Double edged sword

[InSpiritInTruth]

In Hebrews 4:12 we read; “For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.”

We are also told in 1 Corinthians 15:45; “And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.
We are told the first man is of the earth, and is earthly (fleshy minded); but our last man is from heaven (spiritually minded). This is the division one must understand in order to rightly divide the Word of God.

Jesus said in John 3:6; “That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.” To be born again of God’s Holy Spirit is to become a new spiritual man (new wineskin) in Christ, and then made able to receive the new wine (New Spiritual Testament) of Jesus Christ. The old man (flesh) does not right away desire the new (spiritual) testament because he says the old (flesh) testament (wine) is better. I would like to give a few examples of how this division between the flesh and the Spirit are shown in scriptures for those who can receive it.

Those who were of the Old Covenant (flesh) received an outward (fleshy seal) of the circumcision of the flesh. But those who would receive the New Spiritual Covenant would receive an inward (spiritual seal) of the heart and mind by way of God’s Spirit. Romans 2:28-29; “28 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.”
In this we see the old outward covenant (flesh) was just a sign given of the new covenant (spiritual) to come in the Word (Spirit) made flesh in Jesus Christ. Let me give you a few examples of things that may seem to contradict, but actually do not when rightly divided. Jesus said in Matthew 5:18; “For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.” But we also read in Colossians 2:14; “Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;”

So what was taken out of the way nailed to the cross and abolished for those who believe? It was the flesh of the law. Ephesians 2:15; “Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;” In this we see the transformation of the fleshy law being put to death on the cross, but then being raised up new spiritual law in Christ Jesus. The enmity that is spoken of in that verse is the same enmity that was from the beginning between the flesh and Spirit, just as the carnal mind cannot receive the spiritual things of God.

The law of God was always spiritual but the carnally man could not see the spiritual side of it until the veil of the flesh was removed. That is why Moses wore a veil to cover his face so that the Glory of the law could not be seen by the fleshy mind. 2 Corinthians 3:14-16; “ But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ. But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart. Nevertheless when it shall turn to the Lord, the vail shall be taken away.”

So was it the law that was abolished, or was it the fleshy perception of it? It was the perception of it because Jesus said in Matthew 5:17; “Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfill.” Now Jesus did fulfill the natural law for us in his life, but be for sure not every jot and tittle of the spiritual law has been fulfilled until heaven and earth pass away as the Lord also said. And in order for a law to be fulfilled, that same natural law is now seen in a new spiritual Light by way of the Spirit of the Lord. And then by Him we can then see what many of the natural ordinances of the law were symbolizing, which is prophecy. Just as the testimony of Jesus Christ is the Spirit of prophecy.

So is the law made void? Romans 3:31; “Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.” So that which was once written outwardly, and understood carnally, is now written inwardly and understood spiritually by way of the revelation of Jesus Christ in us. Just as it is written in Hebrews 10:16; “This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;”

And so in this we see God’s Word is like a double edged sword, on the one side of the cross you have the flesh, and on the other side you have the Spirit. Just as God’s Word has the power to save, but also the power to destroy; depending on how it is received. John 3:17; “For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.


Pay close attention to what Jesus says here in John 12:47-48; “And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world. He that rejects me, and receives not my words, hath one that judges him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.”
Now compare to John 5:45; “Do not think that I will accuse you to the Father: there is one that accuses you, even Moses, in whom ye trust.”
In this we see the dividing asunder of flesh and spirit, and the Grace of God through faith in Jesus Christ, but also the condemnation of the natural law for those who do not believe in the only begotten Son of God.

Galatians 6:18; “Brethren, the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with your spirit. Amen.

 

[Clare73]

In Hebrews 4:12 we read; “For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.”

We are also told in 1 Corinthians 15:45; “And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.
We are told the first man is of the earth, and is earthly (fleshy minded); but our last man is from heaven (spiritually minded). This is the division one must understand in order to rightly divide the Word of God.

