Don't Get It

[trustgod]

Correct me if I'm off base but it sounds to me that the issue isn't the whole personal relationship with God...it's the enemy. A relationship with God is based on a reciprocal flow of love and blessings. The enemy, however, wants nothing more than to take your blessings. And he knows that by suppressing your faith, he has taken your blessings.

I've never heard a relationship with God described as the reciprocation of blessings. How can I possibly bless God?

It seems we both agree that the bible is not difficult to understand. Living it is the key. If you also agree that the issue may indeed be with the enemy, then you need to remain steadfast in your convictions, your love for Jesus and the truth of His Word. To give your entire life and not certain aspects.

To live the Bible first assumes you internalize what it is saying. Then you make the effort to live it. That's my understanding at least. Not trying to split hairs here though.

Problem is, I don't have any convictions, at least when it comes to Jesus, God, or the Bible. That requires "getting it" first, which I haven't done yet.

The Kingdom of God is founded on revelations, truths, acceptance, openness and sincerity. Alternatively, there is the kingdom of evil that is no less absolute in its falseness and its betrayal. The question is whether or not you are equally as steadfast to insure that the issues of Christian living and Christian duty are clearly discerned.

To truly take a stand and LIVE your beliefs, you cannot conform to both the truths of God and to wavering principles. A Christian life is a transformed life, not a conformed life.

True, but you're still assuming I'm living a Christian life, which I don't think I am, as measured by most yardsticks. I'm not purposely living a non-Christian life, either. I'm living, and seeking, and still not getting it.

 

[Revived]

For the record bro, my intention isn't to belittle you in any way (I hope it hasn't been construed in that fashion) but I do feel you need(ed) a bit of tough love.

What I haven't mentioned thus far is that, early in my walk, I embodied a lot of the same feelings you've articulated. Having said that, the best advice I can give you at this point is to impart the most unyielding reality I faced throughout this phase...which was that God does not and will not bless "poor me" and defeatist attitudes.

I had to dig deep and make a concerted effort to examine every aspect of my life to that point. With a steadfast belief that your past is your past and should only be used as a compass pointing forward, I began by recollecting every big decision I had made and the outcome of those decisions with no regard to how they were impacted (by my childhood, parenting, peer pressure, whatever). It's done and over with. Forget it.

The irony was that, when I put an end to this inner facade and allowed genuine honesty with myself, the simple fact was that I had been overwhelmingly indecisive throughout my life. I had become adept at somehow convincing myself, as well as others around me, that my decisions and actions were carefully planned, meticulously researched, based on past experiences. That I was organized, thorough, confident and trustworthy...it was all BS. I had walked through life with minimal responsibility and even less accountability. Morally, I wasn't mean-spirited in any way and I felt genuine remorse as a result of decisions gone awry but at the end of each day, I was an absolute fraud that lied on a daily basis and meandered through life on the fence with no solid convictions or foundation.

Feeling a tad crushed and slightly lost, I gathered myself and found the wherewithal and the strength to make just one decision at that point -- that my days on the fence were over. I chose Christ and even though I had many bouts in the beginning with disbelief, backsliding, the whole deal -- I persevered by breaking it down to this simple fact. I WILL NOT go back to that life. Period. I had to repeat this to myself numerous times along the way (remember, repetition created persuasion) but when I reached the point in which I could say it and live it with absolute conviction, I began to see the small victories that had somehow gone unnoticed. In retrospect, God knew exactly how to handle it. I was the greyhound and he dangled the treat just far enough ahead. I had sprinted out of the gate and by the time I looked back, I was amazed at how far I had come. The best part? I'm still on the track taking victory laps.

So from my perspective, you can either sprint or meander...only you can make that call.

Prayerfully,
Derrick

 

[Revived]

I've never heard a relationship with God described as the reciprocation of blessings. How can I possibly bless God?

What do you hear almost invariably when someone sneezes? God, Bless You.


In all seriousness, I'd say this short article sums it up quite nicely...

You Can Bless God By Enjoying Him | revelife


Prayerfully,
Derrick

 

[trustgod]

For the record bro, my intention isn't to belittle you in any way (I hope it hasn't been construed in that fashion) but I do feel you need(ed) a bit of tough love.

