Don Fortner

[stenerson]

Thanks guys for recommending this preacher. Man! Can he preach. He is in no way wishy washy concerning Arminianism or will worship, calling it a blasphemous doctrine that denies God the glory.
He also touched on the obsession some have with believer's rewards in Heaven. He said it has become more or less the Protestant version of purgatory.

 

[twin1954]

Thanks guys for recommending this preacher. Man! Can he preach. He is in no way wishy washy concerning Arminianism or will worship, calling it a blasphemous doctrine that denies God the glory.
He also touched on the obsession some have rewards in Heaven. He said it has become more or less the Protestant version of purgatory.

Yeah he is very straightforward and pulls no punches. He tells it like it is to be sure. I learned more sitting in the pew listening to him preach than I ever could have going to the school I moved my family in the area to attend.

But there are some other great preachers on freegrace radio as well. Listen to them too and you will see that they all have only one message and that is Christ.

 

[JM]

Jim Casey is another powerful preacher, similar content, different in style fr Fortner. Very measured but powerful. His sermons on Justification from Eternity are excellent.

 

[twin1954]

Jim Casey is another powerful preacher, similar content, different in style fr Fortner. Very measured but powerful. His sermons on Justification from Eternity are excellent.

Could you give me a link to those sermons?

 

[JM]

Sure thing brother.

The video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2nlCWQQ-mWI

Justification From Eternity | SermonAudio.com

Justification From Eternity - Part 2 | SermonAudio.com

 

[stenerson]

Had to drive several hours today. Heard more of Fortner's sermons.. He's more brutal in his take on Arminianism than any other preacher I've heard. Damnable heresy, anti-christ, because it puts man in the seat of Christ, Will-worship.
He even goes after reformed for some of the supposed heresies in their creeds (example Westminster confession, and Baptist confession.

 

[Apologetic_Warrior]

Had to drive several hours today. Heard more of Fortner's sermons.. He's more brutal in his take on Arminianism than any other preacher I've heard. Damnable heresy, anti-christ, because it puts man in the seat of Christ, Will-worship.

He even goes after reformed for some of the supposed heresies in their creeds (example Westminster confession, and Baptist confession.

I like Don Fortner, but wouldn't hang my life on every word he say's, even he would admit, he's a fallible man.

Great for polemics, not so great for charity and balance.

But then I do not hold the view that all Arminians are unsaved and going to hell. I do not believe they all pervert the Gospel nor consciously "will-worship". Many many Calvinists these days, were Arminians first, and if they are like me, know that God saved them long before they came to be Calvinists. But some people overemphasize "metal assertion" to propositions, even people who claim "grace alone", God doesn't save the Arminian for their Arminianism, nor the Calvinist for their Calvinism, God saves those He predestined, called, elected, those He foreLoved, because it pleases God, or to quote Shai Linne, "because He felt like it".

 

[twin1954]

I like Don Fortner, but wouldn't hang my life on every word he say's, even he would admit, he's a fallible man.

Great for polemics, not so great for charity and balance.

But then I do not hold the view that all Arminians are unsaved and going to hell. I do not believe they all pervert the Gospel nor consciously "will-worship". Many many Calvinists these days, were Arminians first, and if they are like me, know that God saved them long before they came to be Calvinists. But some people overemphasize "metal assertion" to propositions, even people who claim "grace alone", God doesn't save the Arminian for their Arminianism, nor the Calvinist for their Calvinism, God saves those He predestined, called, elected, those He foreLoved, because it pleases God, or to quote Shai Linne, "because He felt like it".

I think you would find that Don's view is more concerned about the god of Arminianism and the implications of it than about whether Arminians are saved. False doctrine flows from a false idea of God and nearly everything he says in that vein is in that context. For him it is much less about polemics and being antagonistic against Arminianism as much as it is about being clear about the difference between a false god and the true. He seeks to lift up Christ in his doctrine and preaching and call on people to believe on Him rather than a false idea of Him. His "polemics" is born from a sincere desire for men and women to know Christ as He is revealed in the Scriptures. It truly isn't about setting people straight on doctrine.

 

[Apologetic_Warrior]

I think you would find that Don's view is more concerned about the god of Arminianism and the implications of it than about whether Arminians are saved. False doctrine flows from a false idea of God and nearly everything he says in that vein is in that context. For him it is much less about polemics and being antagonistic against Arminianism as much as it is about being clear about the difference between a false god and the true. He seeks to lift up Christ in his doctrine and preaching and call on people to believe on Him rather than a false idea of Him. His "polemics" is born from a sincere desire for men and women to know Christ as He is revealed in the Scriptures. It truly isn't about setting people straight on doctrine.

That's great, us Calvinists who were once Arminians were led to be Calvinists by the false god of Arminianism...wow! But then if that's the case...

 

[JM]

I would disagree with Pastor Fortner when it comes to the Law and "good and nessasary consequence."

 

[stenerson]

I like Don Fortner, but wouldn't hang my life on every word he say's, even he would admit, he's a fallible man.

Great for polemics, not so great for charity and balance.

Yeah, I kind of wince and laugh at some of his stories..

But then I do not hold the view that all Arminians are unsaved and going to hell. I do not believe they all pervert the Gospel nor consciously "will-worship".

He seems to apply that word to Arminian, free will doctrine. Doesn't seem to be the context of the word.

Many many Calvinists these days, were Arminians first, and if they are like me, know that God saved them long before they came to be Calvinists. But some people overemphasize "metal assertion" to propositions, even people who claim "grace alone", God doesn't save the Arminian for their Arminianism, nor the Calvinist for their Calvinism, God saves those He predestined, called, elected, those He foreLoved, because it pleases God, or to quote Shai Linne, "because He felt like it".