Jesus said in John 3:6; “That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.” To be born again of God’s Holy Spirit is to become a new spiritual man (new wineskin) in Christ, and then made able to receive the new wine (New Spiritual Testament) of Jesus Christ. The old man (flesh) does not right away desire the new (spiritual) testament because he says the old (flesh) testament (wine) is better. I would like to give a few examples of how this division between the flesh and the Spirit are shown in scriptures for those who can receive it.

Those who were of the Old Covenant (flesh) received an outward (fleshy seal) of the circumcision of the flesh. But those who would receive the New Spiritual Covenant would receive an inward (spiritual seal) of the heart and mind by way of God’s Spirit. Romans 2:28-29; “28 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.”
In this we see the old outward covenant (flesh) was just a sign given of the new covenant (spiritual) to come in the Word (Spirit) made flesh in Jesus Christ. Let me give you a few examples of things that may seem to contradict, but actually do not when rightly divided. Jesus said in Matthew 5:18; “For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.” But we also read in Colossians 2:14; “Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;”

So what was taken out of the way nailed to the cross and abolished for those who believe? It was the flesh of the law. Ephesians 2:15; “Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;”

Hi, InSpiritinTruth,

Actually, the context of Eph 2:15 is the enmity between Jew and Gentile (not between flesh and spirit) caused by the Law of Moses, particularly the food laws, which created a wall separating the "unclean" Gentiles from the Jews, with the Jews in their superiority being hostile to the unclean Gentiles.

Paul is stating that Jesus died on the cross to make two kinds of peace.
1) between Jew and Gentile - by abolishing the Mosaic Law, with its laws of clean/unclean, which separated the Jews from the Gentiles.
In abolishing the Mosaic Law with its laws of clean/unlean, Christ removed the barrier and wall of hostility which separated them, thus making peace between Jew and Gentile.

2) between mankind (Jew and Gentile) and God - Jesus' purpose was to create one man (his body) of the two (Jew and Gentile), and then to reconcile both of them, in this one body, to God, thus making peace between mankind and God, all through the cross.

In this context, "abolishing in his flesh" is not a contrast between flesh and spirit, but is a statement that Jesus created in himself (his body, his flesh), from Jews and Gentiles, his one new body, the Church; and through the sacrifice of his body, his flesh, on the cross, he made peace between (reconciled) his people (Jew and Gentile) to God.

In the faith,
Clare

 

[Fireinfolding]

Great post InSpirit I have been looking at this myself and started a studying on "the blottings" as spoken of before (in various ways). Just come back to post, saw Clare just posted and brings up a good point because here is an area where I have question (yet)

Romans 7:14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.

And that...

Romans 8:7 ...the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be. (even as the natural man cannot receive the things of the Spirit) this we know

Then here of Jesus Christ and what he did

Ephes 2:15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;

Ok, so the law of commandments contained in ordinances here (for verily the first had ordinances)

Heb 9:1 Then verily the first covenant had also ordinances of divine service, and a worldly sanctuary.

Speaks of the carnal (not spiritual) ordinances imposed here

Heb 9:10 Which stood only in meats and drinks, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances, imposed on them until the time of reformation.

So ordinances are spoken of (even carnal ordinances) in the first covenant, yet Paul speaks of the ordinances they kept (as he) delivered unto them

1Cr 11;2 Now I praise you, brethren, that ye remember me in all things, and keep the ordinances, as I delivered them to you.

Now, again, knowing this (that) the carnal mind is an enmity against God (not subject to the law of God) we see carnal ordinances being imposed (until the time) here (and more specifically here) the enmity is shown to be the law of commandments contained in the ordinances

Ephes 2:15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;

and again...

Ephes 2:16 And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:

Here is where it gets difficult for me. It does NOT say... Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, meaning the carnal mind (which is, no doubt) an enmity (also) and thus making "in himself" of the twain (one new man) Even though we know (most certainly) to be carnally minded is death and to be spiritually minded is life and peace.