What I haven't mentioned thus far is that, early in my walk, I embodied a lot of the same feelings you've articulated. Having said that, the best advice I can give you at this point is to impart the most unyielding reality I faced throughout this phase...which was that God does not and will not bless "poor me" and defeatist attitudes.

I had to dig deep and make a concerted effort to examine every aspect of my life to that point. With a steadfast belief that your past is your past and should only be used as a compass pointing forward, I began by recollecting every big decision I had made and the outcome of those decisions with no regard to how they were impacted (by my childhood, parenting, peer pressure, whatever). It's done and over with. Forget it.

The irony was that, when I put an end to this inner facade and allowed genuine honesty with myself, the simple fact was that I had been overwhelmingly indecisive throughout my life. I had become adept at somehow convincing myself, as well as others around me, that my decisions and actions were carefully planned, meticulously researched, based on past experiences. That I was organized, thorough, confident and trustworthy...it was all BS. I had walked through life with minimal responsibility and even less accountability. Morally, I wasn't mean-spirited in any way and I felt genuine remorse as a result of decisions gone awry but at the end of each day, I was an absolute fraud that lied on a daily basis and meandered through life on the fence with no solid convictions or foundation.

Feeling a tad crushed and slightly lost, I gathered myself and found the wherewithal and the strength to make just one decision at that point -- that my days on the fence were over. I chose Christ and even though I had many bouts in the beginning with disbelief, backsliding, the whole deal -- I persevered by breaking it down to this simple fact. I WILL NOT go back to that life. Period. I had to repeat this to myself numerous times along the way (remember, repetition created persuasion) but when I reached the point in which I could say it and live it with absolute conviction, I began to see the small victories that had somehow gone unnoticed. In retrospect, God knew exactly how to handle it. I was the greyhound and he dangled the treat just far enough ahead. I had sprinted out of the gate and by the time I looked back, I was amazed at how far I had come. The best part? I'm still on the track taking victory laps.

So from my perspective, you can either sprint or meander...only you can make that call.

Prayerfully,
Derrick

Here's a question for you. One that pretty much sums up the whole gist of what where I'm at right now. I am one who relies overwhelmingly on data, facts and concrete evidence for just about every big decision, and I mean everything. I researched flat-screen TV's for six months before buying one. I researched MP3 players for a couple months. I study cereal boxes before purchasing. I've "researched" God for over 8 years. Every decision I make is not made before I have all the facts in hand. Note, this doesn't apply to simple pleasures, like which bag of cookies to raid, but I think you get the gist of how I make decisions.

So, with that in mind, how does one who relies overwhelmingly on data, facts and concrete evidence for just about every big decision reconcile the gap between fact and that which is unseen (and thus, unproven)? Do you see my dilemma? Do you see how I can stand on the sidelines and see millions of people give their life to God and yet not understand how they can make that decision without the benefit of full knowledge of what that decision means and where it will lead them? Oh, you'll say the Bible is truth, and that truth leads to eternal life. But I ask, how do you *really* (and I mean really) know? You don't. You're making a calculated decision, but a decision not 100% based on full knowledge.

That gap, the deficit between what the Bible says, which is unproven, and my need for full knowledge, is why I am still not "in the game," so to speak. I am a spectator, waiting for that one last piece of information to drop which will either confirm or deny the whole Christian thing. Believing something on faith isn't in my DNA. It's just not in my nature to read a book and then say "Wow -- this sounds good. I think I'll buy into it." I am a huge skeptic of everything, so unless Christianity can offer more evidence than what currently exists, I imagine I will remain in the "not getting it crowd." I don't see it as my fault, either. If God made me this way, as Christians posit, then God would surely have a way for people of my type to "get it."

Does this clarify where I stand better?

 

[Revived]

Does this clarify where I stand better?

Absolutely! I can say that with genuine empathy because I've had similar tendencies as well regarding indecisiveness. To be more specific, one of the prevailing thoughts that prevented my leap from spectator to participant was the following questions: 'How can a good, loving God exist with all the evil in the world? If God is real then He should stop all this evil because are we not taught that He's all-powerful?'