Amen!

 

[twin1954]

That's great, us Calvinists who were once Arminians were led to be Calvinists by the false god of Arminianism...wow! But then if that's the case...

Sorry if that offends you. But I, and I speak for myself not Don, do not view the truth of God to be higher learning. Those of us who believe the truth of God which often goes by the name of Calvinism have not reached a higher place than the Arminian we have come to know Christ as He is revealed in the Scriptures. As I said it isn't about whether an Arminian is saved or not for that doesn't even enter into the equation. What matters is if folks know Christ. I simply cannot see how one who holds to Arminian doctrine can for some of the very same reasons that Don gives. But I do want you to understand that I held that view long before I ever met Don.

Edit to add additional comments:

I would like to add that I have known about as many dead Calvinists as I have dead Arminians. Calvinism for the sake of doctrine in just as damning as Arminianism. It ain't about one doctrine over another but about the revelation to your soul the truth concerning Jesus Christ and His wondrous work in the place of sinners.

Moreover my previous post was in defense of Don for he is a close friend of mine. He would never defend himself, and believe me if you preach the way he does you have plenty of enemies and I have never known him to once seek to defend himself, so I have no problem defending my brother and friend. I would do the same for you.

 

[JM]

A person who confesses Arminianism from a standpoint of knowledge and understanding denies the God of the Bible. I know believers who deny Calvinism but acknowledge Calvinism practically, also denying Arminianism.

Yours in The Lord,

jm

 

[Apologetic_Warrior]

Sorry if that offends you. But I, and I speak for myself not Don, do not view the truth of God to be higher learning. Those of us who believe the truth of God which often goes by the name of Calvinism have not reached a higher place than the Arminian we have come to know Christ as He is revealed in the Scriptures. As I said it isn't about whether an Arminian is saved or not for that doesn't even enter into the equation. What matters is if folks know Christ. I simply cannot see how one who holds to Arminian doctrine can for some of the very same reasons that Don gives. But I do want you to understand that I held that view long before I ever met Don.

Edit to add additional comments:

I would like to add that I have known about as many dead Calvinists as I have dead Arminians. Calvinism for the sake of doctrine in just as damning as Arminianism. It ain't about one doctrine over another but about the revelation to your soul the truth concerning Jesus Christ and His wondrous work in the place of sinners.

Moreover my previous post was in defense of Don for he is a close friend of mine. He would never defend himself, and believe me if you preach the way he does you have plenty of enemies and I have never known him to once seek to defend himself, so I have no problem defending my brother and friend. I would do the same for you.

Nobody does the same for me or ever has, quite the contrary, I have had more enemies than friends, but the Lord is my shield and tower of refuge.

We can rejoice together in agreement on the embolded text, but with the qualification that our knowledge of others is less than the knowledge of ourselves, and one who was not a Calvinist yesterday, the Lord may turn into a Calvinist tomorrow, we simply do not know people's hearts, and our own heart would deceive us, which why we follow the Lord and not our heart.

 

[stenerson]

Don Fortner speaks of Arminians (in his sermons) the way we would speak of Mormons or Jehovah's Witnesses. "Damnable heresies, doctrine of anti-christ, those that bring another, false gospel. Don't let them into your houses or bid them God speed. "
The truth is, I would not feel comfortable judging individuals, but can see his point concerning the doctrine itself.
What I do enjoy about His preaching is I've found few that preach about God's completed, perfect atonement which as much passion as he does.

 

[GQ Chris]

I have a problem with people using that word "judging". It is thrown around so loosely and so freely as to be devoid of any context.

 

[JM]

A soul we cannot judge, but doctrine...doctrine is wide open for judgement.

 

[Apologetic_Warrior]

Don Fortner speaks of Arminians (in his sermons) the way we would speak of Mormons or Jehovah's Witnesses. "Damnable heresies, doctrine of anti-christ, those that bring another, false gospel. Don't let them into your houses or bid them God speed. "

The truth is, I would not feel comfortable judging individuals, but can see his point concerning the doctrine itself.

What I do enjoy about His preaching is I've found few that preach about God's completed, perfect atonement which as much passion as he does.

Perhaps if I lived in a nice Reformed community, from a nice Reformed background and education, with a nice Reformed family, friends, and neighbors, and don't forget white picket fences (none of which is the case for me), I might feel comfortable enough in my Reformed bubble to call the Gospel according to Arminianism "damnable heresy" but even so it would still be hypothetical at best. Arminianism is error, and serious error, but I am not about to called it damnable, because I know, despite the errors, God can use the foolishness of Arminian preachers, to save those He elected before the foundation of the world, by grace alone. If it were damnable, this would not be the case, God does not bless damnable heresy, people are not born again under cultist preaching. I should take a break from this, I really do not enjoy defending theology I do not agree with, nor recommend, nor advise going to Arminian Churches or reading from most of their resources. It's all inferior, riddled with truth and error, and unless a person enjoys sifting and sorting through it all the time, I really cannot recommend it. I always recommend Calvinism and Calvinists, these are the most God centered, Christ centered, faithful to Scripture and most biblical teachings and teachers this side of Heaven!

 

[JM]

I've never had to suffer thru any Arminain phase and I thank God for that. I was born again Calvinist.

 

[stenerson]

I've never had to suffer thru any Arminain phrase and I thank God for that. I was born again Calvinist.

I'm grateful in a way, growing up in a very legalistic, hyper-Arminian church.
Makes me appreciate the doctrines of grace that much more. Also makes me sympathetic with those struggling with these questions. It was all part of God's decree so I can't complain.