Know what I mean?

the enmity,even the law of commandments contained in ordinances;

Not (specifically) "the enmity" contained in our skulls (in the place he was crucified (rightly named)

Col 2:14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;

To me, the veil of the flesh is a covering I do get that, but here is probrobly where I cannot show the ordinances remaining, especially if they were imposed (until) and being acknowledged as such. Or in respects to mentioning "these" as being contrary (even the emnity) as opposed to what is equally shown as the emnity (which is the carnal mind) as well. Because he speaks to some of them (still yet carnal) and of the renewing of their minds.

This also I am giving some thought to, sorta hitting a wall in trying to recconcile it in a better way without compromising the word any on this.

Still a bit unsure (by way of fully understanding)

Good stuff bro, you always bring up interesting things to consider, I am not convinced yet on some things and this might be one of them. In otherwords (I can acknowledge a thing) but fully understanding it (yet) no.


God bess you

 

[Fireinfolding]

I meant to click on your post and clicked your name and made a breif visit to your page, sorry about that, didnt mean to InSpirit

 

[InSpiritInTruth]

The enmity was from the beginning as shown in the 2 seeds.

Genesis 3:15
And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.

What would make a Jew differ from a Gentile? If you judge based on appearances you might say the flesh.

But God does not judge based on appearances (outwardly) but rather inwardly (heart and mind.) Just as God's chosen people are not a flesh and blood people, but a spiritual people.

That is why in Christ there is neither Jew or Gentile, but one new man in Christ by way of God's Spirit.

 

[Fireinfolding]

The enmity was from the beginning as shown in the 2 seeds.

Genesis 3:15
And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.

What would make a Jew differ from a Gentile? If you judge based on appearances you might say the flesh.

But God does not judge based on appearances (outwardly) but rather inwardly (heart and mind.) Just as God's chosen people are not a flesh and blood people, but a spiritual people.

That is why in Christ there is neither Jew or Gentile, but one new man in Christ by way of God's Spirit.

Those with the Spirit of Christ, I agree

His heel would be hers wouldnt it?

Romans 16:20 And the God of peace shall bruise Satan under your feet shortly.

Given His seed (the Word of God) abides in her (the Church) made up of both Jew and Gentile right?

 

[InSpiritInTruth]

I meant to click on your post and clicked your name and made a breif visit to your page, sorry about that, didnt mean to InSpirit

That's alright Sis, I just overposted you as well.

Ask yourself this, why did the letter of the law kill?

2 Corinthians 3:6
Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.

 

[InSpiritInTruth]

Those with the Spirit of Christ, I agree

His heel would be hers wouldnt it?

Romans 16:20 And the God of peace shall bruise Satan under your feet shortly.

Given His seed (the Word of God) abides in her (the Church) made up of both Jew and Gentile right?

That's right, but this enmity between flesh and spirit is shown over and over again in scripture, for instance Cain(flesh) who slew his own brother Abel (spirit).

Just as the fleshy minded Jews slew one of their own (as was supposed) in Jesus.

Jesus told them they were of their father the devil (of this world) which is the nature of the firstborn (flesh.)

 

[Fireinfolding]

That's alright Sis, I just overposted you as well.

Ask yourself this, why did the letter of the law kill?

2 Corinthians 3:6
Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.

We have the ministration of death and condemnation, and the ministration of the Spirit of life in Jesus Christ

Gal 3:21 Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law.

Speaks there of if there was even a law given which could have given life, then righteousness by the same should have come, whereas it also says a righteousness without the law is revealed. The ministry is of the spirit and not of the letter. Paul speaks of dying to the law through the body of Christ to marry Him who was raised from the dead (wherein also they were were held as dead) under the law (unto condemnation) where there is no condemnation in Christ. The law come by Moses (Jesus said he is your accuser) but grace and truth (by Jesus Christ) even Moses said it was Him you are to hear (being the first to trust in Christ) the righteousness of God without the law, verses ones own righteousness which come by the law, whereas theres no justification but condemnation being the ministry of the same.

