Don't use someone's loss to try and sell your religion

[ViaCrucis]

Wasn't exactly sure where to post this, but thought maybe some place like this might be most appropriate (mods feel free to move it or correct me if I'm wrong).

So here's the thing--don't use someone's loss as a means of trying to sell your religion.

My dad passed away a couple weeks ago, and today we had the memorial. It was a small intimate service, very good. But that's only context.

A few minutes ago a couple of missionaries came to my door, and they were rather pleasant. No big deal, I'm usually cordial when missionaries come to my house, I try to be nice but also let them know that I am not interested in changing my religious affiliation. Today, being what it was, I figured I'd let them know that we had my dad's memorial earlier and that they would understand that maybe this wasn't the best time to try and offer their conversion offer. Good taste would seem to suggest that, maybe, just maybe, letting someone alone in such a circumstance might be regarded as general good manners.

Nope.

Apparently them hearing about my father's passing lit a little fire in their eyes, as they latched on to that as their gateway to try and hook me. That is to say, it seemed like perhaps they saw an opportunity to try and take advantage of someone in their vulnerability and grief. In the end I continued to have a cordial conversation, but as usual, respectfully told them that I wasn't interested in changing my religious affiliation.

But it just seemed like maybe the right time to remind us all: Don't use someone's loss as a means of trying to sell your religion. Taking advantage of someone's vulnerability or emotional state to try and get them over to your religion is flagrantly disrespectful.

It's not that I'm angry--honestly I'm not. It's just that it compelled me to think about this. I've intentionally avoided saying what group these missionaries were from, because fundamentally that isn't important. What's important is the fact that it's not okay to try and manipulate, take advantage of, or use people's vulnerabilities and grief to sell anything. And that's a lesson that I think is worth being reminded of regardless of religion or, as the case may be, lack thereof.

/rant

-CryptoLutheran

 

[jacks]

Sorry to hear about your father. Yes, I agree it was tactless of them to try and capitalize on your grief. I've noticed it is also very common at funeral services for the minister to try and evangelize a bit. Seems a little heavy handed at times.

 

[FireDragon76]

I lost my uncle earlier today, I found out while I was at church having a good time at a dinner we had. He died very quickly. He was terminally ill but his death came as a surprise.

According to the Vatican's statement on proselytism, attempting to take advantage of somebody's grief to convert them to your religion is proselytism and is unethical, so they are in agreement with you.

 

[Not David]

I agree, that's mess up.

 

[Danielwright2311]

The heck with the Mormons,

I am so sorry to hear about your dads death.

I am praying for you.

 

[FireDragon76]

The heck with the Mormons,

I am so sorry to hear about your dads death.

I am praying for you.

VC is a real saint, that's all I can say.


I can't deal with door to door proselytizers. And most I encounter aren't Mormon, but Baptist or Pentecostal "OK, you go to church... but that's not the same as really knowing Jesus". It's like dude, I know Jesus, I have dinner with him practically every week!

 

[archer75]

Wasn't exactly sure where to post this, but thought maybe some place like this might be most appropriate (mods feel free to move it or correct me if I'm wrong).

So here's the thing--don't use someone's loss as a means of trying to sell your religion.

My dad passed away a couple weeks ago, and today we had the memorial. It was a small intimate service, very good. But that's only context.

A few minutes ago a couple of missionaries came to my door, and they were rather pleasant. No big deal, I'm usually cordial when missionaries come to my house, I try to be nice but also let them know that I am not interested in changing my religious affiliation. Today, being what it was, I figured I'd let them know that we had my dad's memorial earlier and that they would understand that maybe this wasn't the best time to try and offer their conversion offer. Good taste would seem to suggest that, maybe, just maybe, letting someone alone in such a circumstance might be regarded as general good manners.

Nope.

Apparently them hearing about my father's passing lit a little fire in their eyes, as they latched on to that as their gateway to try and hook me. That is to say, it seemed like perhaps they saw an opportunity to try and take advantage of someone in their vulnerability and grief. In the end I continued to have a cordial conversation, but as usual, respectfully told them that I wasn't interested in changing my religious affiliation.

But it just seemed like maybe the right time to remind us all: Don't use someone's loss as a means of trying to sell your religion. Taking advantage of someone's vulnerability or emotional state to try and get them over to your religion is flagrantly disrespectful.

It's not that I'm angry--honestly I'm not. It's just that it compelled me to think about this. I've intentionally avoided saying what group these missionaries were from, because fundamentally that isn't important. What's important is the fact that it's not okay to try and manipulate, take advantage of, or use people's vulnerabilities and grief to sell anything. And that's a lesson that I think is worth being reminded of regardless of religion or, as the case may be, lack thereof.

