Don't you resent it when divorced are called 'singles'?

The other thing, desper84unity, is that if it's run correctly a singles group promotes serving God while single. In that context, saying that a singles group promotes remarriage is like saying that a women's fellowship promotes lesbianism.

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desi said:

I find it offensive when divorced people are welcomed at singles church events. Divorce implies either a disrespect to marriage and God, or poor judgement in partner selection. The baggage of both of which should at the least exclude them from marrying true Christian singles.

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I only have one word for this disrespectful post: HARSH!!!
Divorced people are still people!!! They are the exact same as everyone else. They just happen to have a failed marriage which may or may not be their fault. So...a person who was being abused and is now divorced is said to disrespect marriage and/or God? I don't think so! Or what about a person who was being cheated on? I think that divorced people are no less of people...they are human beings who are not perfect and also who God created. No one is better than anyone else, we are all equal human beings. We have no idea why a person was divorced and to make such cruel assumptions is not very nice and rather rude and judgemental. I really don't care if divorced people are called single...because they are! They are not married which technically makes them single. As long as they are not still married...they are single which I think is fine if they are put in a singles group at church. I totally agree that Church should not be a dating service and neither should being in Youth or Young Adults...if you do meet someone that way, great but if not...there is someone else out there for you...

I was actually thinking of the verses you said to read when I made my post, desp, thanks for showing me where it is. That verse says what it means. But do you think that God does not have the authority to forgive past mistakes/sins? I hope you do. Christ died on the cross to be able to do just that. No blood sacrifices, no more killing of animals, no more any of that. Just you and Him. Man or church as a whole has no business trying to play God.

I said it before in my post and it was my whole point. If you don't repent of your past, and you marry or have sex afterwards you are committing adultery. But if you repent of your past sins/mistakes, God said He didn't want to hear about it ever again, you are free.

You see the only unforgivable sin is mentioned in that same great book of Mark you have read. Mark 3:28 states; Verily I say unto you, all sins shall be forgiven unto the sons of men, and blasphemies wherewith soever they blaspheme.....it goes on to say there is only one unforgiveable sin, but it's not past marital mistakes, relationships, or divorce. In fact it has nothing to do with sex or relationships between two human beings at all. To reassure you (if need be) and it makes you feel better...it was said before the statement about divorce, so you can rest assured, God spoke THIS before he spoke THAT. Either way, God is greater than anyone's past mistakes or sins. I can really understand resentment torwards others that maybe have a different belief or way of doing things, but to resent someone because of an issue of opportunity or even of fellowship with christians, I can't think that that would be too cool with God.

Jesus said he was the type of shepherd that he would leave the whole flock to save one little select lost sheep in need. Those who are turning away or judging others because of some mistake they assume is bigger than what God did on the cross, I say shame on you, and watch out because God doesn't like it.

Do you think it is any mistake that it is in the bible that Moses stuck up for the single women at the "well", when the resident men were trying to push them away and deny them of what it had to offer, because there was a "resentment" there? I'm not judging you nor would I ever...and it is obvious you are a man who loves Christ. I'm just saying, why not give other christians a break? No one is perfect and the church can't afford to have a "group" for every "category" of sinners out there. I think the most important thing about this whole thing is that they're in church in the first place....don't you agree?

To say that is a mistake (ok at worst a lie). God didn't say to marry a divorcee is a sin. Read what you said to read again.


Mark 10:11 - And he saith unto them, Whosoever shall put away his wife, and marry another, committeth adultery against her. (12) And if a woman shall put away HER husband, and be married to another, she committeth adultery.

I find it ironic that I used the young girls at the well being turned away in this subject, don't you? Because in the 14th verse of this same chapter Jesus said; Suffer the little children to come unto me, and forbid them not: for of such is the kingdom of God.

Read into His Word all that you want to, his forgiveness still stands. Jesus was forgiving sins even before he died on the cross, imagine the uproar and issues with that one.

lambslove said:

What in the world goes on at your church desper84unity, that anyone is chasing anyone at singles' group? I am shocked that any singles' group in a Christian church would be that kind of meat market at all; it sounds more appropriate to some kind of bar than a church!