 

[Fireinfolding]

That's right, but this enmity between flesh and spirit is shown over and over again in scripture, for instance Cain(flesh) who slew his own brother Abel (spirit).

Just as the fleshy minded Jews slew one of their own (as was supposed) in Jesus.

Jesus told them they were of their father the devil (of this world) which is the nature of the firstborn (flesh.)

Agreed, not as Cain who was of the wicked one who slew his brother

1John 3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.

1John 3:10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.

Ephes 2:3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.

The lusts of your father ye will do

 

[InSpiritInTruth]

We have the ministration of death and condemnation, and the ministration of the Spirit of life in Jesus Christ

Gal 3:21 Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law.

Speaks there of if there was even a law given which could have given life, then righteousness by the same should have come, whereas it also says a righteousness without the law is revealed. The ministry is of the spirit and not of the letter. Paul speaks of dying to the law through the body of Christ to marry Him who was raised from the dead (wherein also they were were held as dead) under the law (unto condemnation) where there is no condemnation in Christ. The law come by Moses (Jesus said he is your accuser) but grace and truth (by Jesus Christ) even Moses said it was Him you are to hear (being the first to trust in Christ) the righteousness of God without the law, verses ones own righteousness which come by the law, whereas theres no justification but condemnation being the ministry of the same.

Yes, but it wasn't the letter of the law that killed them, but sin taking occasion by the commandment deceived them.

By the law came the knowledge of sin. The law was contrary to them because of their fleshy sinful nature.

What they perceived to be as life to them actually worked the opposite because of the law of sin working in them.

Romans 8:2
For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

 

[Fireinfolding]

Yes, but it wasn't the letter of the law that killed them, but sin taking occasion by the commandment deceived them.

By the law came the knowledge of sin. The law was contrary to them because of their fleshy sinful nature.

What they perceived to be as life to them actually worked the opposite because of the law of sin working in them.

Romans 8:2
For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

Agree here too, even in respects to the new covenant (itself) it speaks of the letter also, dont you think?

Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.

Thats even in the context of the new covenant (not of the letter) but of the spirit. Even still, he speaks of being dead to the law and without the law sin is dead, and the righteousness without the law. But again I had mentioned the same on that one thread (asking for examples) where the topic come up being Paul who said he was alive (apart from the law) the commandment came and he died, and so the topic revolved around Paul having spiritual live (alive to Christ) if you followed the conversation, and I really couldnt say anything against that being the case. However when I see "thou shalt not covet" it doesnt at all make covetousness go wild inside of me so I dont know how that could work. Whereas the apostles made it quite clear the Gentiles were not to keep the law of Moses or the instruction of circumcision (after the manner of it) that the true circumcision is that of Christ (regardless of being circumcised or uncircumcised in the flesh) that manner is after the Spirit not after the flesh (anyway).

I know theres alot of surrounding issues on these things, and these I would like to tackle better myself, because I must admit there are certain things still unclear to me. Must acknowledge them (absolutely) but recconciling them perfectly isnt mine yet.


So good thread bro

 

[InSpiritInTruth]

A simple way to look at the natural law and the ministration of condemnation is to look at the tree of knowledge to know good from evil, which exposes sin. (nakedness) And by sin came death.

John 15:22
If I had not come and spoken unto them, they had not had sin: but now they have no cloak for their sin.

The natural law came to judge the world of sin, and by it came the knowledge of sin.

And then the Living Word (Word of Life) came not to judge the world, but to save and give Life. (Tree of Life)

The Tree of Life will not accuse you to the Father, but the tree of knowledge to know good from evil will, that is if you do not believe in the Tree of Life.

