Dominion and Dominionism Questions

[Scottmcc1]

I don't know what dominion theology is from printed or teaching.

This is what my dominion understanding is.

Jesus said that His kingdom is not of this world. So it is not political or military.

Genesis we are to subdue the earth and take dominion. We can use the earth for our benefit and that of others, as we use it justly and wisely.

Matthew 28:18-20 All authority has been given to Jesus so we are to make disciples all over the earth and teach them to observe Jesus' teachings.

Luke 10 Jesus has given us authority over all the power of the enemy. We can minister for Jesus and not be overcome by the enemy. We overcome by the blood of Jesus, the word of our testimony and we do not love our life even unto death. Rev 12:11

What we set out to do we can succeed because we are working with the Lord and He is working with us. IF we deny ourselves and walk as disciples. Psalm 1 Psalm 91

we are the head and not the tail. Deut 28 we are the one who sets the agenda as led by God. That does not mean people who walk by the flesh will understand or agree with what we are doing.

Dominion is a faith walk. It is taking over something of the natural and ruling in the Spirit. Light defeats darkness. But dominion is enforced in the spirit not the flesh. Faith works through love, so dominion is working for the good of others.

 

[Messy]

There is only ONE way the enemy can have valid dominion on the earth. That is to be born on the earth as a man.

Oh of course, now I get it.
I read somewhere that Kingdom Now said that the coming of Jesus would be announced on television, which reminded me of the dream of Ken Peters about the antichrist. But I checked some webpages from people who some say are from Kingdom Now, but they don't say that. So I got no idea who's associated with it and if it's even true. It was just a regular warning here for the churches to watch out for it.

 

[Yitzchak]

I frequently hear people diss "dominionism" like it has a full set of luggage (baggage) that comes with it.

1) What is dominionism? Don't mention any names! I just want to know what people associate about it. Obviously many people feel it violates certain scriptures? Which ones? (Don't just point me to a Youtube video because I don't want to hear any names.)

2) Tell me what you feel proper dominion is in the New Covenant? With as much authority the church has over the enemy and the charge God gave to Adam, it more than implies a proper and well balanced dominion. Let's explore what that is and leave the baggage as the wrong example and take up authority where it truly belongs.

I remember "debating" with atheists, and I'd say one thing you really couldn't deny and they had a clever "handle" that argument was called. If you mentioned it, they'd tag you with it as though that dismissed your inquiry.

If they cared at all they'd take the tag off and re-examine the question, because it was compelling and correct. Just because someone puts a derogatory association on something doesn't mean that it is wrong.

You're going to have to provide scripture in context. You're going to have to do it without making ANYONE in the Body of Christ look bad. No such luxury! If you can't do it without doing this, you're already wrong and have no leg to stand on whatsoever.

The word itself is instructive.

from the dictionary...dominion

1. Control or the exercise of control; sovereignty: "The devil . . . has their souls in his possession, and under his dominion" (Jonathan Edwards).

2. A territory or sphere of influence or control; a realm.

At it's root , Dominionism has to do with God's kingdom upon this earth. How that kingdom is enforced and by whom and what things fall under it's control.

The scripture teaches that in the end , everything upon the earth will come under God's control and His kingdom will be established upon the earth in it's fullness. The argument is about what role the church has in enforcing that rule and the timing of it.

I disagree with the extreme of pro Dominist thought which was the mindset behind the Crusades and the political power that the Roman Catholic Church exerted for hundreds of years.

On the other hand , I disagree with the opposite extreme that we are to have zero involvement in politics. The founding of the United States is full of Dominist ideology and now a few hundred years later the partakers of the blessing that resulted for the United States are questioning the mindset that helped to found the United States and Canada.

 

[notreligus]

I don't know who or what group claims to have originated Dominionism or Kingdom Now teaching, but I am confident that it is just an offshoot of Post-Millennialism.

In a nutshell Post-Millennials believe that the Gospel will eventually permeate most of the world and Christianity will be the majority worldwide faith. Alexander Campbell, who published the Millennial Harbinger for twenty years, thought that his teaching of the restoration of the original church would spread throughout the world and this would usher in the return of Christ. He thought that in the mid-1800's that worldwide peace was on the horizon and the world would be receptive to his teachings. This "insignificant" event called the Civil War came along and put a damper on his plans.

We've had many wars and world wars. About the time we humans stop killing each other we invent another war. WWI, WWII, the Korean, Viet Nam, the various Middle East wars, and continued wars and in the Middle East, Africa and elsewhere paint a bleak picture. I think that the Post-Millennial belief has waned in light of all of the wars, pestilence and unrest. Worldwide peace, based on the message of the Gospel, looks less and less likely to us. So, some who still think that sounds like what ought to occur have come up with Plan B, or Dominionism. Let's jump start this thing and get Christians in politics. Let's elect Pat Robertson. Francis and Frankie Schaeffer are right that we should invade the arts and Christians should be the head rather than the tail. That's a scenario that we can envision and one that actually allows some light at the end of the tunnel and many can see this happening in their lifetimes.

I'm pretty sure that Pat Robertson is a Dominionist. The former president of Regent University has written a book on the subject. Kingdom Now folk are saying that Christians should take their financial wealth and prosperity back from the devil who has robbed us. It all sounds good. Christ said to occupy until He comes, so we're not supposed to lay back and let the enemy treat us like doormats.

