donating

[dies-l]

What I know for the Great Command is going to the world making disciples and baptize them.

Offcourse we have to love. And aloudme to tell you something I did discover. Every teach of Jesus is given trhree times:
1 We have to love. Love who? God How? with all....
2 We have to love. Love who? Our neighbor How? as ourself
3 We have to love. Love who? each other (christians) How? as Jesus did.

Can we truly love (God, our neighbor, one another) without giving of our time and resources? Also, you seem to think that the Great Commandment applies only to other believers. How do you reconcile this with the Great Commission, which obviously is directed toward non-believers. Don't you think that the Great Commission is itself an act of love?

 

[Goinheix]

Sorry for my English. Now I understand that what I was callig the great command is actually the grat commision. please go back and read commision every time I say command.

Can I love God without giving money to people of the world? Offcourse I can.
Can I love my neighborg in need without giving him money (help)? Yes I can. Tel you some story. In 1977 I was just new born. I was walking in the street at night and a man askme for litle money to pay the bus (not a begger). I was walking for the same reason, my famoly was not giving me money to go to the church. I say "sorry, dont have" Keep on walking and thinking. Then I recaled Peter when somebody beg him money. Peter say no, but what I have I give you. I run back to tel the man that God loves him and has salvation in Christ. I did not found him. The point is that the people on the world need the Gospel, giving them plenty food, good dress and a confortable house is absolutelt useless. People that more seek God is desper people, people in need. If you love them, worsen his situation until have not other option than claim God. Helping them is moving them away from God.
Can I love my brother without giving him what he needs? I dont see how that can be possible, neither James understan love without help.

 

[dies-l]

Sorry for my English. Now I understand that what I was callig the great command is actually the grat commision. please go back and read commision every time I say command.

But, let's not forget that that Great Commandment is every bit as important as the Great Commission.

Can I love God without giving money to people of the world? Offcourse I can. Can I love my neighborg in need without giving him money (help)? Yes I can.

Notice, however, that my question did not say anything about money. My question was whether you can love others without giving of your time and/or resources. If you know that there is a person who is hungry because he is not able to get food, can you honestly love that person without wanting to do whatever is in your power to provide him food? The Bible, of course, says no. (e.g., 1 John 3:16-18). And, if you know that a person needs help and you are able to help, you will want to help that person if you love them.

Yet, we live in a world where we have knowledge of profound poverty and suffering. We know that in many parts of the world, there is a deep and inescapable poverty. And, we are called to care and to be proactive about it. Does this mean that we should give every last dollar we have to the poor and every minute of our lives to serving others? I don't necessarily think so, but it is worth noting that this is EXACTLY what the early church did in Acts 2-4.

The point is that we are called to love EVERYBODY. Scripture is very clear about that. We are called to be servants of ALL. We are told that, if we have resources (e.g., money, food, etc), we should should share it with others. Nowhere in Scripture are we told that this applies only to how treat Christians. We should treat all people with love and compassion. And, if you have money or other resources, that means being willing to share them.

But, we should use discernment. For example, if a person is a drug addict, i don't give him any money. Period. We don't want to support self-destruction. But, we should constantly be looking for opportunities to meet real needs.

Tel you some story. In 1977 I was just new born. I was walking in the street at night and a man askme for litle money to pay the bus (not a begger). I was walking for the same reason, my famoly was not giving me money to go to the church. I say "sorry, dont have" Keep on walking and thinking. Then I recaled Peter when somebody beg him money. Peter say no, but what I have I give you. I run back to tel the man that God loves him and has salvation in Christ. I did not found him. The point is that the people on the world need the Gospel, giving them plenty food, good dress and a confortable house is absolutelt useless.

Yet, the Bible tells us to love one another by providing food and other needs.

People that more seek God is desper people, people in need. If you love them, worsen his situation until have not other option than claim God.

Can you support this with Scripture?

Helping them is moving them away from God.

Usually that is not true. Helping a person who is hungry by giving them food, in the name of Jesus, actually tends to draw them closer to God.

Can I love my brother without giving him what he needs? I dont see how that can be possible, neither James understan love without help.

 

[Goinheix]

But, let's not forget that that Great Commandment is every bit as important as the Great Commission.