 

[Clare73]

That's alright Sis, I just overposted you as well.

Ask yourself this, why did the letter of the law kill?

2 Corinthians 3:6
Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.

Okay, this is gonna' come as a shocker, because we have misunderstood it as a dichotomy for at least a generation now.

Read the verse: it does not state letter of the law, it states only the letter, which means the written law.
And it does not state spirit of the law, it states only the spirit, which means the Holy Spirit.

The Law killeth (with its curse on disobedience), but the Holy Spirit giveth life (through grace by faith, not law keeping).

2Co 3:6 is not a dichotomy of the Law, between its "letter" and its "spirit."
There is no such thing.
Its letter is its spirit. They are one and the same.
What God says in his law has no other meaning (spirit) than its letter (what is written, and as it is written).

Whether it is obeyed from legalistic fear, or from love, does not make it a matter of the law's "letter" or "spirit,"
that's a matter of the heart, not of the meaning of the law.
The meaning of the letter (law) remains the same.

2Co 3:6 contrasts the Law which brings death, with the Holy Spirit which gives life.
It does not dichotomize the Law into its "letter" and its "spirit".

There is a whole theology built on this false dichotomy of the "letter of the law" vs. the "spirit of the law," and imposed on some of the Scriptures.

I told ya' it would be a shocker. . .think about it.

Clare

 

[Fireinfolding]

That too sounds good InSpirit. Who told them what they already were (naked). They were both naked before they ate only the shame of it appears after.

Same wording here....

Rev 3:18 I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear


Heb 4:13 Neither is there any creature that is not manifest in his sight: but all things are naked and opened unto the eyes of him with whom we have to do.

Isaiah 47:3 Thy nakedness shall be uncovered, yea, thy shame shall be seen: I will take vengeance, and I will not meet thee as a man.

Job 31:33 If I covered my transgressions as Adam, by hiding """mine iniquity"" in my bosom:

Whereas...

1John 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

Even here though...

Rev 2:7 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God.


Rev 22:14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

It also says the commandment that was ordained to life when (if they two being equal) both the law to the tree of knowledge of good and evil they seem anything but (in that particular comparison) because he said "ye shall surely die" (not live) as was issued there, that one sorta gets me to.

 

[Fireinfolding]

Okay, this is gonna' come as a shocker, because we have misunderstood it as a dichotomy for at least a generation now.

Read the verse: there is no letter of the law, there is only the letter, which means the written law.
And there is no spirit of the law, there is only the spirit, which means the Holy Spirit.

The Law killeth (with its curse on disobedience), but the Holy Spirit giveth life (through grace by faith, not law keeping).

2Co 3:6 is not a dichotomy of the Law, between its "letter" and its "spirit."
There is no such thing.
Its letter is its spirit. They are one and the same.
What God says in his law has no other meaning (spirit) than what it says.

Whether it is obeyed from love, or legalistic fear, is not a matter of the law's "letter" or "spirit," but only a matter of one's heart.
The meaning of the letter (law) remains the same.

2Co 3:6 contrasts the Law which brings death, with the Holy Spirit which gives life.
It does not dichotomize the Law into its "letter" and its "spirit".

There is a whole theology built on this false dichotomy of the "letter of the law" vs. the "spirit of the law".

I told ya' it would be a shocker. . .think about it.

Clare

Clare, go on, Im listening, maybe you can better clarify what you mean even in another way, if you could

 

[InSpiritInTruth]

Okay, this is gonna' come as a shocker, because we have misunderstood it as a dichotomy for at least a generation now.

Read the verse: there is no letter of the law, there is only the letter, which means the written law.
And there is no spirit of the law, there is only the spirit, which means the Holy Spirit.

The Law killeth (with its curse on disobedience), but the Holy Spirit giveth life (through grace by faith, not law keeping).

2Co 3:6 is not a dichotomy of the Law, between its "letter" and its "spirit."
There is no such thing.
Its letter is[/u] its spirit.