/rant

-CryptoLutheran

I'm sorry for your loss.

And I agree with the sense of your post.

 

[usexpat97]

I probably would have done the same thing the missionaries did (unless I was a mormon missionary, of course).

It's not so much taking advantage of a vulnerable emotional state. It's believing that your thoughts are fixated on life and death, eternity--what really matters. It should never take a death in the family for that--because after all, eternity really is what really matters--but that's how we are. All too often we try to scatter seed on the rocky ground, and the weeds of this life choke it. We're looking for people in the right frame of mind to share with (and I don't mean right frame of mind FOR US--I mean right right).

At least if I had done it, manipulation is not my intent.

 

[FireDragon76]

I probably would have done the same thing the missionaries did (unless I was a mormon missionary, of course).

It's not so much taking advantage of a vulnerable emotional state. It's believing that your thoughts are fixated on life and death, eternity--what really matters. It should never take a death in the family for that--because after all, eternity really is what really matters--but that's how we are. All too often we try to scatter seed on the rocky ground, and the weeds of this life choke it. We're looking for people in the right frame of mind to share with (and I don't mean right frame of mind FOR US--I mean right right).

At least if I had done it, manipulation is not my intent.

You need to create space for that conversation to be possible, naturally, not force it. Let God do the converting.

Since becoming Lutheran I have actually shared things about my religion with people, and its so much easier when you don't have to convince or sell it to people.

 

[Jonaitis]

Wasn't exactly sure where to post this, but thought maybe some place like this might be most appropriate (mods feel free to move it or correct me if I'm wrong).

So here's the thing--don't use someone's loss as a means of trying to sell your religion.

My dad passed away a couple weeks ago, and today we had the memorial. It was a small intimate service, very good. But that's only context.

A few minutes ago a couple of missionaries came to my door, and they were rather pleasant. No big deal, I'm usually cordial when missionaries come to my house, I try to be nice but also let them know that I am not interested in changing my religious affiliation. Today, being what it was, I figured I'd let them know that we had my dad's memorial earlier and that they would understand that maybe this wasn't the best time to try and offer their conversion offer. Good taste would seem to suggest that, maybe, just maybe, letting someone alone in such a circumstance might be regarded as general good manners.

Nope.

Apparently them hearing about my father's passing lit a little fire in their eyes, as they latched on to that as their gateway to try and hook me. That is to say, it seemed like perhaps they saw an opportunity to try and take advantage of someone in their vulnerability and grief. In the end I continued to have a cordial conversation, but as usual, respectfully told them that I wasn't interested in changing my religious affiliation.

But it just seemed like maybe the right time to remind us all: Don't use someone's loss as a means of trying to sell your religion. Taking advantage of someone's vulnerability or emotional state to try and get them over to your religion is flagrantly disrespectful.

It's not that I'm angry--honestly I'm not. It's just that it compelled me to think about this. I've intentionally avoided saying what group these missionaries were from, because fundamentally that isn't important. What's important is the fact that it's not okay to try and manipulate, take advantage of, or use people's vulnerabilities and grief to sell anything. And that's a lesson that I think is worth being reminded of regardless of religion or, as the case may be, lack thereof.

/rant

-CryptoLutheran

Wow.

We should witness to people, while we are comforting and encouraging them through their loss. You call that taking advantage of someone's grief and selling religion? I don't know what sort of missionaries they were, but that didn't seem to be the point.

I'm sorry, I don't like or agree with this post.

 

[FireDragon76]

Part of the issue is that a death in the family is almost never the right time, even with the best of intentions. People are relying upon what resources they have, and when you come along and potentially criticize that, it's personally threatening in an existential way. And it's not realistic to expect that you're going to take responsibility for another person's soul like that. So it's typically a very bad idea to talk about how your religion is better than whatever beliefs they have, at that time.

 

[FireDragon76]

Wow.

We should witness to people, while we are comforting and encouraging them through their loss. You call that taking advantage of someone's grief and selling religion? I don't know what sort of missionaries they were, but that didn't seem to be the point.

I'm sorry, I don't like or agree with this post.

OK, say it's a non-religious family and the father died, what "good news" are you going to give them in the midst of their grief? Daddy is in hell, but the good news is that you don't have to go? How is that really good news? All that's happened is you've created a major wound where you could have simply been there as a sympathetic listener to somebody else's pain.

As Dietrich Bonhoeffer said, true Christianity is to share in another's pain.

 

[ViaCrucis]

I'm sorry, I don't like or agree with this post.

