Double-Minded and Afraid

[Duke of Stratford]

I made a post yesterday about having trouble loving God, and I got a lot of really wonderful responses. But I'm wrestling with something a little more specific, and I'd appreciate some advice.

My heart feels divided, I feel double-minded...whichever term is more suitable. I believe in God, I believe in Christ's sacrifice and grace, but I also know that I often value the world above God. Which is wrong. Jesus makes a point that you can't serve two masters. James repudiates doubt and double-mindedness. Faith in God has to be absolute, and surrender has to be absolute.

I know that salvation is salvation and that nothing can take it away once you have it. Sanctification is the process of becoming holy, and it takes a lifetime. But a lot of the time, I see surrender at salvation phrased as "total," "absolute," etc. If I have a divided heart, can I really say I have absolute faith and absolute trust? Can I truly say I'm in Christ? What if I haven't really experienced God's love and saving grace? My faith often feels me-centered instead of God-centered; I want to do things right more than I want to glorify God. I'm terrified that I'm deceiving myself into thinking I follow Christ when I really don't.

The hard thing is that I don't hear God calling me to do anything specific about it. I don't think it's an issue of a specific sin, but rather a condition of the heart that I don't know can be repaired. Of course, I pray about it, but even that feels like a selfish prayer. I go back to praying that I can love God more so that everything else can follow, but I still feel so, so divided.

 

[Dave G.]

Well you aren't alone, truth be known in a society like we have today we probably all are double minded to some degree. It's written in James 1:8, we aren't just double minded but unstable in all our ways. So ask for help in prayer, grab your bible and get out and take some nice quiet healthy walks in nature, just you and the Lord. You might be amazed in the ways He can speak to us out in creation. But the important thing is to find that quiet time with Him someplace. Because we pray then get to busy to hear Him reply don't we ? Remember His voice is a still small voice. We must be listening quietly.

Start with shifting the odds, if the world is the greater portion now, make Him the greater portion first. And it's not that we can't enjoy things from the world, we can. It just can't be bigger than our spirit life. Romans 8:1, no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. Most people stop right there, I like to finish the phrase, " and live according to the spirit"...... We can work, we can play, do it in the spirit. God wants into the details of our lives, don't exclude Him when you bake cupcakes for a party, talk to Him. He loves when we talk to Him. Hah, one time I was fly fishing catching no fish. I said to the Lord, ya know I'd be happy with just a couple fish then go home. I immediately caught exactly that, two fish in a row and then it was as if there were no more fish. See I don't take those times as coincidence, that's how the world thinks ! No I said thank you Lord and went home as I said I would. Actually in thinking about it, that has happened more than the one time. I was way up in Maine too one time, just me wading a river, my dad had passed and I was feeling beat up and not catching a fish that was rising right in front of me. I stopped fishing and thought to God, this is so beautiful here, I'm not getting this fish but it sure would be something to see an eagle grab it out of there. Sure enough a golden eagle appeared over the tree line, came soaring across river up high past me and down river , still gliding turned up river, lower and lower it came and plucked that salmon right out from in front of me not 70 ft away. Don't even try to tell me God was not speaking that day ! What's He saying ? I'm right here David, I'm right here with you and I'm in charge..

 

[timothyu]

We all have a duality of nature. Some call it good vs evil but that is rather a poor description as the whole problem with our gaining the knowledge of good and evil, is we keep redefining it to suit ours wants, be it for the moment or long term so we often don't even know what either are.

A better concept might be following our will or following the will of the Father. Our will 's default setting seems to be self oriented, that is self interest, self determination, self serving and so on, where we often seek gain at the expense of others. God's will is that we pursue our other nature and love all as self, seeking to help others rather than take from them.

Life was made to enjoy. Now we all know that other people seeking gain can make our lives miserable, but that is just the way it is. On the other hand we can enjoy life and the world in a way that does not put self interest first, thus not taking anything from any body they don't want us taking and making their life miserable as others make ours sometimes. , Match that up to theft, adultery, lust, coveting and the like and you will see they are all self oriented. God's will trumps ours any day.

 

[Jeshu]

I made a post yesterday about having trouble loving God, and I got a lot of really wonderful responses. But I'm wrestling with something a little more specific, and I'd appreciate some advice.

My heart feels divided, I feel double-minded...whichever term is more suitable. I believe in God, I believe in Christ's sacrifice and grace, but I also know that I often value the world above God. Which is wrong. Jesus makes a point that you can't serve two masters. James repudiates doubt and double-mindedness. Faith in God has to be absolute, and surrender has to be absolute.