Now, here is the flip-side. Dispensationalism. Everything is hopeless. We don't know who the Beast is but he's got to be just around the corner. The world is in the worse condition ever. First it was Rome (Popes and Catholicism) and then it was the revived Roman Empire, and now it's the Muslims. God is going to restore Israel. We can't say anything negative about Israel because that will bring a curse on us. CUFI is lobbying our Federal government to make a preemptive strike against Iran to protect Israel. Of course that will probably bring on WWIII and that will have to speed up the return of Christ. We Christians who love Israel so much can't wait to be raptured out of this mess and 2/3 of these Jews we love so much are going to be wiped out during the Great Tribulation.

Christ has the best idea. Let's occupy until He comes. Let's be a light and salt. Let's share the Gospel with as many as we can. Like Keith Green said in one of his songs in reference to the Lord, "He'll take care of the rest." We're told how this all ends and the people of God will be with Him forever. That will be much better than owning a Rolex.

 

[ToBeBlessed]

From Wikipedia:

Dominion Theology is a grouping of theological systems with the common belief that society should be governed exclusively by the law of God, as codified in the Bible. The two main streams of Dominion Theology are Christian Reconstructionism and Kingdom Now Theology. Though these two differ greatly in their general theological orientation (the first is strongly Reformed and Neo-Calvinistic, the second is Charismatic), they share a postmillennial vision in which the Kingdom of God will be established on Earth through political and (in some cases) military means.

Dominion Theology is seen by some as a subset of Dominionism, a theological form of political ideology, that some social scientists and journalists claim has broadly influenced the Christian Right in the United States, Canada, and Europe, within Protestant Christian evangelicalism and fundamentalism.

Dominionism is the alleged movement of politically active conservative Christians in the United States working toward either a nation governed by Christians or one governed by a conservative Christian understanding of biblical law.

The existence of a dominionist movement is challenged, particularly by those in the Christian Right, who generally avoid the label and see the characterizations as misleadingly implying that mainstream conservative Christians subscribe to Dominion Theology, a viewpoint held by a much smaller group of Christians explicitly advocating for a theocracy.

Apart from a handful of social scientists who first coined it, the terms dominionism and dominionist (when not referring to those subscribing to Dominion Theology) are almost exclusively used by journalists and bloggers.

The most prominent modern formulation of Dominion Theology is Christian Reconstructionism, founded by R. J. Rushdoony in the 1970s. Reconstructionists themselves use the word dominionism to refer to their belief that Christians alone should control civil government, conducting it according to Biblical laws that governed the Israelites in the Old Testament. His system is strongly Calvinistic, emphasizing the sovereignty of God over human freedom and action, and denying the operation of charismatic gifts in the present day (cessationism); both of these aspects are in direct opposition to Kingdom Now Theology.

ADDING TO THE ABOVE DEFINITION THE FOLLOWING

In the early 1990s sociologist Sara Diamond[24][25] and journalist Frederick Clarkson[26][27] defined dominionism as a movement that, while including Dominion Theology and Reconstructionism as subsets, is much broader in scope, extending to much of the Christian Right[28] In his 1992 study of Dominion Theology and its influence on the Christian Right, Bruce Barron writes,

"In the context of American evangelical efforts to penetrate and transform public life, the distinguishing mark of a dominionist is a commitment to defining and carrying out an approach to building society that is self-consciously defined as exclusively Christian, and dependent specifically on the work of Christians, rather than based on a broader consensus.​

[29]According to Diamond, the defining concept of dominionism is "that Christians alone are Biblically mandated to occupy all secular institutions until Christ returns"

END OF WIKIPEDIA DEFINITION


What I don't understand is how this ties in with the Word? Doesn't the Book of Revelation in the Bible tell us that the AntiChrist will come and create a false church before the return of Jesus?

Are they trying to change biblical prophesy? There is something that I am not understanding.

 

[Alive_Again]

...they share a postmillennial vision in which the Kingdom of God will be established on Earth through political and (in some cases) military means.

We know that God's kingdom is not of this world. Yet, it is at hand.

So if some Spirit filled believers were elected to government posts, would this be a bad thing? Is it supposed to happen? I haven't heard anyone say that it should. But if believers run and win (good!). If we pray for believers to win, also good.

Dominionism is the alleged movement of politically active conservative Christians in the United States working toward either a nation governed by Christians or one governed by a conservative Christian understanding of biblical law.

Nothing wrong with that. I don't see it happening, but we're not supposed to sit around and let the enemy run things outright.

...Reconstructionists themselves use the word dominionism to refer to their belief that Christians alone should control civil government, conducting it according to Biblical laws that governed the Israelites in the Old Testament.

Christians "alone" should control civil government? That's a nice ideal, but I wouldn't hold my breath on it for too long. I have yet to hear anyone prophesy or testify that God told them this would happen.

[29]According to Diamond, the defining concept of dominionism is "that Christians alone are Biblically mandated to occupy all secular institutions until Christ returns"

"All secular institutions." I guess if you can swing it!

What I hear being preached is that God is simply going to show Himself on the earth. That miracles will be more commonplace.

Something of a creative "renaissance", which I've wanted to see for a long time is supposed to happen. It's for the glory of God, not man. It's to draw people to Jesus. It's not something bad.

The whole "creative idea" thing as given by the Spirit of God to give people business ideas, and creative ideas, and medical solutions, and new technologies, and another fuel source. Why on earth would anyone object to this?

So no one is going to "rush the building" and take it over and hoist the flag. That is foolishness. I have yet to hear it preached by any known Spirit filled entities. I believe this is all paranoia and like so many legitimate things of the Spirit, made to have the anointing look bad, but it's going to look good.

You've got to get the revelation of it in your spirit. The worst thing you can do is to speak judgment against these things. Just reserve your opinions if you're not convinced. Obviously it's not going to be like what's been quoted, and it's not really being preached that way.

