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Double predestination

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Good Day, All

I know for me this is hard to get my hands around as I usally take some view of single predestination, and see the one's out side of election being a result of the lack of election.

Reading this helps:

http://www.the-highway.com/DoublePredestination_Sproul.html

Luther, in discussing the traitorous act of Judas, says:

Have I not put on record in many books that I am talking about necessity of immutability?I know that the Father begets willingly, and that Judas betrayed Christ willingly. My point is that this act of the will in Judas was certainly and infallibly bound to take place, if God foreknew it. That is to say (if my meaning is not yet grasped), I distinguish two necessities: one I call necessity of force (necessitatem violentam),referring to action; the other I call necessity of infallibility (necessitatem infallibilem),referring to time. Let him who hears me understand that I am speaking of the latter, not the former; that is, I am not discussing whether Judas became a traitor willingly or unwillingly, but whether it was infallibly bound to come to pass that Judas should willingly betray Christ at a time predetermined by God​

Peace to u,

Bill
 

Bulldog

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Double predestination is true, as long as we do not believe the misrepresentations that are made many times about it.

Double predestinaton is not equal ultimacy, it is just the flip side of positive election witth the elect. God does not work unbelief into the nonelect, this comes naturally to the non elect. God does not choose hell for the non-elect, they are naturally in that state. THis is all double predestination is.
 
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cygnusx1

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If God sovereignly chooses someone and calls them out and sets them apart for both salvation AND friendship (both are the free gift of God) then it stands to reason that it cannot and doesn't mean everyone.


I have no problem with double predestination , I mean it's not like the reprobate were hammering on heavens door to be saved and make friends with God is it.
 
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Iosias

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Bulldog said:
Double predestination is true, as long as we do not believe the misrepresentations that are made many times about it.

Double predestinaton is not equal ultimacy, it is just the flip side of positive election witth the elect. God does not work unbelief into the nonelect, this comes naturally to the non elect. God does not choose hell for the non-elect, they are naturally in that state. THis is all double predestination is.
:amen: Very well put :thumbsup:
 
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Reformationist

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cygnusx1 said:
I have no problem with double predestination , I mean it's not like the reprobate were hammering on heavens door to be saved and make friends with God is it.


If the fact that the reprobate are so unaware of their sin wasn't so sad this would be very funny. I'm not sure whether to laugh or feel bad for them. Well, maybe I'll do both. I'll laugh at your phraseology and feel bad for their lack of awareness of their dreadful state.

God bless
 
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SoldierofChrist

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I don't think God decided to send one to hell before the foundation of the world. I believe He simply just left them alone to condemn themselves. I realize that in His sovereignty He chose some to be elect and naturally, those who aren't elect are already condemned to hell, God's grace is what makes the difference, not His predetermined will. I think it can end up becoming semantics, so I don't think it matters.
 
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Reformationist

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SoldierofChrist said:
I don't think God decided to send one to hell before the foundation of the world. I believe He simply just left them alone to condemn themselves. I realize that in His sovereignty He chose some to be elect and naturally, those who aren't elect are already condemned to hell, God's grace is what makes the difference, not His predetermined will. I think it can end up becoming semantics, so I don't think it matters.
I agree completely that the argument between the validity about single predestination vs. double predestination is rather pointless, so long as both schools of thought acknowledge that the grace of God in regenerating someone unto life is not only necessary for eternal life but efficient in bringing it to pass. However, that distinction must be made.

I personally think that those who are in favor of a legitimate view of single predestination are too vehement in their opposition toward the proper explanation of double predestination because, for all intents and purposes, they are espousing the same thing.

For instance, you say, "I don't think God decided to send one to hell before the foundation of the world. I believe He simply just left them alone to condemn themselves." If this is true, and I, as an advocate of double predestination would agree with the second half of that quote, don't you agree that God made a decision to leave them to condemn themselves? And, don't you agree that He made that decision before the foundation of the world? In fact, don't you agree that God had to have made a decision one way or the other, either for election unto salvation or reprobation unto eternal condemnation? The reason I claim that His decision was necessary is because the Bible is clear that all things live and move and have their being in God. If He does not sustain them then they are not sustained. I have always found it unnecessary to try and protect God from unfounded claims of unrighteousness against His holy character when people take issue with the biblical idea of double predestination because, nine times out of ten, what they are actually taking issue with is the unbiblical idea of equal ultimacy.

As I have expressed on numerous occasions to people who argue against double predestination is that there is no middle ground for God. It is impossible for Him to stand back and merely observe what comes to pass because it comes to pass by His immutable will. Granted, it is temporally accomplished through secondary causes but it had to come to pass.

So, my point is simply that in saying that God "simply just left them alone to condemn themselves" you are merely stating that God made a choice to "simply just left them alone to condemn themselves." If you agree that He made this choice, the question you should ask yourself is, "Did He make the choice in eternity, before the foundations of the world, as the Bible purports, or does He make this decision during our temporal life?"

God bless
 
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cygnusx1

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Reformationist said:
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If the fact that the reprobate are so unaware of their sin wasn't so sad this would be very funny. I'm not sure whether to laugh or feel bad for them. Well, maybe I'll do both. I'll laugh at your phraseology and feel bad for their lack of awareness of their dreadful state.

God bless
well put Reformationist , and I would much prefer you laughing at my phraseology than people :thumbsup:
 
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Reformationist

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cygnusx1 said:
well put Reformationist , and I would much prefer you laughing at my phraseology than people :thumbsup:
LOL! Well, I wasn't going to laugh at the people. I was saying I wasn't sure whether to laugh at your phraseology or feel bad for the people. You goof.;) :D
 
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Sola Gratia

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Reformationist said:
As I have expressed on numerous occasions to people who argue against double predestination is that there is no middle ground for God. It is impossible for Him to stand back and merely observe what comes to pass because it comes to pass by His immutable will. Granted, it is temporally accomplished through secondary causes but it had to come to pass.

So, my point is simply that in saying that God "simply just left them alone to condemn themselves" you are merely stating that God made a choice to "simply just left them alone to condemn themselves." If you agree that He made this choice, the question you should ask yourself is, "Did He make the choice in eternity, before the foundations of the world, as the Bible purports, or does He make this decision during our temporal life?"

God bless

I too am a double predestinarian .
I think we argue a distinction without a practicle difference.
If God by affirmative ordiantion or passive ordination God did so ordain the final end of all men before the foundation of the world .

I happen to believe it was a positive ordiantion as God has never been hesitant to act as he will .
He drown the earth and slaughtered the babes in Egypt. God is always right in His judgements.

But together as followers of the reformation know that all of Gods acts are for His glory

Praise the Lord !!!
 
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