our own to compel us to live righteously not selfishly.

Sometimes we may do evil, but we are not inherently evil. I see no need for an authority higher than reason and compassion.

 

[quatona]

Which, if either, would you consider to be a double standard POV: pro-choice & anti-death penalty or pro-life & pro-death penalty? Please explain your answer.

Whether any of them is based on a double standard would depend on the way the person argues for his/her position.

 

[allhart]

I'm desperate to know who you think I'm "tearing down" to "make myself look good in front of others." The post with which I expressed my agreement spoke of frustration with seeing people make certain types of grammatical errors, and barely restraining the impulse to correct them. "Barely restraining" an impulse is still restraining it. It happens that I am passionate about grammar and language, and I experience near-physical discomfort upon seeing certain types of grammatical errors (you can imagine what it's like for me to spend much time on the internet). It was this feeling with which I was commiserating with Bombila. I have the urge to correct errors in grammar or language usage because such errors cause me pain, not because I want to "look good in front of others" or "tear another down." Maybe that's the sort of thing YOU enjoy (and, judging by this post of yours, in which you falsely accuse me of deriving pleasure from insulting others--thereby insulting ME--you evidently do), but please don't project your own petty need to put others down onto me.

What was that bit about not pointing out the splinter in another person's eye when you've got a beam in your own, or judging not lest ye be judged? Or the bit about bearing false witness against others?

Looking at the splinter. A lot of people want to concern themselves with other peoples problems ,so they don't have to address the log in their own. Self infliction (Sin) off topic. Or is it? SIN

 

[cantata]

It's always good to be reminded that I'm not the only one who feels this way.

Ditto.

I confess I often give in to temptation and correct the hell out of people.

To get back on topic: I'm still waiting to find out, in one of these millions of threads about abortion, why it's bad, from the point of view of a foetus, to be aborted.

 

[TooCurious]

Looking at the splinter. A lot of people want to concern themselves with other peoples problems ,so they don't have to address the log in their own. Self infliction (Sin) off topic. Or is it? SIN

So, why are you looking at my supposed "problems" (which exist only in your mind, by the way), rather than addressing the beam in your own eye?