Don't you resent it when divorced are called 'singles'?

lambslove said:

But you have to agree that oogling has no place in ANY church group or event. We're not organizing lust-fests, are we?

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I agree - oogling has no place in any church event. But it is or can be an environement to get to be friends with a bunch of people - get to know them - how they act etc.. and eventually find your spouse.

desper84unity said:

The point I am trying to make is that God is Holy and pure and doesn't want the divorced marrying the never married.

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However, there is no verse for this. paul says that they must marry in the Lord - never specifies that they have to marry a "single" person.

I understand where yo are coming from.

I personally agree too that the divorced should be seperated from "singles" because - they are facing differnt things. The reason we have different "groups" like youth, kids, college age, etc.. is so that the issues that those people are facing can be talk about.

Combined, you will need to deal with different issues for the divorced than you will with the singles. Singles are not going to want ot listen to a discussion or a sermon on "putting your life back together after a divorce" - just an example.

I think that each group has certain issues that need to be dealt with/discussed - and dealing with it in a combined setting will "alienate" one of them.

It comes down to the church really.

First off the "church", you speak of at least the churches of the NT, didnt and would not have single group meetings, everyone was an active participant and they met in home...those meeting were guided by the Holy Spirit, not a sermon, evangilising was done outside the "church".
You can spit scripture out all day about "divorce" and "adultry" and i can spit out ones that contradict or are the loophole. That is nothing new. But Jesus himself accepted prostitutes, tax collectors, even lepers, all where welcome and all thought no different in his eyes, the simple fact that the church feels it should have the power to do so....isnt biblical in the first place you are speaking of the instutionalized church, that "man" put together. It makes no sense to have a talk about divorce at a singles meeting if a church did so they have issues themselves, but could the divorced not benifit from a talk of purity, holding out, about dating, what real love is how to find and maintain it, being a biblical husband or wife? Should they cause, their wife left them, not get that oppertunity, or should there be a class for divorcee's, single divorcee's, the terminally ill....they shouldnt have the right to marry a healthy person, lets see where else can you seperate the church.

That may be a tad extreme but the point is, the guy you are referring to, Jesus, was the biggest advocate of second chances, that is part of the reason he died for us, once you start seperating everyone into groups where is all the unity, people will feel outside, cause that is exactly where you are placing them. Good message to send to nonbelievers.

Anyone can back there opinion biblically (hence all the denomonations today) but segreagation of groups, any kind, to say this person is obediant and if not cant receive SPIRTUAL revival, is an opinion, your opinion, none the less, its not Gods opinion cause you have no idea what his final say is, you could be competely wrong in your thinking, and thats okay, so could I but accroding to what i have read in the same book as you have, I dont see your point nor your backing.

Once an adulteress always an adultress.....then what the heck in forgiveness for?

Warrior Poet

Nice post WP

ukok said:

that was a very healthy post mrstace. well said.

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Very, very well said!

I couldn't have said it better WP. Want to write all my posts?

There were some concepts implied in earlier posts that I know weren't intended implications.

"Combined, you will need to deal with different issues for the divorced than you will with the singles. Singles are not going to want ot listen to a discussion or a sermon on "putting your life back together after a divorce" - just an example."

This quote implies that as a divorcee I am still learning to put my life back together. If I were still recovering from my divorce, I wouldn't expect my girlfriend to put up with that. It would not be fair for me to be courting anyone. That is partly one reason we saw each other as friends for some months first. I had to make sure I wasn't going to be taking in any baggage into a relationship.

"And God in me is saying to the church, stop putting the divorced in intimate relational contact with the never married."

The only way you could achieve this is to ban me from the church. I would not attend a church which prohibitted me from a singles bible study. God has granted me a second chance as a single person. I intend to do things right this time. Don't you think single people would like to hear my story so they might learn from it?

Anyway, I'd better leave this thread. I'm in a singles ministry! ACK!

Enslow

Desperate4unity:

I can understand your point of view...but I don't agree with you entirely. I do agree with you that God hates divorce.

However, I do know of some people who have been divorced (often, in some cases, not of their own choosing). They are people who I think that many would call Spirit-filled. For instance, Catherine Marshall (widow of Peter Marshall, the US Senate Chaplain) remarried after Peter passed on, and she married a divorced man, Len Lesourd. She wrote a book on the Holy Spirit ...sometime in the 50's or 60's. (I'm not sure...I'd have to dig up that book from my bookshelf to be certain). If you read about their romance, it appeared that when Len prayed about finding a second wife, Catherine's name "dropped" into his heart...and eventually, she also felt guided by God's Spirit to marry Len. She was troubled by the adultery/remarriage issue, though, even though she did believe that at the time that the Lord was leading Len and her together. I think that it took many years until she felt at peace about it, and even so, in one of her books which had a biographical account of her life, her family (the second one), wanted it published that divorce is damaging.

There's also Joe White, the man who heads a well-known Christian camp and ministry (which, ironically, I can't remember at the moment), who has been a frequent guest on Focus on the Family. His first wife fell in love with his best friend and left him. I think that Joe remarried again a few years after.

You are right that divorce is nasty and is wounding to many that are not even the couple themselves...the children, the extended family, etc.

But I think that there can be grace even in circumstances such as these.

We may have to agree to disagree.

God bless.

lambslove said:

...We're not organizing lust-fests, are we?

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I'm sorry, but I got a chuckle out of this.
It reminded me of Homestar Runners "ALL UP ON'S!"

But on to the topic...
IRT the original question.
I'm not, nor have I ever been, offended by a divorced person being called single.
Even though they/we were married, we no longer are.
We have had that separation, wether the situation was right or wrong.
I find myself offended when a person with ill intent is trying to find someone.