I know that salvation is salvation and that nothing can take it away once you have it. Sanctification is the process of becoming holy, and it takes a lifetime. But a lot of the time, I see surrender at salvation phrased as "total," "absolute," etc. If I have a divided heart, can I really say I have absolute faith and absolute trust? Can I truly say I'm in Christ? What if I haven't really experienced God's love and saving grace? My faith often feels me-centered instead of God-centered; I want to do things right more than I want to glorify God. I'm terrified that I'm deceiving myself into thinking I follow Christ when I really don't.

The hard thing is that I don't hear God calling me to do anything specific about it. I don't think it's an issue of a specific sin, but rather a condition of the heart that I don't know can be repaired. Of course, I pray about it, but even that feels like a selfish prayer. I go back to praying that I can love God more so that everything else can follow, but I still feel so, so divided.

Pray with the psalmist of psalm 86 for God to unite your heart to fear His name. I relate very much to what you describe, that is how it used to be with me as well. i was more me centred than Christ centred, and therefore committed some disgusting sin, which made me deeply depressed and that is where i lost my selfishness and traded it in for a humble heart instead.

Today that other part in me that used to be worldly is completely taken away, i died in that self, also in my big I and let my inner world be build by Jesus' loving truth instead. i have never looked back. It is awesome to have a united heart to fear His name, that is what whole hearted service is all about.

My advise to you is to bring yourself in your worldly self to Christ and let Him undo your desires and wants and change them in to God centred activities. The more grace you eat the more you will love God in your true self and the more your untrue self will disappear, be of good courage.

Peace.

Meeting Jesus.

Inability to change forces me to look Jesus in the eye.
The blushing shame from my own nakedness creeps.
Lucky I know the accuser is merely the father of the lie.
Well now a harvest this fallen angel reaps.
Come see the weeds inside my heart to be burnt!

"Can you remember times of wanton greed?"
Awakened, I hear my faithful Saviour speak
"When you hated from my love to feed?"
In His kind words the fire of His mercy peaks,
I watch my greed tumble out of my psyche.

A fiery ending is the best way to illustrate,
the fate my inner greed meets on his tailspin out.
Utterly rejected and in a most miserable state.
Clear knowledge what his punishment is about,
This past ruler is stripped of his powers.

"Those times you in selfishness did feed?"
The perspicacity of His view zeros in.
His voice gentle, sounding so sweet.
Still I watch my biggest I crumble within.
Tumbling down the tunnel without ending.

"But my beloved child why did you follow?"
His urgent words bring me back from sure calamity.
"How much narcissistic thinking did you swallow?
Come, just let it flow out of your personality,
take on a humble vision of self like me."

Gratefully I take His gift offered to me.
A humble heart inside my chest to throb.
Truly from greedy selfishness free to be.
My dear Heavenly Friend please never stop,
fill my every sense of being with Yourself.

Never did I deserve this.
Your goodness in my heart to meet.
I have done so much amiss.
Yet in loving care You still greet.
Oh how I long forever in You to be.

 

[Carl Emerson]

I made a post yesterday about having trouble loving God, and I got a lot of really wonderful responses. But I'm wrestling with something a little more specific, and I'd appreciate some advice.

My heart feels divided, I feel double-minded...whichever term is more suitable. I believe in God, I believe in Christ's sacrifice and grace, but I also know that I often value the world above God. Which is wrong. Jesus makes a point that you can't serve two masters. James repudiates doubt and double-mindedness. Faith in God has to be absolute, and surrender has to be absolute.

I know that salvation is salvation and that nothing can take it away once you have it. Sanctification is the process of becoming holy, and it takes a lifetime. But a lot of the time, I see surrender at salvation phrased as "total," "absolute," etc. If I have a divided heart, can I really say I have absolute faith and absolute trust? Can I truly say I'm in Christ? What if I haven't really experienced God's love and saving grace? My faith often feels me-centered instead of God-centered; I want to do things right more than I want to glorify God. I'm terrified that I'm deceiving myself into thinking I follow Christ when I really don't.

The hard thing is that I don't hear God calling me to do anything specific about it. I don't think it's an issue of a specific sin, but rather a condition of the heart that I don't know can be repaired. Of course, I pray about it, but even that feels like a selfish prayer. I go back to praying that I can love God more so that everything else can follow, but I still feel so, so divided.

You wouldn't be posting if you didnt care about being whole hearted. This is good.