Notice, however, that my question did not say anything about money. My question was whether you can love others without giving of your time and/or resources. If you know that there is a person who is hungry because he is not able to get food, can you honestly love that person without wanting to do whatever is in your power to provide him food? The Bible, of course, says no. (e.g., 1 John 3:16-18). And, if you know that a person needs help and you are able to help, you will want to help that person if you love them.

It really is not that important to say what is more important if the G Command or the G Commision. At the end of the day we hato love God, love the neibough, love the brother...and also have to go make disciples and baptice them.

Let me check no I John but the Gospel of John 3:16. God did love the world not by solving all problems of famine, sicknes etc. God did love the world by providing slavation in Christ. The way we have to love the world is the same, teling them the good news, not providing for theyrs needs.

I John 3:16 is the next step. How shal we love or BROTHERS. Please notice that John keep saying BROTHERS not people from the world.

As yo can see, all scriptures (christians, the Bible) is teaching what I understand. Concerning our brother christians wehave to help them; but help that brother infront of us. I John 3:17 say "if you SEE your BROTHER". Concerning the people of the world, every text that you or anybody keep showing, actualy say what I nderstand. For the world we have to obey the Commision and make them disciples NOT help them on any way.

 

[Goinheix]

Yet, we live in a world where we have knowledge of profound poverty and suffering. We know that in many parts of the world, there is a deep and inescapable poverty. And, we are called to care and to be proactive about it. Does this mean that we should give every last dollar we have to the poor and every minute of our lives to serving others? I don't necessarily think so, but it is worth noting that this is EXACTLY what the early church did in Acts 2-4.

Again. One more text that you apoint but actually is saying what I am saying. Act 2-4 is telling us that first christians did care for the needs of the other christians. And those other christians were right there, not in the oposite corner of the planet.

It is not biblical that "we are called to care and to be proactive about it" That I have been proved all along this thread. If yo can point one single verse I will be very surprised.

 

[Goinheix]

The point is that we are called to love EVERYBODY. Scripture is very clear about that. We are called to be servants of ALL. We are told that, if we have resources (e.g., money, food, etc), we should should share it with others. Nowhere in Scripture are we told that this applies only to how treat Christians. We should treat all people with love and compassion. And, if you have money or other resources, that means being willing to share them.

No. So far you and other friends in this thread have present text that for your understanding are very clear. After my explanation it were christal clear that all those text are talking obout helping only and exclusively christians. That was explained for me and nobody at all replied contradicting me. That has been proved. If you think there is at least one text in the bible that say what you say please bring it back. I will give you the right answer again. But if you dont agree you must replay to my answer.

 

[dies-l]

It really is not that important to say what is more important if the G Command or the G Commision. At the end of the day we hato love God, love the neibough, love the brother...and also have to go make disciples and baptice them.

Let me check no I John but the Gospel of John 3:16. God did love the world not by solving all problems of famine, sicknes etc. God did love the world by providing slavation in Christ. The way we have to love the world is the same, teling them the good news, not providing for theyrs needs.

I John 3:16 is the next step. How shal we love or BROTHERS. Please notice that John keep saying BROTHERS not people from the world.

As yo can see, all scriptures (christians, the Bible) is teaching what I understand. Concerning our brother christians wehave to help them; but help that brother infront of us. I John 3:17 say "if you SEE your BROTHER". Concerning the people of the world, every text that you or anybody keep showing, actualy say what I nderstand. For the world we have to obey the Commision and make them disciples NOT help them on any way.

Please provide Scriptural evidence that "brothers" or "brothers and sisters" means anything different than simply "other people". If John had meant, "If anyone has material possession, but sees another Christian in need . . . " he surely would have said that. But, he didn't. He said "brother" (the Greek work, actually referring either a brother or a sister), which implies that he was talking about any person that we have an opportunity to help. Nonetheless, your position seems to be that we should even feel compelled to share our money with other believers. So, in light of your position, the distinction that you make is moot.

This is what John actually says:

16 This is how we know what love is: Jesus Christ laid down his life for us. And we ought to lay down our lives for our brothers and sisters. 17 If anyone has material possessions and sees a brother or sister in need but has no pity on them, how can the love of God be in that person? 18 Dear children, let us not love with words or speech but with actions and in truth.