Does it not all boil down to "handing it over to Christ" according to the strength of man? Isn't that the perception people who name drop "dominionism" really are getting at? Feel free to answer if you use the name.

What people should be doing (IMO), is providing quotes from these preachers who are supposedly wrong. Let's look at what they're saying. Dominion is scriptural, and just because some people feel others are saying one thing, doesn't mean that is what is being proclaimed. It appears to be what is being "heard".

 

[ToBeBlessed]

What I hear being preached is that God is simply going to show Himself on the earth. That miracles will be more commonplace.

That is against scripture and false. Jesus will not come back until the temple is rebuilt in Jereslem where the Temple Mount is now, the AntiChrist becomes the peacemaker of the world, and signs a peace treaty.

Why do you listen to people who CONTRADICT the Word of God?

DO you not know there will be many false prophets, wolves in sheep's clothing who will mislead God's people? They come like ravenous wolves ready to destroy.

Do you follow scripture or do you not follow scripture. Yes or No. :o

Very simple.

 

[Alive_Again]

What I hear being preached is that God is simply going to show Himself on the earth. That miracles will be more commonplace.
​

That is against scripture and false. Jesus will not come back until the temple is rebuilt in Jereslem where the Temple Mount is now, the AntiChrist becomes the peacemaker of the world, and signs a peace treaty.

Why do you listen to people who CONTRADICT the Word of God?

DO you not know there will be many false prophets, wolves in sheep's clothing who will mislead God's people? They come like ravenous wolves ready to destroy.

Here we go with the "ditch version" again. It does not contradict the Word to say that the power of the Holy Spirit will be more prevalent on the earth. I know it is difficult not to see things as they have been, but it really is going to be different.

This doesn't mean that the Lord is about to come back, or that He has to come back for this to happen. This was the plan of God from the beginning, that there would be a mighty move of His Spirit. What is difficult about that?

I think it's probably correct to see another temple built in Jerusalem, but that has nothing to do with what is being preached, prayed, and prophesied about this "dominion" thing. We're talking about God showing off for a while, and having a big harvest. It's about revival. At what point did that become unscriptual? Don't you think if a whole bunch of people started getting saved and the church actually started loving each other, instead of giving place to accusations, that even the world would take notice?

Maybe they'd think we actually had something!

Do you follow scripture or do you not follow scripture. Yes or No.

There are scriptures about the glory of the Lord in a way we have not yet seen. (Do YOU believe them?). Jesus spoke of the "greater works". Do YOU believe that?

Everything else is still in place in God's timetable. Nothing is interrupted by Him doing this. If we really knew the Word, we'd know that this day was coming. The glory of the Lord. It doesn't have to be the rapture, or even the tribulation for this to take place.

It's like no one is listening. People get so stuck in the ditch about "dominion". It's the narrow way, and as the church comes into this closer walk, it will be square on the narrow path. That is the Word of God. Like it or not, it's coming to a neighborhood near you.

 

[ToBeBlessed]

What I hear being preached is that God is simply going to show Himself on the earth. That miracles will be more commonplace.
​

Here we go with the "ditch version" again. It does not contradict the Word to say that the power of the Holy Spirit will be more prevalent on the earth. I know it is difficult not to see things as they have been, but it really is going to be different.

This doesn't mean that the Lord is about to come back, or that He has to come back for this to happen. This was the plan of God from the beginning, that there would be a mighty move of His Spirit. What is difficult about that?

I think it's probably correct to see another temple built in Jerusalem, but that has nothing to do with what is being preached, prayed, and prophesied about this "dominion" thing. We're talking about God showing off for a while, and having a big harvest. It's about revival. At what point did that become unscriptual? Don't you think if a whole bunch of people started getting saved and the church actually started loving each other, instead of giving place to accusations, that even the world would take notice?

Maybe they'd think we actually had something!
There are scriptures about the glory of the Lord in a way we have not yet seen. (Do YOU believe them?). Jesus spoke of the "greater works". Do YOU believe that?

Everything else is still in place in God's timetable. Nothing is interrupted by Him doing this. If we really knew the Word, we'd know that this day was coming. The glory of the Lord. It doesn't have to be the rapture, or even the tribulation for this to take place.

It's like no one is listening. People get so stuck in the ditch about "dominion". It's the narrow way, and as the church comes into this closer walk, it will be square on the narrow path. That is the Word of God. Like it or not, it's coming to a neighborhood near you.

The ONLY one-world government/system that WILL BE is the AntiChrist.

We ARE in the LAST DAYS. There will also be the AntiChrist, the Beast and a False Prophet in that trinity (notice how Satan counterfeits and copies all things of Christ). That is biblical.

The bible DOES NOT say things will get better, in fact there will be more evil.

2 Timothy 4:2-4​

"preach the word; be ready in season and out of season; reprove, rebuke, and exhort, with complete patience and teaching. For the time is coming when people will not endure sound teaching, but having itching ears they will accumulate for themselves teachers to suit their own passions, and will turn away from listening to the truth and wander off into myths"​

YOU are walking a VERY SLIPPERY SLOPE.
We know the Word of God is COMPLETE and is SOLID.

God knows us before we were, he would know and put it in the bible if there was to be a revolution. He TELLS us in the BIBLE what to LOOK for, what is COMING, so we are NOT DECEIVED.

Do not accumulate teachers to suit your own passions and turn away from listening to the truth and wander off into myths. This is NOT of the HOLY SPIRIT. Get OUT of this NOW! Please!