Why wouldn't a father of a 20 year old be just as angry that ANYONE is chasing his daughter in the group at all, whether or not they are divorced. After all, that's NOT what she's going to church for! She's there to worship God, to find wholesome fellowship, and to grow in the faith, NOT to be oogled by any man, divorced or "single."

As for your annoyance at the term "single" being applied to divorced folks, maybe we should label them, "keepers" (singles) and "losers" (divorced). Then eveyone would know right up front who's going to make a good spouse and who isn't, so they won't waste their time getting to know and enjoying the wisdom, fellowship and companionship of people who once failed.

Better yet, maybe we should exile all divorced people to a separate church where they can mingle among themselves without the risk of infecting innocent singles with their divorce cooties.

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BEAUTIFULLY written

YouthPastor said:

I agree - oogling has no place in any church event. But it is or can be an environement to get to be friends with a bunch of people - get to know them - how they act etc.. and eventually find your spouse.

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yes we do need to realize that this is a great way for singles to meet potential spouses. there is nothing wrong with being aware of people around you and maybe meet someone you might like to date. where would we prefer them to meet potential spouses, the bar?

You see, the reason why divorce is so bad is because it is a something that can't be hidden... so it becomes the end-all sin

desper84unity said:

Super Gnat:

I don't think you would do very well on the SAT's right now.

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I'd say by the population of the world show's that it is far more likely that a male/female relationship will develop.

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But it's not impossible, right? In fact, the increased intimacy might cause two women or two men to start to have intense feelings for each other, and cause them to stumble. Why wouldn't that be as important as preventing the same thing between a never-married and a divorcee?

Christ was obviously giving a standard regarding male/female relationships.

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I'm not disagreeing with you about divorcees pursuing new relationships. Right now, I'm not sure what to think about that. What I'm disagreeing with is that a singles group will automatically promote marriage by the simple fact of it existing. I'm also in the music ministry at my church, and there are divorcees in that group. Does the "increased intimacy" apply to ministries besides a singles ministry? After all, a divorcee in the choir could just as easily fall in love with a never-married as they oculd in a singles group. (More easily at my church; the Praise Team is a lot more close-knit than the singles group.) Shouldn't you be condemning them too for permitting divorcees and never-marrieds to come in close contact with each other?

And what standard are you referring to? As far as I know, no NT person ever said that divorcees and single people shouldn't mingle together.

God didn't say to marry a divorcee is a sin.

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Jesus said "whosoever shall marry her that is divorced committeth adultery". Here are 4 gospel accounts on what Jesus had to say on marriage and divorce.

(From the Sermon on the Mount)
"But I say unto you, That whosoever shall put away his wife, saving for the cause of fornication, causeth her to commit adultery: and whosoever shall marry her that is divorced committeth adultery." Matthew 5:32
(Speaking to the Pharisees)
"And I say unto you, Whosoever shall put away his wife, except it be for fornication, and shall marry another, committeth adultery: and whoso marrieth her which is put away doth commit adultery." Matthew 19:9
(Speaking to the disciples, after speaking to the Pharisees)
"And he saith unto them, Whosoever shall put away his wife, and marry another, committeth adultery against her.
And if a woman shall put away her husband, and be married to another, she committeth adultery." Mark 10:11-12
(Speaking to the Pharisees)
"Whosoever putteth away his wife, and marrieth another, committeth adultery: and whosoever marrieth her that is put away from her husband committeth adultery." Luke 16:18

This is something we can't just "white out" of our Bibles, and I salute desper84unity for bringing us to searching what the scripture has to say on it.

Paul, of course, also has a chapter on fornication, marriage and divorce in I Corinthians 7.