Paul spoke of a similar dividedness in Romans 8

We will always have the heart of flesh waring with the Spirit within until resurrection.

However I do believe total surrender is a stumbling block among believers because it is the fear of losing control that is the problem.

What folks have to realise is that He is a God of order and desires only our good. Surrender is not a freak out when we know this.

Instead of letting the issue get BIG... take small bits at a time. Ask Him to show you just one thing He wants you to change. Dont allow Satan to bring you into condemnation over this - tell him "Jesus and I are working on it..."

 

[longwait]

I made a post yesterday about having trouble loving God, and I got a lot of really wonderful responses. But I'm wrestling with something a little more specific, and I'd appreciate some advice.

My heart feels divided, I feel double-minded...whichever term is more suitable. I believe in God, I believe in Christ's sacrifice and grace, but I also know that I often value the world above God. Which is wrong. Jesus makes a point that you can't serve two masters. James repudiates doubt and double-mindedness. Faith in God has to be absolute, and surrender has to be absolute.

I know that salvation is salvation and that nothing can take it away once you have it. Sanctification is the process of becoming holy, and it takes a lifetime. But a lot of the time, I see surrender at salvation phrased as "total," "absolute," etc. If I have a divided heart, can I really say I have absolute faith and absolute trust? Can I truly say I'm in Christ? What if I haven't really experienced God's love and saving grace? My faith often feels me-centered instead of God-centered; I want to do things right more than I want to glorify God. I'm terrified that I'm deceiving myself into thinking I follow Christ when I really don't.

The hard thing is that I don't hear God calling me to do anything specific about it. I don't think it's an issue of a specific sin, but rather a condition of the heart that I don't know can be repaired. Of course, I pray about it, but even that feels like a selfish prayer. I go back to praying that I can love God more so that everything else can follow, but I still feel so, so divided.

Yes, double minded. Its the battle of the good against the evil spirit within us. Let and allow the holy side of you dominate and subdue the evil.
“Why are you angry,” said the LORD to Cain, “and why has your countenance fallen? If you do what is right, will you not be accepted? But if you refuse to do what is right, sin is crouching at your door; you are its object of desire, but you must master it.” Genesis 4:6-7

Once saved is not always saved. That's false doctrine. The Bible says only he that endures and stands firm to the end shall be saved. You have to overcome. You need to study/read the Word. Then no one will be able to deceive you with false teachings.

 

[JIMINZ]

I made a post yesterday about having trouble loving God, and I got a lot of really wonderful responses. But I'm wrestling with something a little more specific, and I'd appreciate some advice.

My heart feels divided, I feel double-minded...whichever term is more suitable. I believe in God, I believe in Christ's sacrifice and grace, but I also know that I often value the world above God. Which is wrong. Jesus makes a point that you can't serve two masters. James repudiates doubt and double-mindedness. Faith in God has to be absolute, and surrender has to be absolute.

I know that salvation is salvation and that nothing can take it away once you have it. Sanctification is the process of becoming holy, and it takes a lifetime. But a lot of the time, I see surrender at salvation phrased as "total," "absolute," etc. If I have a divided heart, can I really say I have absolute faith and absolute trust? Can I truly say I'm in Christ? What if I haven't really experienced God's love and saving grace? My faith often feels me-centered instead of God-centered; I want to do things right more than I want to glorify God. I'm terrified that I'm deceiving myself into thinking I follow Christ when I really don't.

The hard thing is that I don't hear God calling me to do anything specific about it. I don't think it's an issue of a specific sin, but rather a condition of the heart that I don't know can be repaired. Of course, I pray about it, but even that feels like a selfish prayer. I go back to praying that I can love God more so that everything else can follow, but I still feel so, so divided.

Very simply, what is it you personally feel a Christian should be doing that you personally are not?

Question.

When the Temple in the wilderness, Solomon's Temple, and Herod's Temple were all Dedicated, Consecrated to God, how long did it take for all of the implements to be use in the service in the Temple to become Sanctified?

Was this Sanctification process, an ongoing process or was it immediate so the workings of the Temple could begin immediately.

What would ever make you believe that your Sanctification is an ongoing process are you not of more worth than some Silver bowl or Gold spoon?

You are not progressively Sanctified into Holiness you are Baptized into Christ, being Justified and Sanctified in Him, immediately.

The biggest problem you are having is, you have never been told just where it is you stand IN Christ, and you are doubting whether or not you are actually standing at all because of it.

 

[HARK!]