2 Timothy 3:1-13​

"There will be terrible times in the last days. People will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boastful, proud, abusive, disobedient to their parents, ungrateful, unholy, without love, unforgiving, slanderous, without self-control, brutal, not lovers of the good, treacherous, rash, conceited, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God-- having a form of godliness but denying its power. Have nothing to do with them. They are the kind who worm their way into homes and gain control over weak-willed women, who are loaded down with sins and are swayed by all kinds of evil desires, always learning but never able to acknowledge the truth. Just as Jannes and Jambres opposed Moses, so also these men oppose the truth--men of depraved minds, who, as far as the faith is concerned, are rejected. But they will not get very far because, as in the case of those men, their folly will be clear to everyone. You, however, know all about my teaching, my way of life, my purpose, faith, patience, love, endurance, persecutions, sufferings--what kinds of things happened to me in Antioch, Iconium and Lystra, the persecutions I endured. Yet the Lord rescued me from all of them. In fact, everyone who wants to live a godly life in Christ Jesus will be persecuted, while evil men and impostors will go from bad to worse, deceiving and being deceived."
​

Matthew 7:15​

Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves​

1 Peter 4:17​

"For it is time for judgment to begin with the household of God; and if it begins with us first, what will be the outcome for those who do not obey the gospel of God?​

Do not stray from the Word of God. He told us what the end times would be like so we will not be deceived. This will not bear fruit, it will bear rotten fruit because it is not God's will.

I am worried for you, all of you. Seriously.

 

[Alive_Again]

Btw, you don't have to quote the entire message. Just a portion will suffice.

The ONLY one-world government/system that WILL BE is the AntiChrist.

I really hate to wear the phrase out, but once again, this is the DITCH VERSION. You're likely getting your inputs from wikipedia or from the naysayers. They're the ones that say it's about controlling everything. No one is really saying that (that I've heard). If they did, I surely would not run after it. No one has yet provided any quotes to indicate this is so. I see it an uninformed paranoia.

I seriously doubt there will ever be a point in time where believers hold all of the political offices, and even a majority of them. I doubt they'll run the schools, etc. Everyone is NOT going to become a believer either. Darkness will wax worse and worse. It's right there in the Word. NO ONE is affirming this. There will always be persecution.

We ARE in the LAST DAYS. There will also be the AntiChrist, the Beast and a False Prophet in that trinity (notice how Satan counterfeits and copies all things of Christ). That is biblical.

Maybe, the beginning of the last days. People have been preaching doom and gloom for so long that they only receive that as reality. You've attached the "last days" thing (as I used to) to these times. You assume the antichrist is waiting right now to come forward from his polished black throne.

The bible DOES NOT say things will get better, in fact there will be more evil.

For the earth shall be filled with the knowledge of the glory of the LORD, as the waters cover the sea.
Hab 2:14

Come, and let us return unto the LORD: for he hath torn, and he will heal us; he hath smitten, and he will bind us up. After two days will he revive us: in the third day he will raise us up, and we shall live in his sight. Then shall we know, if we follow on to know the LORD: his going forth is prepared as the morning; and he shall come unto us as the rain, as the latter and former rain unto the earth.
Hosea 6:1-3

Be glad then, ye children of Zion, and rejoice in the LORD your God: for he hath given you the former rain moderately, and he will cause to come down for you the rain, the former rain, and the latter rain in the first month. And the floors shall be full of wheat, and the fats shall overflow with wine and oil. And I will restore to you the years that the locust hath eaten, the cankerworm, and the caterpiller, and the palmerworm, my great army which I sent among you. And ye shall eat in plenty, and be satisfied, and praise the name of the LORD your God, that hath dealt wondrously with you: and my people shall never be ashamed. And ye shall know that I am in the midst of Israel, and that I am the LORD your God, and none else: and my people shall never be ashamed.
Joel 2:23-27

Although this has been fulfilled on an individual basis, there is a corporate time of fulfillment as well. It was partially fulfilled at the time of Pentecost. There will be the "latter" fulfillment as well.

These things are not myths.

Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father. And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son. If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do it.
John 14:12-14

The reason we lack at all with a promise like this is because we don't know how to abide very well. Nothing like a revival (of teaching also) to help out the process.

YOU are walking a VERY SLIPPERY SLOPE.

You assume this because you think I hold to the "ditch version" of dominionism (which I do not).

God knows us before we were, he would know and put it in the bible if there was to be a revolution. He TELLS us in the BIBLE what to LOOK for, what is COMING, so we are NOT DECEIVED.

That's true and it is coming. But some things are NOT for this time. You and many others have attached that. But God has been prophesying a great harvest for some time. It is going to happen. It won't happen AFTER the rapture. It won't happen AFTER Millenial Reign.

Do not accumulate teachers to suit your own passions and turn away from listening to the truth and wander off into myths. This is NOT of the HOLY SPIRIT. Get OUT of this NOW! Please!

If you've heard this in the Spirit you'd know that it is not a myth. It's what God wants to do in this time in the world.

As far as the measure of the 10-60-100 fold blessing that the church has been walking in, there will be a marked increase in fruit (based on a greater measure of obedience). That is, for the ones who will walk in this.

There's no need to fear God's great glory on the earth.

The church is in for a big tune-up. This is good news! He's going to send fire and "burn out" the love of the world out of the church. There's a lot of the world in much of the church and again, this is a good thing (not a myth).

One thing God told Kat Kerr, is that He's tired of them preaching the doom and gloom. He wants His people to be excited right now. That is discerning the time and season. There's a great activity that's been in preparation for some time and it is going to come into fruition.

So what happens when people start moving in their anointing in a (much) greater way? In the Body, they function in a greater unity, and realize their callings. In the natural, they flow in the creative giftings. Since He's directing this show, it will be for His glory.

So yes, the enemy will still be around, his people will still persecute and gnash their teeth in indignation. The lines will be more clearly drawn and those who really want God will run after His camp (of signs, wonders, and miracles -- God came up with these btw, not the devil). Those who prefer to do what they do will go the other way.