Okay now this has me questioning the purpose of a Singles group.
My understanding was that it was to allow people who were single and facing the same challanges to fellowship, and not a way to introduce people to "people they can date".
Under the "people they can.... with" idea I'm wondering if the purpose of the "working adults" group is to get everyone to start a business with someone in the group.

desper84unity i dont have much to say except i totally agree with ur posts..why on earth should divorcees be in a singles groups,and why label it 'segregation'?its like saying why are married people not in singles or men in womens groups....simple,cos they dont truly fit the category.

desper84unity said:

Good comparison.

Despite the intended 'purpose' of the group, we have our own will and our own 'purpose'. Put people together and the relational reaction will happen. Divorced will relate to the never married in the more intimate atmosphere of a singles group and relations will develop, some of which will lead to marriage. In your hypothetical 'workers group' business will be transacted. Matter of fact, I have a friend in 'market place ministry', which is about using ones business to further God's christian outreach. In that group there are constantly business deals going on.

The chemistry that drives a lot of relational things between the sexes, despite our intent, is biological, and emotional. And if the church has hung out a sign that it says its okay to have the divorced 'singles' in the close company of never married singles, chemistry will happen, there will be relationships forming, some leading to marriage.

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Whaa? They're together in regular church. Why would a singles group be different?

Warrior Poet

desper84unity said:

Good comparison.

Despite the intended 'purpose' of the group, we have our own will and our own 'purpose'. Put people together and the relational reaction will happen. Divorced will relate to the never married in the more intimate atmosphere of a singles group and relations will develop, some of which will lead to marriage. In your hypothetical 'workers group' business will be transacted. Matter of fact, I have a friend in 'market place ministry', which is about using ones business to further God's christian outreach. In that group there are constantly business deals going on.

The chemistry that drives a lot of relational things between the sexes, despite our intent, is biological, and emotional. And if the church has hung out a sign that it says its okay to have the divorced 'singles' in the close company of never married singles, chemistry will happen, there will be relationships forming, some leading to marriage.

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And here is where you have lost me, why again is this such a bad thing? Are the divorced a disese that everything they touch becomes infected?

Heaven forbid in a church atmosphere we assume that people start to share a spirtual connection rather then a physical one, and allow the never been married singles to choose the individual they want to grow with. Called free will my friend, you have no right wether you think that God is speaking through you to the church or not, to try and take that from them.

Cute you are comparing to apples to pinnaples.....they are totaly different. It would have worked better saying......Well then married men should not be allowed in a Mens group nor married women in Womens group, they should have their own Married mens group, and married womens group. Cause they arent just men or women they are MARRIED. And that is exactly what segragation is. Take a long look at what church of Jesus's day was, there was no "segragation" because it is not biblical nor what Jesus or any of his followers supported, so why is it today ok to do so? By the way who defines the category's you are speaking of anyway?

Thank you....I just want to get the gears turning that all, I mean all the gears...not just one.

Warrior Poet: Out

I guess it's final. I'm one of those sickos who will pollute the minds of all never-married people out there. Hang a sign on me warning all of society I'm tainted. Unfit to be in close proximity to any unmarried person.

Let's go farther. Let's make a separate room for divorcees so that they can have no interactioin with never married people during fellowship meetings after the service.

I should quit my job because I may teach my students bad relationship skills, increasing their chances of divorce.
I'd better break up with my girlfriend, with whom I believe we have a very Christian like relationship. But even though I didn't meet her in a singles group, I must be poisoning her mind and soul.



I'm sorry, but I just had to rant.

Enslow

Hi I just ran by this thread and I had to say that that was very well said mrstace. As a 32 yr old single man, I have been in one sinful failed relationship after another. I should be worse in some people's eyes than a divorcee. At least he tried to committ with vows before God. How does being experienced at relationships automatically make someone a predator or a "bigger" sinner than anyone else? I am not saying that you are judging people, but if you ARE having problems judging others just because they have made mistakes in their lives, then just remember that each day is a new day in Christ for you, for me, and for whomsoever will. It is that simple. It is the hardest thing for the flesh mind to understand, but God is not flesh. He has the power to make this be.

Some churchs' policies on divorce make me cringe at the thought. You can't be a deacon if you are divorced. Who says? God didn't. You see God is a divorcee Himself. He divorced Israel because of her adultery, which is to say her idolatry (book of Hosea). I ask you this....where is God's great judge?
What a shame that he couldn't become so much as a deacon in His own church.

Please do not think that I am justifying sin. I am not. Sin is marrying again after not having repented of the first "mistake" (the previous marriage). God wants you to think about what you did, and not do it again, if indeed it was your fault. He does this for your sake, and for your future spouse's sake. This is an issue of repentance in Christ's name, not for other men to tell you how you should "pay" for it.

I think the underlying issue that resulted in this thread in the first place is that someone had a problem with the more experienced being grouped together with the lesser. This sounds like more of a competition/resentment thing to me than true "concern".

Evil is the only thing in this world that deserves our resentment, not people who are in the 'wrong' group. We all deserve to die, none of us deserve to be in God's "group," yet by grace we are. Can we show this same grace to people who have had different experiences then us? They ARE single, after all.

-LIY



Love one another........please. -Jesus

desper84unity said:

Let's hear you rationalize the very Word of God, Jesus Christ, Mark 10:4-12. Stick to it and tell what us what HE really means.

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For one thing, the Word of God does NOT say keep divorcees away from the never-married.

Second, (I forget the exact verse because I don't have a bible in front of me) Jesus himself says that one commits adultry if you remarry UNLESS your former spouse leaves you and was not a Christian, or cheated on you. So Jesus instructs us that God allows for divorce because our hearts are hard.

Enslow