"The point I am trying to make is that God is Holy and pure and doesn't want the divorced marrying the never married. It is a matter of the heart of God,
And remember Paul said he'd rather lots of us would just stay in the state we find ourself in, so that we can concentrate on serving God. That's my goal, to stay single (and divorced), uphold God's highest standards, and strive to serve him by obeying him in the most meaningful way.[/QUOTE]"




Perhaps, Desper84unity, this is what the Lord is calling you specifically to do...to uphold the standard where the emphasis is on the sanctity of marriage to only one person for life. I have a friend who believes that working on Sundays is a great sin, because it would not be honouring the Lord's Day. I don't quite share that point of view...I think that the Sabbath is a principle that is in our best interest to be observed, but I don't see anything wrong with taking the day of rest on a different day (as such, many ministers are technically "working" in the pulpits on Sunday anyways...and my minister tries to take his day off on Mondays). I think that she may be called to observe not working on Sundays as her witness to the world that the Sabbath is to be taken seriously to honour the Lord. If that is what the Lord calls her to do...then she should do it. She will be able to attract others to the Kingdom who will be drawn to this witness.

But, back to the divorce issue... I believe that biblically, there are grounds for remarriage for the divorced in some circumstances. I think that some of the divorced will be called to remarry...and given another chance to remarry.

I think, too, that if one is called to remain single, after being divorced...then that is his/her specific calling from the Lord. But I'm saying this, because I am of the viewpoint that remarriage is permissable under certain circumstances.

Again, we may have to agree to disagree.

Blessings to you, in Christ!

ebd

How many times can you tell someone that Christ can forgive past mistakes and it not sink in? Oh well....some people understand the significance of what Christ did, and some refuse to recognize him at all even. That's what put him on the cross in the first place. I'm just glad I'm on His side. You salute your man and his traditions and resentment, I'll salute Christ.

desper84unity said:

Enlow:
Bad twist job.

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huh?

desper84unity said:

I believe you are mixing Paul's guidance, with the very Word of Jesus Christ spoken to a large group of non-christians, including Pharisees. Jesus was very plain and clear. Jesus said MOSES allowed divorce because of the hardness of the peoples hearts. Christ was telling the Pharisees that from his heart he (God) never wanted divorce. Then he said that if you do divorce, just realize to marry the divorced person is commiting adultery IN GOD's eyes, and thus a hard hearted thing. Do you want a hard heart?

Reading and refering carefully to the Mark 10:4-12 would be very helpful.

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I made no reference at all to Paul. However, I give you my apologies for not providing the exact verse where Jesus himself told us where remarriage would be permissible. Open your bible to Matthew 19:4-9. This is not Paul's guidance. These are Jesus' words. I understand that Mark doesn't talk about the conditions where remarriage is permissible. But the bible doesn't end with Mark.

desper84unity said:

God (Jesus) said that to marry a divorced person is adulterous. Did CHRIST say it wasn't adulterous? Is adultery something we want to do?

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Again, refer to Matthew 19:4-9 for a more complete citation of Jesus' words.

desper84unity said:

Then why should the 'church' promote intimacy in small groups for singles that include never married singles and the divorced, if that may lead to a marriage that is adulterous in Christ's eyes?

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I'm still not sure what kind of intimacy you're suggesting. I never thought of a church as a place to develop intimate relationships with other people. To me church is a place where I try to form an intimate relationship with God.

desper84unity said:

The point of this thread is that we should obey CHRIST's heart which shows God love. Read I John 5:3. To obey Christ in this will lead to a more unified church, because God blesses obedience.

Your so indignant, get MAD at Christ, take it to him, be outraged at Christ's own words.

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I did apologise for my earlier rant. And I'll apologize again for that. However, you're suggesting I'm mad at Christ, and outraged at his own words. That couldn't be farther from the truth. I'm only quoting a different part of the bible for you. Unless you can show me that Matthew's writings are false, I don't see how you can discount what Jesus said about divorce.

I'm going to pray for your heart despar84unity. You appear to have some issues about divorced people. I'm not asking you to marry one, and I would never ask anyone to marry a divorced person. In fact, I considered carefully whether I should remarry or not for several years after my divorce. I'm confident that God has told me it's ok to remarry (see Matthew) and that I should do so some time. However, He has also told me very strongly to do it right.