The answer I needed came to me in the lyrics of a song back in the summer of '08. There's a spoken part of the song that says this: What exactly is evil? It's anything that's against God. It's anything morally bad or wrong. It's murder, rape, stealing, lying, cheating. If we want God to stop evil, however, do we want Him to stop all evil or just certain evils? If He stops us from doing evil things, what about lying, or what about our evil thoughts? Honestly, where do you stop? The murder level, the lying level or the thinking level? If we want Him to stop evil, we gotta be consistent; we can't just pick and choose. That means you and I would be eliminated right? If that's true, then we all should be eliminated! Personally, I thank God that he sent Jesus to save us from our sin. Christ died for all evilness.'

You may find this completely irrelevant but, for me, seeing a completely different perspective on evilness was a true watershed moment. These lyrics, buried in a fairly obscure song, answered a fundamental question that not only had surfaced numerous times in my mind, it had also become a cornerstone of my disbelief.

Shortly thereafter, I had a brief conversation with a friend of mine who was well aware of my struggles with faith and also the testimony I posted earlier in this same thread. To quickly preface, several years back this same friend asked if I had ever seen the arrow in the FedEx logo and joked that from that point forward, I'll never see the logo without focusing on the arrow. He was right!

So as I began to speak of this new revelation regarding evilness, he could sense a wavering uncertainty. There was still something missing within me. He then posed two simple questions:

"Remember the FedEx logo?"

ME: "I hate you for that" lol/lol

"Well, I have another question. Where did it start and where did it begin?"

ME: "Where did what start and what begin?"

"Everything. Where did everything begin and where does everything end? Think about it and get back to me."

I knew where he was going with this because I'd often thought of this question. A question in which no one can answer definitively. Once again however, hearing it from a different perspective, under different circumstances and with a slightly different mindset, this inner facade of disbelief had become far less formidable. Verses such as "Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen" were far more discernible and Christianity became a well lit doorway in a room filled with darkness.

Proverbs 13:12 states, "Hope deferred makes the heart sick, but desire fulfilled is a tree of life." When we reject God's hope for our lives (which is often manifested through conformity, pride, materialism, indifference...) we sense that our fulfillment (our heart) has become lost and perhaps forgotten (sick). Desire fulfilled is a way of saying God's will is our hearts desire. It will bloom and give fruit to fill everything with life and love.

Despite years of irresponsibility, indecision, an utter lack of accountability throughout, a battle with alcoholism, the loss of a well-paying job and a painstaking divorce with kids involved tossed in for good measure, I have managed to find my way back. I've learned to give and love with no expectations or conditions. I've realized the absolute importance of replacing blame, guilt, shame; the entire lamenting routine with an invariable responsibility. A responsibility not only to my children and to my family but most importantly, a responsibility to leading a life centered on Christ. When I finally reached this point, I began to understand and delineate between simply attending church...listening to a Christian CD here and there, quoting scripture and telling people I'm a Christian. These are all admirable traits but until I consistently allowed new perspectives and a renewing of my mind, I was only "attending" church and not absorbing the Word, "listening" to Christian music and not hearing it..."quoting" scripture and "telling people" I'm a Christian instead of living it. As a result of this transformation, my entire existence became flooded with belief, purpose, confidence and joy. Endeavors that were once imposing...sobriety, continuing my education, furthering my career, seeking new relationships, etc...were handled with ease. The affects have been and continue to be tangible in every aspect of my life.

In retrospect, I am thankful to God for closing these doors in my life. I'm thankful because I believe it was through grace and timing that He placed certain individuals and circumstances in my life that have led me into and through this new door filled with blessings and peace. The conformity, pride, materialism and indifference have been replaced with repentance, acceptance, openness, forgiveness and sincerity.

When I remained centered on God's will and His timing, I begin to think differently. I begin to use the discernment and the wisdom that He graciously provided and ingrained within me so that I could live my life with clarity and hope...to discern between what reveals my weaknesses and what reveals my strengths...who creates loss and who creates gain...which door to choose when one becomes closed. Not unlike the arrow in the logo, my focus has been forever changed.

One person, one post, one song or one anecdote is unlikely to change pervasive indecision but the mere fact that you're open to discuss the subject should be acknowledged and embraced. In all sincerity, my hope is that the answers to your questions bring you happiness and fulfillment and in some way, my testimony and the testimony of others will eventually find their way into your heart and allow you to embody this incomparable feeling of grace and peace.

Prayerfully,
Derrick

 

[trustgod]

Prayerfully,
Derrick

Thanks for your post and continued effort to help me see the light. My wiring must be seriously defective, because while that was an interesting post and story, it didn't help me get any closer on my quest for understanding.