Let's think about this for a moment. Were we Christians when Jesus laid down His life for us? Did Jesus lay down His life only for those people who were already Christians at the moment of the crucifixion? Of course no. John is saying that our love for others is the same. He does not distinguish between believers and non-believers. He tells us that we are to "lay down our live". He tells us that if we have material possessions that we WILL share them with those in need, IF we have the love of Christ in us. Just as Jesus loves us while we were yet sinners, we are to love one another, and in doing so, bring some of the lost into relationship with Christ.

 

[dies-l]

No. So far you and other friends in this thread have present text that for your understanding are very clear. After my explanation it were christal clear that all those text are talking obout helping only and exclusively christians. That was explained for me and nobody at all replied contradicting me. That has been proved. If you think there is at least one text in the bible that say what you say please bring it back. I will give you the right answer again. But if you dont agree you must replay to my answer.

Please provide one passage of Scripture that even suggests that the Great Commandment applies only to other Christians. You keep asserting that, despite the great weight of Scripture to the contrary, but you have not cited a single passage of Scripture for discussion. You have also changed your position. You originally said that we are not called to give money to anyone. And, now you are saying that we are called to share only with Christians. So, which is it? Are we called to to give of our resources to help other believers or aren't we?

 

[Goinheix]

People that more seek God is desper people, people in need. If you love them, worsen his situation until have not other option than claim God.
​

Can you support this with Scripture?

Helping them is moving them away from God.
​

Usually that is not true. Helping a person who is hungry by giving them food, in the name of Jesus, actually tends to draw them closer to God.




Check out the Gospels. Who was aproaching Jesus? Beggers, poor, sick people. Only one rich man, and Jesus replied How difficult is for a rich to enter the Kingdom. Pal says that God choose the lower of the world to become christians. Proverbs is saying bthat is better to go a a funeral than to a party.

You are inteligent, honest and have an english Bible. Check it ot yourself.

 

[Goinheix]

Please provide Scriptural evidence that "brothers" or "brothers and sisters" means anything different than simply "other people". If John had meant, "If anyone has material possession, but sees another Christian in need . . . " he surely would have said that. But, he didn't. He said "brother" (the Greek work, actually referring either a brother or a sister), which implies that he was talking about any person that we have an opportunity to help. Nonetheless, your position seems to be that we should even feel compelled to share our money with other believers. So, in light of your position, the distinction that you make is moot.

This is what John actually says:

16 This is how we know what love is: Jesus Christ laid down his life for us. And we ought to lay down our lives for our brothers and sisters. 17 If anyone has material possessions and sees a brother or sister in need but has no pity on them, how can the love of God be in that person? 18 Dear children, let us not love with words or speech but with actions and in truth.

Let's think about this for a moment. Were we Christians when Jesus laid down His life for us? Did Jesus lay down His life only for those people who were already Christians at the moment of the crucifixion? Of course no. John is saying that our love for others is the same. He does not distinguish between believers and non-believers. He tells us that we are to "lay down our live". He tells us that if we have material possessions that we WILL share them with those in need, IF we have the love of Christ in us. Just as Jesus loves us while we were yet sinners, we are to love one another, and in doing so, bring some of the lost into relationship with Christ.

We have to stay with the text. If you dont want the text, sorry but you can not change it. I am supposed to demostrate that "brothers" means christians and not all humans. It is very easy: as yo say brother in greek means brother ans sister (same in spanish) and do not, repeat do not means all humans. You jst sya it: brother does not means other tahn brother ans sister.

 

[dies-l]

Again. One more text that you apoint but actually is saying what I am saying. Act 2-4 is telling us that first christians did care for the needs of the other christians. And those other christians were right there, not in the oposite corner of the planet.

I notice that your info says that you are from Uruguay. Are you going to tell me that in Uruguay, there are no physical needs to be met, or that that there are no needs to be met in all of South America and that you must look to the "opposite corner of the planet" to see a person in need?

Even if that is true, if we are following the Great Commission, we are travelling to the opposite corner of the planet. Jesus said "you will be my witnesses in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the ends of the earth." If we take these words from Jesus seriously, we will be travelling to the ends of the earth, and we will see firsthand the needs of others.

It is not biblical that "we are called to care and to be proactive about it" That I have been proved all along this thread. If yo can point one single verse I will be very surprised.