All of the passages you might quote are going to happen in their time. Some are happening now (and have been happening since the beginning of the church). Still, God is going to have His day before it all ends. The mighty outpouring of the Spirit is going to draw the church together in love such as never before. It's not "error" or something to fear. It's gonna happen!

When it does, are you going to withdraw and be offended by it?

I am worried for you, all of you. Seriously.

It will prove itself out. One thing is not to oppose it or "warn people" against it. The move of God's Spirit brings life not evil.

God bless.

 

[RDKirk]

You assume this because you think I hold to the "ditch version" of dominionism (which I do not).

So what is this "ditch version," what is your version, and who else is following your version?

Frankly, if the "Wikipedia version" is the version that all the Dominionist politicians are following, you have to convince us why we need to care about your version.

 

[ToBeBlessed]

Btw, you don't have to quote the entire message. Just a portion will suffice.


I really hate to wear the phrase out, but once again, this is the DITCH VERSION. You're likely getting your inputs from wikipedia or from the naysayers. They're the ones that say it's about controlling everything. No one is really saying that (that I've heard). If they did, I surely would not run after it. No one has yet provided any quotes to indicate this is so. I see it an uninformed paranoia.

I seriously doubt there will ever be a point in time where believers hold all of the political offices, and even a majority of them. I doubt they'll run the schools, etc. Everyone is NOT going to become a believer either. Darkness will wax worse and worse. It's right there in the Word. NO ONE is affirming this. There will always be persecution.

Maybe, the beginning of the last days. People have been preaching doom and gloom for so long that they only receive that as reality. You've attached the "last days" thing (as I used to) to these times. You assume the antichrist is waiting right now to come forward from his polished black throne.


For the earth shall be filled with the knowledge of the glory of the LORD, as the waters cover the sea.
Hab 2:14

Come, and let us return unto the LORD: for he hath torn, and he will heal us; he hath smitten, and he will bind us up. After two days will he revive us: in the third day he will raise us up, and we shall live in his sight. Then shall we know, if we follow on to know the LORD: his going forth is prepared as the morning; and he shall come unto us as the rain, as the latter and former rain unto the earth.
Hosea 6:1-3

Be glad then, ye children of Zion, and rejoice in the LORD your God: for he hath given you the former rain moderately, and he will cause to come down for you the rain, the former rain, and the latter rain in the first month. And the floors shall be full of wheat, and the fats shall overflow with wine and oil. And I will restore to you the years that the locust hath eaten, the cankerworm, and the caterpiller, and the palmerworm, my great army which I sent among you. And ye shall eat in plenty, and be satisfied, and praise the name of the LORD your God, that hath dealt wondrously with you: and my people shall never be ashamed. And ye shall know that I am in the midst of Israel, and that I am the LORD your God, and none else: and my people shall never be ashamed.
Joel 2:23-27

Although this has been fulfilled on an individual basis, there is a corporate time of fulfillment as well. It was partially fulfilled at the time of Pentecost. There will be the "latter" fulfillment as well.

These things are not myths.

Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father. And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son. If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do it.
John 14:12-14

The reason we lack at all with a promise like this is because we don't know how to abide very well. Nothing like a revival (of teaching also) to help out the process.
You assume this because you think I hold to the "ditch version" of dominionism (which I do not).

That's true and it is coming. But some things are NOT for this time. You and many others have attached that. But God has been prophesying a great harvest for some time. It is going to happen. It won't happen AFTER the rapture. It won't happen AFTER Millenial Reign.

If you've heard this in the Spirit you'd know that it is not a myth. It's what God wants to do in this time in the world.

As far as the measure of the 10-60-100 fold blessing that the church has been walking in, there will be a marked increase in fruit (based on a greater measure of obedience). That is, for the ones who will walk in this.

There's no need to fear God's great glory on the earth.

The church is in for a big tune-up. This is good news! He's going to send fire and "burn out" the love of the world out of the church. There's a lot of the world in much of the church and again, this is a good thing (not a myth).

One thing God told Kat Kerr, is that He's tired of them preaching the doom and gloom. He wants His people to be excited right now. That is discerning the time and season. There's a great activity that's been in preparation for some time and it is going to come into fruition.

So what happens when people start moving in their anointing in a (much) greater way? In the Body, they function in a greater unity, and realize their callings. In the natural, they flow in the creative giftings. Since He's directing this show, it will be for His glory.

So yes, the enemy will still be around, his people will still persecute and gnash their teeth in indignation. The lines will be more clearly drawn and those who really want God will run after His camp (of signs, wonders, and miracles -- God came up with these btw, not the devil). Those who prefer to do what they do will go the other way.

All of the passages you might quote are going to happen in their time. Some are happening now (and have been happening since the beginning of the church). Still, God is going to have His day before it all ends. The mighty outpouring of the Spirit is going to draw the church together in love such as never before. It's not "error" or something to fear. It's gonna happen!

When it does, are you going to withdraw and be offended by it?

It will prove itself out. One thing is not to oppose it or "warn people" against it. The move of God's Spirit brings life not evil.

God bless.

This is what I find with the 'Dominion' and 'Kingdom Now' people is that each grabs on to the pieces they find relevant and tosses the others away, YET they willingly associate themselves with these teachings even though they obviously do NOT know what they are all about.

The things I spoke about are 'Last Days' prophecy. You can throw them away, but I am not going to argue Last Days with anyone who is not familiar with the Bible and what it says about the Last Days.

To mix parts of the bible that are not Last Days prophecy with the parts that are is just foolish. It was made clear in the Word what will happen in the last days, but those who do not believe the Word put their own meaning into scripture to make their case.