2Co 3:6 contrasts the Law which brings death, with the Holy Spirit which gives life. It does not dichotomize the Law into its "letter" and its "spirit".

There is a whole theology built on this false dichotomy of the "letter of the law" vs. the "spirit of the law".

I told ya' it would be a shocker. . .think about it.

Clare

It's not a shocker to me because I understand it as the Lord has shown me.

There is a law of sin, and a law of righteousness.

What law do you suppose the Lord spoke of when He mentioned the New Covenant where He said He would write His laws upon their hearts and minds?

This inward covenant is the spiritual law of righteousness (written inwardly) and sealed by way of a spiritual circumcision. The natural law written on tablets (outwardly) was just a sign of the greater spiritual to come (inwardly) by way of God's Word and Spirit dwelling in us. (Christ in us)

Romans 7:6
But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.

Romans 7:14
For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.


Romans 8:2
For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

 

[Fireinfolding]

It's not a shocker to me because I understand it as the Lord has shown me.

There is a law of sin, and a law of righteousness.

What law do you suppose the Lord spoke of when He mentioned the New Covenant where He said He would write His laws upon their hearts and minds?

This inward covenant is the spiritual law of righteousness (written inwardly) and sealed by way of a spiritual circumcision. The natural law written on tablets (outwardly) was just a sign of the greater spiritual to come (inwardly) by way of God's Word and Spirit dwelling in us. (Christ in us)

Romans 7:6
But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.

Romans 7:14
For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.


Romans 8:2
For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

This is good, how on earth can someone live in the oldness of letter? Doesnt that mean more of a concrete natural way of understanding and trying to live out the law (in that manner)?

 

[Clare73]

Okay, this is gonna' come as a shocker, because we have misunderstood it as a dichotomy for at least a generation now.

Read the verse: it does not stateletter of the law, it states only the letter, which means the written law.
And it does not state spirit of the law, it states only the spirit, which means the Holy Spirit.

The Law killeth (with its curse on disobedience), but the Holy Spirit giveth life (through grace by faith, not law keeping).

2Co 3:6 is not a dichotomy of the Law, between its "letter" and its "spirit."
There is no such thing.
Its letter is its spirit. They are one and the same.
What God says in his law has no other meaning (spirit) than its letter (what is written, and as it is written).

Whether it is obeyed from legalistic fear, or from love, does not make it a matter of the law's "letter" or "spirit," that's a matter of the heart, not of the meaning of the law.
The meaning of the letter (law) remains the same.

2Co 3:6 contrasts the Law which brings death, with the Holy Spirit which gives life.
It does not dichotomize the Law into its "letter" and its "spirit".

There is a whole theology built on this false dichotomy of the "letter of the law" vs. the "spirit of the law," and imposed on some of the Scriptures. But these phrases are not in Scripture.

I told ya' it would be a shocker. . .think about it.

Clare

Clare, go on, Im listening, maybe you can better clarify what you mean even in another way, if you could

Hi, Fireinfolding,

Well, you will hear believers, in trying to explain why a Biblical figure's action seems contrary to the Mosaic Law, say that they were following the "spirit of the law" and not just the "letter of the law," as though there is a dichotomy of the Law in which the "spirit" trumps the "letter."

For example, in the woman taken in adultery, whom Jesus did not have stoned according to the Law. Some explain it as Jesus was following the "spirit of the law" and not just the "letter of the law."

None of that is Scriptural.

Perhaps you could give examples yourself.

Does this help?

 

[InSpiritInTruth]

This is good, how on earth can someone live in the oldness of letter? Doesnt that mean more of a concrete natural way of understanding and trying to live out the law (in that manner)?

You mean serve the oldness of the letter? We were all once servants of sin, and under the law of sin.

Romans 3:19
Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.

Why is the world guilty? Because of sin.

Romans 6:14
For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.