I am pretty certain it is my wiring, and not your efforts (how many other people are wired this way, I wonder?). I think I just have a higher burden of proof than most people here, so I will be forever stymied in my effort to "get it." With that, and not wanting to create animosity here, I won't press this anymore. I'm resigned to never getting it, I'm afraid. So, thanks for all who have helped. I do appreciate it.

 

[Revived]

Thanks for your post and continued effort to help me see the light. My wiring must be seriously defective, because while that was an interesting post and story, it didn't help me get any closer on my quest for understanding.

I am pretty certain it is my wiring, and not your efforts (how many other people are wired this way, I wonder?). I think I just have a higher burden of proof than most people here, so I will be forever stymied in my effort to "get it." With that, and not wanting to create animosity here, I won't press this anymore. I'm resigned to never getting it, I'm afraid. So, thanks for all who have helped. I do appreciate it.

You're welcome. Best of luck..

 

[MLEN]

Hi trustgod,

"Here's a question for you. One that pretty much sums up the whole gist of what where I'm at right now. I am one who relies overwhelmingly on data, facts and concrete evidence for just about every big decision, and I mean everything. I researched flat-screen TV's for six months before buying one. I researched MP3 players for a couple months. I study cereal boxes before purchasing. I've "researched" God for over 8 years. Every decision I make is not made before I have all the facts in hand. Note, this doesn't apply to simple pleasures, like which bag of cookies to raid, but I think you get the gist of how I make decisions."

By your above statement, it's clear to tell that you are extremely analytical. If you haven't yet (or don't do so on a regular basis), I advise that one thing you can do to develop a closer, personal view of God is to spend some time out in nature. By this I mean, literally - outside in nature observing and studying birds, worms, butterflies, lilies, the ocean, etc. - you name it, the sky's the limit. This may seem silly at first, but God tells us over and over in many parts of the Bible how nature reflects him, his creative powers and his care for even the smallest of his creations. It then goes on to compare us to them (the animals, plants, etc.) and tells us that if he cares for them, he certainly cares for us humans who were originally created in his own image and likeness.

I have learned many precious lessons about God and his love for me that have made me "see" God spiritually and has lead me into such a real relationship with him.

I hope this makes sense to you and I pray that you will try it as you seek to build a relationship with the God in whom you believe.

 

[trustgod]

Hi trustgod,

By your above statement, it's clear to tell that you are extremely analytical. If you haven't yet (or don't do so on a regular basis), I advise that one thing you can do to develop a closer, personal view of God is to spend some time out in nature. By this I mean, literally - outside in nature observing and studying birds, worms, butterflies, lilies, the ocean, etc. - you name it, the sky's the limit. This may seem silly at first, but God tells us over and over in many parts of the Bible how nature reflects him, his creative powers and his care for even the smallest of his creations.

I actually spend a lot of time outdoors, in various activities. Walking, hiking, camping, etc. And I can see the work of God. BUT, that doesn't help me one iota in understanding what a personal relationship with God is like, or anything about faith. It just confirms what I kind of already know -- that God exists. That's not the issue.

It then goes on to compare us to them (the animals, plants, etc.) and tells us that if he cares for them, he certainly cares for us humans who were originally created in his own image and likeness.

What confirms this?

I have learned many precious lessons about God and his love for me that have made me "see" God spiritually and has lead me into such a real relationship with him.

How? That's the $64,000 question I want answered. How does one go from believing God exists, to having faith in him and a relationship with him? Believing he exists and then having faith in him are two extremely different things in my opinion, but it seems so many here say they're one and the same. I respectfully disagree.

 

[MLEN]

Hi trustgod,

After I wrote my last post, I realize that I have not asked if you already knew that that the Bible states that no one can come to the Father God accept through Jesus Christ his son? And that we do this by confessing that we have sins and that we believe/accept that Jesus died on the cross for our sins in order that we may have eternal life.

Have you ever said this prayer of confession and acceptance? For this is the very first and most important step in having a relationship with God.

 

[MLEN]

"It then goes on to compare us to them (the animals, plants, etc.) and tells us that if he cares for them, he certainly cares for us humans who were originally created in his own image and likeness."