That is what you have said. But, you have not cited Scripture and you have ignored Scripture that explains very clearly our obligation to care and to be proactive. It is impossible to convince someone who simply looks at a passage of Scripture and claims that it does not say what it clearly says and refuses to provide any explanation or other Scripture to refute it.

 

[dies-l]

We have to stay with the text. If you dont want the text, sorry but you can not change it. I am supposed to demostrate that "brothers" means christians and not all humans. It is very easy: as yo say brother in greek means brother ans sister (same in spanish) and do not, repeat do not means all humans. You jst sya it: brother does not means other tahn brother ans sister.

Okay, then you would interpret "hermanos" (to use the Spanish) to refer only to biological brothers or sisters. Right? So, this is not even referring to other Christians, just our family members?

 

[dies-l]

You are inteligent, honest and have an english Bible. Check it ot yourself.

In other words, you who insist that I provide you with Scriptures to support my position and who then ignore the Scriptures that are provided, cannot produce anything to support your absurd claims that contradict both the whole of Scripture and 2000+ years of Judeo Christian tradition.

 

[Goinheix]

Please provide one passage of Scripture that even suggests that the Great Commandment applies only to other Christians. You keep asserting that, despite the great weight of Scripture to the contrary, but you have not cited a single passage of Scripture for discussion. You have also changed your position. You originally said that we are not called to give money to anyone. And, now you are saying that we are called to share only with Christians. So, which is it? Are we called to to give of our resources to help other believers or aren't we?

I repeat what I have already say before

To love God aplies not for humas, it means I will not love God bt loving hmans but loving God.

To love the neigborg is neither loving humankind bat all humans next to us.

To love one disciple to another disciple means not to love any non-disciple at all.


Is it clear that the G C is not 2 loves but 3. In John Jesus say "I will give you one more command" that is in addition to the first two. And the comand Hi is giving is in the same format; to love...who to love...and how to love.

 

[Goinheix]

In other words, you who insist that I provide you with Scriptures to support my position and who then ignore the Scriptures that are provided, cannot produce anything to support your absurd claims that contradict both the whole of Scripture and 2000+ years of Judeo Christian tradition.

Obviously I was wrong. You are not inteligent, not honest at all, and dont know how to use your Bible. I can not keep on giving you pearls that you dont apreciate.

If you really are inteligent, honest and love the Bible, give one text I lets discss it until we arrive to a agrrement. I did just give you somes and you did not replay with a different interpretation but only saying NO.

Either you look my verses in your english Bible and give me your interpretation; or you give your text and let discuss it in deep.

 

[dies-l]

To love the neigborg is neither loving humankind bat all humans next to us.

Jesus told the parable of the Good Samaritan to refute this very type of statement. We are to love all people, not just other believers, not just people "next to us", but everyone. If you disagree, then I would encourage you to read the Gospels in a translation that you are comfortable with (If you are a Spanish speaker, I would suggest the RV 1960 or NVI) and take the time to really learn the character of Jesus.

And, when you say things like

You are not inteligent, not honest at all, and dont know how to use your Bible.

you only show me how great is your need.

 

[Goinheix]

In my opinion, just my opinion, seems you have lived your life, you have build your christian life on giving, giving and giving, and now I am burning down all your entire life.

 

[dies-l]

In my opinion, just my opinion, seems you have lived your life, you have build your christian life on giving, giving and giving, and now I am burning down all your entire life.

I will pray for you, mi hermano.

 

[Goinheix]

Jesus told the parable of the Good Samaritan to refute this very type of statement. We are to love all people, not just other believers, not just people "next to us", but everyone. If you disagree, then I would encourage you to read the Gospels in a translation that you are comfortable with (If you are a Spanish speaker, I would suggest the RV 1960 or NVI) and take the time to really learn the character of Jesus.

Once again. One more text that you strongly believe that is supporting you but is saying exactly what I say.

Jesus is teaching to help the next. Who is the next? In that story the next happens to be a samaritan. Jesus say that the samaritan being the next, did help the next that he found in his road. Pay atention. The samaritanian who is the next, did not help anybody but the next infront of him, in his road, in his way.

We are suposed to help mour next, independetn is he is black, uruguayan, old, woman or millonaire. We have to help the nex, or brothers, but only the brother in our road, infront of us, those nbrother comming to us.

If you dont agree, replay.
If you poitn ot other text, my explanation will stand as final.

 

[Goinheix]

I will be back in few hours