I made a post yesterday about having trouble loving God, and I got a lot of really wonderful responses. But I'm wrestling with something a little more specific, and I'd appreciate some advice.

My heart feels divided, I feel double-minded...whichever term is more suitable. I believe in God, I believe in Christ's sacrifice and grace, but I also know that I often value the world above God. Which is wrong. Jesus makes a point that you can't serve two masters. James repudiates doubt and double-mindedness. Faith in God has to be absolute, and surrender has to be absolute.

I know that salvation is salvation and that nothing can take it away once you have it. Sanctification is the process of becoming holy, and it takes a lifetime. But a lot of the time, I see surrender at salvation phrased as "total," "absolute," etc. If I have a divided heart, can I really say I have absolute faith and absolute trust? Can I truly say I'm in Christ? What if I haven't really experienced God's love and saving grace? My faith often feels me-centered instead of God-centered; I want to do things right more than I want to glorify God. I'm terrified that I'm deceiving myself into thinking I follow Christ when I really don't.

The hard thing is that I don't hear God calling me to do anything specific about it. I don't think it's an issue of a specific sin, but rather a condition of the heart that I don't know can be repaired. Of course, I pray about it, but even that feels like a selfish prayer. I go back to praying that I can love God more so that everything else can follow, but I still feel so, so divided.

The biggest idol that I have trouble tearing down, is my ego (self).

A thought for myself, is a thought that I've taken from the father.

(CLV) Dt 6:4
Hear, Israel! Yahweh is our Elohim; Yahweh the only One.

(CLV) Dt 6:5
So you will love Yahweh your Elohim with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your intensity.

(CLV) 1Th 5:17
Be praying unintermittingly.

 

[Richard T]

I have struggled like this too and what has helped me is to just ignore much of the noise and apprehensions and just keep confessing Jesus as Lord, learning the word, and praying that God keeps increasing in me. As to your faith being "me centered," if you ask amiss God will not answer, but I would guess that over time you will hit the bullseye far more often.

 

[timothyu]

just ignore much of the noise and apprehensions

You bring up an interesting point.

Everybody has noticed that voice (noise) in our head that talks inside rather then out loud, and it often conflicts with what our mouth speaks. It is not that other outside voice of a psychosis. This one is us and if you pay attention to it, you will notice it is rather confused, often contradicting itself. This of course manifests itself as anxiety, indecision etc. as we battle with ourselves.

Now think for a moment what this confused voice is. It is the result of the knowledge of good and evil which we have never mastered, instead often redefining good and evil to suit our current wants. This voice focuses us on the self which in turn leads us to self interest and seeking gain at the expense of others, which leads to what we call sins.

Jesus taught us to put God's will ahead of our own. Our will is given an identity using that inside voice that we all have where we talk to ourselves in our heads.

In other words to put God's will before our own, we are to ignore that voice in our head as it leads to confusion and has never been able to distinguish properly between good/evil, self/care for others, etc.. We are to ignore ourselves and our own good council we foolishly believe it to be.

It is the voice of confusion. We are confusion. Trusting in the will of God alone focuses us on what it right and that is the pursuit of loving all as self, caring for others before self. We then have repented of the self serving ways of man and instead have moved into a position of serving fellow man (and nature) as originally intended.

 

[AWorkInProgress]

Hey DoS,

Double-minded, doubt, fear... these are things that separate us from the truth. We may receive our salvation, it doesn't mean our corrupt sinful nature has left. We have to live with our corruption until we leave this earthly plain to glory. We are naturally inclined to seek and believe in the things of this world, it is in our nature to trade the truth for a lie. Thankfully our God is greater than the sinful nature that lives in us. That is why as long as we live in this world, the process of sanctification will be ongoing. Jesus will be our teacher from salvation until glory.

"You’re not saved by grace and then live the Christian life by your own efforts.

Grace is needed for every step."
-Dustin Benge

The Lord showed me grace and he was the strength I never had in my life before. Encouraged, guided, taught me to live, rescued me, gave me a wife. Years later my ears would be tickled for anything about prosperity, having a career that I would be respected in, having the nice things our hearts want. Even with all he did, I chased the wind and found false teaching. To learn how God was subjected to my whims.

By his grace, He snapped me out of it and put me on a path that leads me to who I am today. Many many many times I even questioned I was saved. My Lord is far more faithful than I could ever be.

 

[Duke of Stratford]

Very simply, what is it you personally feel a Christian should be doing that you personally are not?

Question.