Here are some scriptures from the Bible regarding my above statement:

"Consider the ravens: for they neither sow nor reap; which neither have storehouse nor barn; and God feeds them: how much more are you better than the fowls?" (Luke 12:24). This is repeated in Matthew 6:26.

"Consider the lilies how they grow: they toil not, they spin not; and yet I say unto you, that [King] Solomon in all his glory was not arrayed like one of these. If then God so clothe the grass...how much more will he clothe you..." (Luke 12:27 & 28)

Verses 29-31 go on to tell us that therefore we should not worry about anything, because God knows what we need and will provide such for us.

Also, "Are not two sparrows sold for a farthing? And one of them shall not fall on the ground without your Father. But the very hairs of your head are all numbered. Fear ye not therefore, you are of more value [to God] than many sparrows" (Matthew 10:29-31).

"He gives to the beast his food, and to the young ravens which cry." (Psalm 147:9) "The Lord taketh pleasure in them that fear him, in those that hope in his mercy." (Psalm 147:11)

"But my God shall supply all your needs according to his riches in glory by Christ Jesus" (Philippians 4:19)

On another note, you asked:

"How? That's the $64,000 question I want answered. How does one go from believing God exists, to having faith in him and a relationship with him?"

Please refer to my above comment regarding accepting that Jesus Christ died to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. After accepting this, we must ask Jesus to come into our lives and hearts in order that we may fully live for him. Once again, this is a necessary step to receiving that life changing relationship with God.

 

[nhisname]

I guess you could label me as a "seeker" as I've spent the past several years trying to figure out God/religion/faith/Christianity. I've read a lot of apologetics books in my quest to understand all this. Since, by nature, I'm a very analytical person, facts speak to me much more than emotions and feelings, which has made it extremely difficult for me to come to a point where I can truly understand this whole faith thing.

Having said that, I think I've grasped the concept of God as the creator of the universe and life. There are actually many facts in our world that support the concept of God as the creator of life. My analytical nature is, for the most part, satisfied by these facts so I'm not a seeker from that perspective. The Deist sees God as a hands-off creator who, once He created the universe and life, really has nothing more to do with us. That would sum up my understanding of God right now.

However, when it comes to understanding the concept of God as a "personal God," who loves me, cares for me, and desires to have a relationship with me, I just don't get it. It doesn't make sense to me. There seems to be a huge wall that is preventing me from going any further into the "personal" realm -- that is, understanding God as a personal God.

Going to church is downright depressing. Walking into church with 1,000 people who do "get it" makes me feel inferior (I know many in church don't really get it, many are afraid to admit they don't get it), defective, and just plain old dumb. What do they know that I don't? is what I'm thinking. How could so many people be singing along with "Jesus is my boyfriend" as if He was physically present and listening, when I don't experience that. I always leave church more skeptical than I do when I enter.

I guess experiencing the emotional, personal side of God is either something I'm not wired to understand. I'm not much of a touchy-feely person, so when it comes to having to base a relationship with someone I can't see entirely on emotions and love, that just doesn't compute for me. Praying is a good example. I feel pretty strange praying, because to me it just feels like I'm talking to myself, which is really weird (to me) since it's directed toward someone else.

How does one, who might be called emotionally bankrupt, ever connect to a person (God) who is based purely on emotions (e.g., love)? I can convince myself until the cows come home that there is a creator, but trying to have a relationship with an invisible being is just too far out there for me to ever understand.

You won't know God till he convicts your spirit. When he does that, it will knock you to your knees asking for forgiveness of sin. Only then will you get it.

 

[trustgod]

Hi trustgod,

After I wrote my last post, I realize that I have not asked if you already knew that that the Bible states that no one can come to the Father God accept through Jesus Christ his son? And that we do this by confessing that we have sins and that we believe/accept that Jesus died on the cross for our sins in order that we may have eternal life.

Have you ever said this prayer of confession and acceptance? For this is the very first and most important step in having a relationship with God.

Yes, more than once. I've prayed many times for God to reveal himself to me, and I've prayed many times to get over my doubt and to be given faith ih God. You probably can't convince me that I wasn't just talking to myself at this point.

 

[trustgod]

You won't know God till he convicts your spirit. When he does that, it will knock you to your knees asking for forgiveness of sin. Only then will you get it.

So it's just a waiting game? Nothing I can do will expedite it? Makes it sound like I should just sit back in my recliner, open a beer, and wait for him to come knocking at the door. Is that really all there is to it?