I suggest you do a study of what the bible has to say about the last days and the prophesies in the Word that have ALREADY come true, such as Israel becoming a nation in 1948.

You put your trust in men (fallible, imperfect) and their prophesies, believing all this over what the Word has to say.

I hope you choose to do a bible study on the last days, with no preconceived outcomes, but open to revelation in the Spirit and in prayer.

~ May we all find truth when we seek it with open hearts, honoring God's Word.

 

[Alive_Again]

This is what I find with the 'Dominion' and 'Kingdom Now' people is that each grabs on to the pieces they find relevant and tosses the others away, YET they willingly associate themselves with these teachings even though they obviously do NOT know what they are all about.

There's no winning is there!? I responded to what was posted by the one who commented about it without presenting data.

So far, he copied and pasted a little and then we got some Wikipedia stuff thrown in. I went over it carefully and didn't find anything controversial in it. It was all balanced stuff.

If you have some quotations from some people to consider, we'll gladly look at that. But just to throw the byword "dominion" out there as a bad thing, does not hold any water without some evidence to prove that.

Also, at least according to the Wikipedia thing, there's the Evangelical church version and the charismatic version. The Evangelical take on many things is so far removed from Pentecost feast Christianity (at times at least) that I gave up a long time ago even trying to explain that to them. If you haven't gone through the Spirit Filled experience, there is no basis for understanding.

But if "Brother Joe Blow" over there believes "We're to control the government", and 99% of the so-called "charismatic dominion" people don't say that at all, I would not hold that as a characteristic of dominionism.

The things I spoke about are 'Last Days' prophecy. You can throw them away, but I am not going to argue Last Days with anyone who is not familiar with the Bible and what it says about the Last Days.

I can relate to a number of things the Lord showed the church about the last days. I could look around, and it is easy to try and connect the two together (with Iran and Israel and Russia). But you're connecting the last days with this day. That is a matter of opinion.

Really, a lot has to transpire before that occurs (the revival/harvest). So you have to choose whether to hold fast to the doom and gloom version of the good news, where the defeated church gets whisked away from the enemy before he consumes them. OR, God having His way (largely) for a time and bringing many people into the kingdom. THEN the enemy is allowed his bit before it all wraps up.

I'm not cutting you down for believing that. I used to myself. But I also heard about what God is wanting to do now in this day and if the Holy Spirit bears witness, you can line up a row of preachers who all think the Lord is coming back this decade, and I will choose the witness of the Spirit.

To mix parts of the bible that are not Last Days prophecy with the parts that are is just foolish. It was made clear in the Word what will happen in the last days, but those who do not believe the Word put their own meaning into scripture to make their case.

I understand what you're saying, but you're connecting it to this timeline, and I don't believe that is correct. You're gonna get to see it and then the whole argument will be moot. The problem with that is, that we're supposed to be getting prepared and not acting like we need to run away to avoid the darkness.

You put your trust in men (fallible, imperfect) and their prophesies, believing all this over what the Word has to say.

As I said (although you don't believe me), I received the witness from the Spirit of God regarding the upcoming revival, so I could prepare. He's put it on my heart many times to tell others as well, and each time (from those who could receive it), the Holy Spirit poured out wonderfully. That's a good way to "prove" or "test" things -- by the fruits.

I hope you get it. I hate to see believers get upset when the good news of this age of the church is proclaimed. It's not bad news and it doesn't alter anything else God said He would do (in its proper time).

Usually it is the "baggage" people associate with a revelation or a doctrine they are upset about. Upon closer examination though, it is sometimes a very balanced doctrine (minus the assumed baggage).

 

[Alive_Again]

Just noticed that I missed this...

So what is this "ditch version," what is your version, and who else is following your version?

Frankly, if the "Wikipedia version" is the version that all the Dominionist politicians are following, you have to convince us why we need to care about your version.

It appears that the "ditch version" of dominionism is that which people seemingly have attached to real scriptural dominion. That dominion should be exercised now and it already belongs to the church by virtue of Jesus' defeat of the enemy.

Some attributes of the ditch version seem to be that the church will take over all aspects of society, that they'll take over governments, finally defeat the devil and put him out, ending the world's view of him, and getting the world together where it can be presented to the Lord Jesus for Him to rule and reign over. It seems that some think that others views of dominionism means that their will be no tribulation or rapture, but rather that that this would be unnecessary.

That's the ditch version, at least as it appears to me based on what little I've seen and the commented I've heard from time to time.

I'll post again on what I believe it really is and how I have received my concept of it.

 

[Alive_Again]

...what is your version, and who else is following your version?
...you have to convince us why we need to care about your version.

I remember listening to Apostle Kelley Varner preach about the Feast of Tabernacles. He spoke of how (scripturally) God lived in a three room house (based on the tabernacle of Moses). There were three courts and each court related to a corresponding feast. The "Passover Feast" (Outer Court) was where one received salvation.

(Condensed version) The Holy Place relating to the Pentecost Feast is where you first experience the reality of the Holy Spirit. It was more than eternal life. It is a greater knowing of God than just being born again. (Not to belittle that at all.) It is a place of mixture though. It was the only feast that had "leaven" in it. This is the leaven of the Holy Spirit and the Kingdom of God. This feast (according to Varner), is the 60 fold walk in the Spirit.

The 100-fold walk is the "Holy of Holies" (Feast of Tabernacles) experience. It is where you realize the fulness of your inheritance (as can be received on Earth). It is where you experience the awesome manifest presence of God and hear the voice of God constantly. It is a place without mixture. It is a place without personal agendas. It is a place of protection, if you dwelled there.