That's fine. Pax Christi.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[SkyWriting]

Wasn't exactly sure where to post this, but thought maybe some place like this might be most appropriate (mods feel free to move it or correct me if I'm wrong).

So here's the thing--don't use someone's loss as a means of trying to sell your religion.

My dad passed away a couple weeks ago, and today we had the memorial. It was a small intimate service, very good. But that's only context.

A few minutes ago a couple of missionaries came to my door, and they were rather pleasant. No big deal, I'm usually cordial when missionaries come to my house, I try to be nice but also let them know that I am not interested in changing my religious affiliation. Today, being what it was, I figured I'd let them know that we had my dad's memorial earlier and that they would understand that maybe this wasn't the best time to try and offer their conversion offer. Good taste would seem to suggest that, maybe, just maybe, letting someone alone in such a circumstance might be regarded as general good manners.

Nope.

Apparently them hearing about my father's passing lit a little fire in their eyes, as they latched on to that as their gateway to try and hook me. That is to say, it seemed like perhaps they saw an opportunity to try and take advantage of someone in their vulnerability and grief. In the end I continued to have a cordial conversation, but as usual, respectfully told them that I wasn't interested in changing my religious affiliation.

But it just seemed like maybe the right time to remind us all: Don't use someone's loss as a means of trying to sell your religion. Taking advantage of someone's vulnerability or emotional state to try and get them over to your religion is flagrantly disrespectful.

It's not that I'm angry--honestly I'm not. It's just that it compelled me to think about this. I've intentionally avoided saying what group these missionaries were from, because fundamentally that isn't important. What's important is the fact that it's not okay to try and manipulate, take advantage of, or use people's vulnerabilities and grief to sell anything. And that's a lesson that I think is worth being reminded of regardless of religion or, as the case may be, lack thereof.

/rant

-CryptoLutheran

We had this happen at a funeral. Throwing tomatoes would have been
possible becasue the 30 minute sermon was not scheduled and other gatherings were scheduled.

 

[Jonaitis]

OK, say it's a non-religious family and the father died, what "good news" are you going to give them in the midst of their grief? Daddy is in hell, but the good news is that you don't have to go? How is that really good news? All that's happened is you've created a major wound where you could have simply been there as a sympathetic listener to somebody else's pain.

As Dietrich Bonhoeffer said, true Christianity is to share in another's pain.

Please re-read my post. I did not say to shove the good news down their throats. We should with gentleness, kindness, consolation and encouragement bring them to the gospel through the loss. It is an opportunity that I think should be taken advantage of.

I believe there is something seriously wrong with the Christianity among many folks here on CF.

 

[Sketcher]

We should witness to people, while we are comforting and encouraging them through their loss.

It seems like the missionaries in this example didn't do any comforting. It seems like rather than offering comfort when informed of the death, they went for the jugular.

What I would have been inclined to do had I been in their position* was offer condolences, and ask him permission to pray for him for comfort. Then let any conversation take its course, and provide contact information for my church.


* Assuming I believed that Lutherans needed to be "saved" into my own church tradition, which I don't, and I actually consider that a red flag.

 

[FireDragon76]

Please re-read my post. I did not say to shove the good news down their throats. We should with gentleness, kindness, consolation and encouragement bring them to the gospel through the loss. It is an opportunity that I think should be taken advantage of.

I believe there is something seriously wrong with the Christianity among many folks here on CF.

I've known VC a long time and he's someone of the highest ethical integrity I have known, a much better Christian than me, honestly. I don't see anything wrong with his religion.

VC is one of the reasons I'm Lutheran today, I believe. Just being there as a patient voice of the Gospel in the midst of a great deal of confusion.

 

[Jonaitis]

* Assuming I believed that Lutherans needed to be "saved" into my own church tradition, which I don't, and I actually consider that a red flag.

Where did I even say that? I know many Lutheran brothers and sisters in the faith. I see a red flag when someone bears false witness against another.

 

[Sketcher]

Where did I even say that? I know many Lutheran brothers and sisters in the faith. I see a red flag when someone bears false witness against another.

You didn't. These missionaries did.

 

[ml5363]

Sorry to hear about your father. Yes, I agree it was tactless of them to try and capitalize on your grief. I've noticed it is also very common at funeral services for the minister to try and evangelize a bit. Seems a little heavy handed at times.

Minister s tend to witness at funerals because it is a time when a family is together and many may.not attend church or have heard the gospel..

Also many do not think about death, think, it is far off period, way down the road, but in reality can happen at any moment

.yes it was in bad taste when you told them of your loss and no interest they should have been on their way..