 

[trustgod]

"It then goes on to compare us to them (the animals, plants, etc.) and tells us that if he cares for them, he certainly cares for us humans who were originally created in his own image and likeness."

Here are some scriptures from the Bible regarding my above statement:

"Consider the ravens: for they neither sow nor reap; which neither have storehouse nor barn; and God feeds them: how much more are you better than the fowls?" (Luke 12:24). This is repeated in Matthew 6:26.

"Consider the lilies how they grow: they toil not, they spin not; and yet I say unto you, that [King] Solomon in all his glory was not arrayed like one of these. If then God so clothe the grass...how much more will he clothe you..." (Luke 12:27 & 28)

Verses 29-31 go on to tell us that therefore we should not worry about anything, because God knows what we need and will provide such for us.

Also, "Are not two sparrows sold for a farthing? And one of them shall not fall on the ground without your Father. But the very hairs of your head are all numbered. Fear ye not therefore, you are of more value [to God] than many sparrows" (Matthew 10:29-31).

"He gives to the beast his food, and to the young ravens which cry." (Psalm 147:9) "The Lord taketh pleasure in them that fear him, in those that hope in his mercy." (Psalm 147:11)

"But my God shall supply all your needs according to his riches in glory by Christ Jesus" (Philippians 4:19)

No offense, but using the Bible to prove God is like using circular logic to someone who is struggling with the God of the Bible. Just throwing that out there. My eyes just glaze over when I see verses thrown out like that.

On another note, you asked:

"How? That's the $64,000 question I want answered. How does one go from believing God exists, to having faith in him and a relationship with him?"

Please refer to my above comment regarding accepting that Jesus Christ died to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. After accepting this, we must ask Jesus to come into our lives and hearts in order that we may fully live for him. Once again, this is a necessary step to receiving that life changing relationship with God.

By accept what specifically do you mean, the "sinners prayer" that you mentioned earlier? Having done that, and still no progress, maybe I didn't make the cut.

 

[Revived]

Give this a shot...

YouTube - Crowns Camp Day One
YouTube - Crowns Camp day 2
YouTube - Crowns Camp day 3
YouTube - Crowns Camp Day 4
YouTube - Crowns Camp Day 5
YouTube - Crowns' Camp Day 6

 

[trustgod]

Give this a shot...

Thanks. I watched the first two. He's a Christian talking Christians, people who have already accepted God and have a relationship with him. Got any videos aimed at people who haven't yet?

 

[MLEN]

"No offense, but using the Bible to prove God is like using circular logic to someone who is struggling with the God of the Bible."

You asked me earlier to show what confirms that God cares for us more than the plants and animals, thus I gave some Bible scriptures that confirm it. I did this based on the thought that you not only believed in God, but that you also believe what he says in the Bible is true. Therefore, I was not using the Bible to prove God (because you had already said you believe in him).

However, (and please correct me if I am wrong) it appears that you do not necessarily believe that what is written in the Bible is God's own true words?

On another note:

"I've prayed many times for God to reveal himself to me, and I've prayed many times to get over my doubt and to be given faith in God."

"By accept what specifically do you mean, the "sinners prayer" that you mentioned earlier? Having done that, and still no progress, maybe I didn't make the cut."

Actually, I never called it the "sinners prayer", and intentionally so, as this is usually a termed used by people who understand it to be such and I did not know if you would understand the term.

Nevertheless, this is what I mean: In the Bible, we are told by Jesus himself that there is only one way to the Father and that way is via Jesus Christ. The "sinners prayer" is simply accepting that all humanity, including you and I, have sinned against God at some point in our lives. Now the penalty of sin is death, so the Bible says. And the only way to avoid that penalty is to confess that we are sinners, and then to accept that Jesus Christ died on the cross to take away our sins in order to give us eternal life (instead of death). We must also ask Jesus to dwell in us, so that we may live fully for him.

Is this the type of prayer you are talking about when you mentioned "having done that, and still no progress, maybe I didn't make the cut?"

 

[trustgod]

You asked me earlier to show what confirms that God cares for us more than the plants and animals, thus I gave some Bible scriptures that confirm it. I did this based on the thought that you not only believed in God, but that you also believe what he says in the Bible is true. Therefore, I was not using the Bible to prove God (because you had already said you believe in him).