I personally believe that people can enter into there experientially for a time, but their walk does not permit them to dwell there.

Anway, I remember discussing this with a brother after one of Varner's services, which we loved. The tabernacles thing was REAL and the Holy Spirit really came alive in our conversation about it. It is a real feast for the believer. It is what they long for. I had a real sense that a corporate feast for the entire church was pending (for those who had made ready).

I enjoyed bringing the subject up after services here and there in various churches with believers who were filled, because the Spirit of God would manifest wonderfully. I believe the Tabernacles connection has a lot to do with this "dominion" exercise the church will come to know. It will be a result of this purging fire the Holy Spirit is sending.

According to Kat Kerr, the early church received the the baptism of the Holy Spirit AND fire at Pentecost. They turned the world upside down. They didn't take it over. The church was small though, and what began there continues to this day. This church in this time is to be baptized in fire, which according to Kerr is going to burn the worldly attributes out of the church and cause it to love itself in ways that will identify you as a believer to the world.

Other contributing visionaries have been Lester Sumrall who had a vision or dream of the church tied down like Gulliver, but that there was a coming a time where a great rising up of the church would take place.K

There was a prophetic word given at the turn of the 19th century about a mighty outpouring and harvest (which we still haven't seen). It has been enthusiastically embraced by many great leaders for a long time.

Kat Kerr (in relating what she actually saw and heard in Heaven), said that God showed her a part of Heaven's timeline and we had just entered into a new age, called "The Kingdom Age - Joel 2". It is the great fulfillment of what was begun on Solomon's Portico.

She was God told her that the church needed to stop the doom and gloom they've bought into by looking at the circumstances of the world. The darkness has grown greater, but the light shall be brighter and brighter. She said this the preparation time for this "habitation" (not a visitation).

Joy Dawn (intercessor) said that God told her that if this great outpouring occurred in the wineskins they currently are living in, that that anointing would destroy them. It brings a certain judgment with it. She said that the church needed to be healed of its many woundings and hurts.

God also told Kat that for a season, it will be popular on Earth to be a believer. The White House will experience problems and they will look to the church and its obvious favor for wisdom and help. It will be given!

The radical favor demonstrated by people moving in great anointings (according to Kerr) will be shown on media all over the world as signs and wonders, angelic sightings, etc. will be commonplace.

Very much like what Kathryn Kuhlman saw, hospitals will know revivals and people will rise from the dead. The media people will begin to get wind that God rewards holiness and obedience and will begin to censore (for a time) some of their offerings. People will demand to know the truth and as they see their friends get saved and filled, will DEMAND to know how to get saved.

One prophetic word described the great harvest that will follow as one that will burst the nets of every existing manmade organization to serve the flock.

As I have indicated in my "Kat Kerr" Heaven and Baptism in Fire threads, the Lord bore a STRONG witness to these things. Most everyone I've shared them with who were strong believers really heard it in the Spirit (not all). But although some cannot receive doctrine from one who has been to Heaven (not all believe you can do this), many DO bear witness to a great move of God coming on the Earth.

Areas mentioned that Kat saw, were anointings for believers in creative areas, in radical unique clothing, inventions, medical advances, music from Heaven and many other areas. These are examples of "cunning wisdom" as described in the work of the temple. It's for the children and we're all greater than John the Baptist. We've yet to fully realize that. It's all by grace.

The surge of the Holy Spirit will cause "dividing lines" to be more evident. Those who do not choose God will be drawn away into gross darkness. As Kat has said, there will be places specifically built for these to go sin (as the presence of God will not allow them to sin in these strongholds God is setting up in the spirit realm.)

Important to receive now about this because the preparation is vital to being able to walk in it. It will enable a greater depth in what you can receive. It will enable you to become a carrier.

This is not deception either (I'm convinced) and everything else in God's timetable will still take place. What people have seen of the later endtimes will still take place, but NOT NOW. God says to stop being defeat minded and begin to receive His mind concerning having Heaven move with you on the earth.

This is not MY version and I'm not looking for followers. I want to encourage those to enter in to this time and to realize that it won't be "business as usual". Leave behind all of the baggage of what some might have said (or what they thought some were saying) and do not listen to the enemy rise up in (even) believers as they criticize what don't understand, or have only partially heard.

 

[ToBeBlessed]

I found an article that quotes many resources and provides much more information (and truth!) sabout this topic. Since less than 50% of the article is below and the source is listed, it does not violate copyright. I take no credit for the words between the ** below.

I have wondered for years, how the AntiChrist (satan) would get 1/3 of the church apostate (This word means "defection." So a Christian or church that is living in apostasy is basically one that has defected from or deserted Christ and what they believe.) I honestly think that this is how he will do it and take a lot of jesus loving Christians away from their Lord and savior in deception.

Read pieces of this article below. At the bottom the url is listed.

**
Dominionists believe that Adam forfeited dominion over God’s creation and that it is our God-given mandate to take it back.

“Our theological bedrock is what has been known as Dominion Theology. This means that our divine mandate is to do whatever is necessary, by the power of the Holy Spirit, to retake the dominion of God’s creation which Adam forfeited to Satan in the Garden of Eden. It is nothing less than seeing God’s kingdom coming and His will being done here on earth as it is in heaven”. 1 C. Peter Wagner​

Those who hold Dominionist views believe scripture compels them to dominate, subdue, rule over, build up, tear down, and unite, all in the name of “Christ”. Dominionists transmute the concept of an invisible, spiritual and eternal “Kingdom of God” into a mandate to build an earthly political empire now. The fact that Jesus clearly stated that His Kingdom was NOT of this world is conveniently discarded.