When the Temple in the wilderness, Solomon's Temple, and Herod's Temple were all Dedicated, Consecrated to God, how long did it take for all of the implements to be use in the service in the Temple to become Sanctified?

Was this Sanctification process, an ongoing process or was it immediate so the workings of the Temple could begin immediately.

What would ever make you believe that your Sanctification is an ongoing process are you not of more worth than some Silver bowl or Gold spoon?

You are not progressively Sanctified into Holiness you are Baptized into Christ, being Justified and Sanctified in Him, immediately.

The biggest problem you are having is, you have never been told just where it is you stand IN Christ, and you are doubting whether or not you are actually standing at all because of it.

Maybe some of my phrasing was wrong--I don't mean sanctification as a process by meaning that salvation isn't immediate. I meant more along the lines of spiritual growth: becoming stronger in the faith, the will becoming more aligned with God's, etc. I've actually had a lot of people remind me where I stand as a child of God, redeemed in Christ. There are just things that make me doubt how true it is.

It's hard because I don't think there's one big sin I need to turn from. I struggle with trust, with dedication, with loving God COMPLETELY. I know I can never do anything perfectly while I'm on earth, but I feel like the state of my heart is so, so far from where it should be, and I can't really pinpoint why.

 

[JIMINZ]

Your wording was fine, I had no problem understanding that you meant that Sanctification is an ongoing process which takes a lifetime.
using you one words below.

I meant more along the lines of spiritual growth: becoming stronger in the faith, the will becoming more aligned with God's, etc.

I am telling you Sanctification is not a process at all, it takes place at the point of our Salvation, Sanctification is what happens during our Baptism, whereas Salvation is the end result which is immediate.

1Cor. 1:30
But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption:

2Th. 2:13
But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth: <------> same as below.

Mark 16:16
He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved;

 

[Dave G.]

Maybe some of my phrasing was wrong--I don't mean sanctification as a process by meaning that salvation isn't immediate. I meant more along the lines of spiritual growth: becoming stronger in the faith, the will becoming more aligned with God's, etc. I've actually had a lot of people remind me where I stand as a child of God, redeemed in Christ. There are just things that make me doubt how true it is.

It's hard because I don't think there's one big sin I need to turn from. I struggle with trust, with dedication, with loving God COMPLETELY. I know I can never do anything perfectly while I'm on earth, but I feel like the state of my heart is so, so far from where it should be, and I can't really pinpoint why.

DoS, we have to grow in sanctification and in grace and getting to know His mercy is fresh and new each day. You're young yet too. The last one we tend to recognize His grace in is ourselves lol !! Just trust and believe and somehow along the way we end up looking back and thinking I once was that and thank God He has been with me all along. It's not about us doing something but letting Him do something in us that we then follow His command. You can't force yourself to be better at anything in the spiritual way but He will feed you, water you etc. I can not describe how that will look for you but just trust that if you make yourself available He can. Believe it !! Non of us seem fit or worthwhile but to Him.

 

[reaThua9]

I know that salvation is salvation and that nothing can take it away once you have it. Sanctification is the process of becoming holy, and it takes a lifetime. But a lot of the time, I see surrender at salvation phrased as "total," "absolute," etc. If I have a divided heart, can I really say I have absolute faith and absolute trust? Can I truly say I'm in Christ? What if I haven't really experienced God's love and saving grace? My faith often feels me-centered instead of God-centered; I want to do things right more than I want to glorify God. I'm terrified that I'm deceiving myself into thinking I follow Christ when I really don't.

I don't know your heart or your testimony, so I definitely don't want to reassure you that you're saved if you're not. That being said, since I've struggled with reassurance of my salvation over the years, I can offer the things that have helped bring me peace. The thief on the cross (Luke 23:39-43) comes to mind: we have no evidence to prove that was in total, committed trust and surrender to Christ. And he definitely had no time to live a God-centered life. Yet his faith in Christ alone saved him. My pastor once said that it's about what Christ did, not what we did. So if we put our faith in Him, that's enough. Did we say the right thing, or have a clear heart, or the right motive? Doesn't matter. What matters is His death and resurrection, and whether we're trusting Him for our salvation.

Probably didn't say anything you don't already know, but those are the things that help me when I need to clear my head about doubts. God bless

 

[Dave-W]

don't think it's an issue of a specific sin, but rather a condition of the heart that I don't know can be repaired.

In the other thread i gave a brief description on the difference between condemnation and conviction. This is part of the attack against not what you did but who you are and fits the description of the condemnation.

IOW it is a lie from the enemy.