However, (and please correct me if I am wrong) it appears that you do not necessarily believe that what is written in the Bible is God's own true words?

I believe that there is a creator of the universe and of life. Are you familiar with Deism? a Deist believes a supreme being created the universe, but doesn't think that that creator intervenes in human affairs. I'm not saying that I am a Deist, but that's the best description of my understanding of God. So, to answer your question, I am indeed struggling with the Christian God, and so am not sure of what the Bible represents.

Actually, I never called it the "sinners prayer", and intentionally so, as this is usually a termed used by people who understand it to be such and I did not know if you would understand the term.

No, you didn't. Didn't mean to imply you did. I've just heard that kind of prayer referred to as the "sinner's prayer."

Nevertheless, this is what I mean: In the Bible, we are told by Jesus himself that there is only one way to the Father and that way is via Jesus Christ. The "sinners prayer" is simply accepting that all humanity, including you and I, have sinned against God at some point in our lives. Now the penalty of sin is death, so the Bible says. And the only way to avoid that penalty is to confess that we are sinners, and then to accept that Jesus Christ died on the cross to take away our sins in order to give us eternal life (instead of death). We must also ask Jesus to dwell in us, so that we may live fully for him.

Is this the type of prayer you are talking about when you mentioned "having done that, and still no progress, maybe I didn't make the cut?"

Yes. Regadless of what you call it, I prayed for forgiveness for my sins and asked God into my life. I did that a number of years ago, and have prayed a number of times since for God to help me understand him and to come into my life. I don't know whether my prayers weren't sincere enough or what, but the fact that I'm still on this side of the fence tells me that he didn't hear me, or did hear me but chose not to answer my prayer. Eight years is a long time to wait for God to enter one's life! Or maybe he did enter my life but my need for proof drove him out? Wish I knew.

I do know I have an aversion to authority figures. Not in the sense that I disrepect all authority, but instead I have a difficult time accepting authority from superiors. Having thought about this a bit more, I believe that my distaste for authority figures might be related to not being able to get it. In our society, and especially for men, we are told to be self-sufficient, stand on our own two legs, be leaders, independant and in control of our lives. Couple that ubiquitous mindset with the Christian mindset which says that we are not self-sufficient, are not independant, and are not to stand on our own legs, and maybe you can see a where I'm coming from. How can I both be self-sufficient and in control and at the same time not be self-sufficient and in control? It's an either/or from my perspective. Does that make sense?

 

[MLEN]

"I believe that there is a creator of the universe and of life. Are you familiar with Deism? a Deist believes a supreme being created the universe, but doesn't think that that creator intervenes in human affairs. I'm not saying that I am a Deist, but that's the best description of my understanding of God. So, to answer your question, I am indeed struggling with the Christian God, and so am not sure of what the Bible represents."

Thank you for clarifying, I do understand your situation much better now.

"Yes. Regadless of what you call it, I prayed for forgiveness for my sins and asked God into my life. I did that a number of years ago, and have prayed a number of times since for God to help me understand him and to come into my life. I don't know whether my prayers weren't sincere enough or what,"

If you did sincerely say that prayer of forgiveness and ask Jesus to come into your life, then you have received the gift of eternal life and God. You must believe this by faith, not by what you may or may not `feel' (or by what kind of Christian experience you see others having). Just as you said the prayer by faith, now you must live by faith in Christ Jesus. By this I mean you need to, by faith, build that relationship with God by spending time with him via reading his Words to you (as written in the Bible). By doing this you will get to know him better. You will learn what good things he has in store for you as you obey his words spoken to you through the Bible. Daily prayer is also important. Just have a conversation with him. Thank him for the many blessings he has already given you, ask him to lead you throughout your day. Talk to him about your deepest concerns and joys.

"How can I both be self-sufficient and in control and at the same time not be self-sufficient and in control? It's an either/or from my perspective. Does that make sense?"

Yes, that does make sense because I was the type who always wanted to be in control of my life. Then I realized that I can't do everything all the time all by myself, because I was not omnipotent like God is. Now I do what I can, and leave the rest to him. It is so peaceful to know that the creator of the universe has got me covered even in areas that are out of my control. Living like this takes away a lot of worry and stress on my part, and allows God to show me just how amazing and more than capable he is in taking care of all of my needs. Do you see what I mean?