I don't think I can add anymore to this thread. You have your opinion (biblically based on Mark) , I have mine, which is biblically based on Matthew. I just hope that you can accept divorced people in your church, and accept that they will interact with the entire congregation like all children of God.
Enslow

Why do you insist on using God's own inspired Word against Him and His sheep? Satan, the Pharisees, "certain" Jews (Rev. 3:7-9, 2:9), and a host of others who think they're gaining something seperately without the aid of God's Spirit, have tried to use His Word against Him.

Hosea 2:2 God talking about Israel - Plead with your mother, plead: for she is NOT my wife, neither am I her husband: let her therefore put away her whoredoms out of her sight, and her adulteries from between her breasts; (3) Lest I strip her naked, and set her as in the day that she was born, and make her as a wilderness, and set her like a dry land, and slay her with thirst.

Note God telling Israel she wasn't His own anymore. I didn't say that, God did. God is a divorcee. If it wasn't in His heart to do it, only man, then how could he have done it?

But wait that isn't all. Isn't it a sin for a man to take back his wife after she has put her away and she's been with another (an EVIL thing as YOU call these things)? It is according to God's Word. Why then do we have God taking back dirty ole Israel?

Hosea 1:9 - Then said God, Call his name Loammi (not my people): for ye are NOT my people, and I will not be your God. (remember I didn't say that God did). (10) Yet the number of the children of Israel shall be as the sand of the sea, which cannot be measured nor numbered; and it shall come to pass, that in the place where it was said unto them, Ye are not my people, there it shall be said unto them, Ye are the sons of the living God.

According to someone like you God is contradicting Himself, because you can't seem to get over God's instruction to the flesh and put Christ into the picture and see His power in this (Christianity as a whole in this instance). Then 10 others will see what you say and tell others that, "the bible contradicts itself" thanks to your stubborness. This is why I don't like what is being said in this thread, nor do I what caused the resentment that started it. I don't like Satan, and I don't like bad seeds.

That isn't the only place God takes her back after putting her away, here is another;

Hosea 2:20 - I will even betroth thee unto me in faithfulness: and thou shalt know the Lord.
Hosea 3 - (1) Then said the Lord unto me, Go yet, love a woman beloved of her friends, yet an ADULTERESS, ACCORDING to the love of the LORD toward the children of Israel, who look to other gods, and love flagons of wine (cakes of raisins). (2) So I bought her to me for fifteen pieces of silver, and for an homer (16.5 bushels) of barley, and half an homer of barley: (3) And I said unto her, Thou shalt abide for me many days; thou shalt not play the harlot, and thou shalt not be for another man: so will I also be for thee. (4) For the children of Israel shall abide many days without a king, and without a prince, and without a "sacrifice" (hmmm - I wonder who took that away), and without an ephod and without teraphim: (5) Afterward shall the children of Israel RETURN, and seek the Lord their God, and David (Jesus, Son of David, King of Kings) their king; and shall fear the Lord and his goodness in the LATTER days.

God not only takes her back, He buys her back as if she were still a harlot when He paid for her. Talk about LOVE!! God is da MAN!!

I'm afraid I'm still using scripture that pertains to this in a prophetic way and you won't grasp it's meaning. Do you not have the eyes to see? Some weren't given them to start with. I'm not judging you or anyone else,it's just not your time to learn yet.

You see none of this would have been possible without Jesus' sacrifice on that cross. You see Israel's new name is now "Christian", and blood is what was used to buy her back. It worked. Oh wait...you probably think the nation of Israel is all of Israel. That would lead to another contradiction, seeings how in these latter days the majority isn't exactly spreading the image of a cross across their national flag; like Switzerland, Sweden, Britian, etc etc etc. Silly. That's just our still beloved brothers and sisters of Judah and some of Levi. Wonder where the ten "lost" tribes are that God "bought back" with the blood of Christ and still claim Him now more than ever? Doesn't take a genius does it?

Anyhow, if God can do it through Christ, I dare say a man can too.