“The Church has been foreordained of God to become that people who will become so glorified that we can bring Christ back to the earth. This glorified church must make the earth God’s footstool before Jesus can come again.” Earl Paulk​

They arrogantly believe that it is only when they have conquered and subdued the nations that Christ can return. However, which “Christ” are they building their New World Utopia for? If you substitute their use of “Jesus” and “Christ” for the word “Corporate Christ” you have essentially the same doctrine as the New Age Movement and other Gnostic doctrines. When the majority of today’s evangelicals start agreeing with mystic, Gnostic, and New Age doctrine, we have a problem; a significant one. Dominionists preach another gospel and another Jesus; plain and simple.

The Agenda Driven Church
The fact that this movement has evolved over the last 20 years into a driving political force, is due in part to the fact that participation in all levels of government is openly encouraged and promoted by Dominionist leaders. It is a symbiotic relationship; politicians need the Dominionists to garner votes and the Dominionists needs the politicians to further their ambitious totalitarian agenda.

It is a calculated coup d’état if you will, a subversive plot hidden in plain site. It is stealth politics, wrapped in patriotism and shrouded in Christian terms to mask its true agenda. The Christian double-speak makes it more palatable to its target audience, after all, what true Christian does not want a return to Biblical morality?

So well masked is this agenda that most Christians who are part of a Dominionist church would vehemently argue that they are not. They do not understand what is being fed to them and how masked in double-speak the subversive plot really is! It is for this very reason that the Dominionist political agenda is being executed in this country with military precision and most Christian churches are applauding its advance.

Riding the Beast
Since the antichrist seeks to be Christ, it makes perfect sense that he would mimic Christ’s truetheocracy by setting up his own Kingdom Now. Rest assured, true theocracy can only be achieved by Christ himself physically present; anything less will be fascism.

In case you have any doubt where I am going with this, let me state my position plainly. The Dominionist church is the harlot of the book of Revelation in the form of a quickly unifying theocratic world church. She is riding a political, New-World-Order, Beast that she will literally hold sway over. It is an intoxicating mixture of religion and politics, church and state, that will form the most oppressive and bloody regime this world has ever seen.

Rev 17:1-2 KJV
….. “Come, I will show you the judgment of the great harlot who sits on many waters, 2 with whom the kings of the earth committed fornication, and the inhabitants of the earth were made drunk with the wine of her fornication.”​

It is obvious that throughout scripture the Lord has frequently used the term woman to symbolize a church. The Harlot represents an ecumenical Dominionist church that has left her true Husband, and commit abominable acts with the kings of the earth. This Jezebel-type harlot is illicitly intimate with the world’s political elite, seeking their favor and wealth in her unquenchable quest for power.

Scripture states that she will be literally drunk on the blood of the martyred Christians. Like Jezebel before her, she too will pursue and destroy those who truly belong to God.

Rev 17:6, KJV
6 I saw the woman, drunk with the blood of the saints and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus. And when I saw her, I marveled with great amazement.
​

This end time blasphemous church will be tagged as the “Mother of Harlots” for no doubt her world wide network of daughter churches will likewise be harlots.

Rev 7:5, KJV
5 And on her forehead a name was written: MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND OF THE ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH.​

The documented plans of the Dominionists seem to line up perfectly with the biblical description of this despotic end time church. Since a rider generally exercises control over their mount, it is obvious that this blasphemous church will be given world-wide power of state. Her rule will be short lived however. The Beast will soon tire of her having the reigns and will turn, devouring her with fire.

A Transfer of Wealth
Dominionist leaders are very vocal in proclaiming a coming “transfer of wealth” from the wicked to the church. It is interesting that this blasphemous harlot of the book of Revelation is imbued with such astounding wealth? She is dressed in purple and scarlet, and glittering with gold, precious stones and pearls.

Rev. 17:4, KJV
4 The woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet, and adorned with gold and precious stones and pearls, having in her hand a golden cup full of abominations and the filthiness of her fornication.
​

Where would this obscene amount of wealth come from? Is this what the prosperity gospel is leading Christians toward? Is dominionism driving this agenda secretly?

Rick Joyner
Rick Joyner, author, self appointed prophet and founder of MorningStar Ministries describes the kind of freedom we can look forward to under the rule of the Dominionists.

“The kingdom of God will not be socialism, but a freedom even greater than anyone on earth knows at this time. At first it may seem like totalitarianism, as the Lord will destroy the antichrist spirit now dominating the world with “the sword of His mouth” and will shatter many nations like pottery. Rick Joyner​

However, fundamental to His rule is

II Corinthians 3:17,
“Now the Lord is the Spirit; and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.” Instead of taking away liberties and becoming more domineering, the kingdom will move from a point of necessary control while people are learning truth, integrity, honor, and how to make decisions, to increasing liberty so that they can.”​

…The kingdom will start out necessarily authoritative in many ways, or in many areas, but will move toward increasing liberty–so do all true churches and movements that are advancing toward the kingdom. You may have to be very controlling of toddlers, but the older they get, the more they can be trusted, and the more freedom they should have if they are going to develop into true maturity, which requires personal responsibility.8

It may feel like totalitarianism because it is totalitarianism!

Stealth Politics – Hiding the Elephant
Naturally, Dominionists aggressively cloak their goals of a bloody reformation and totalitarian rule. They fully recognize that advocating such a harsh and punitive theocracy with themselves standing in for God, would alarm all but the most radical.

Dominionist leader, Dr. George Grant’s theocratic views alarmed many when his video support of Michelle Bachmann for President appeared on the Bachmann campaign website. (see original article for this video

Of course Bachmann is in good company when it comes to supporting the Dominionist agenda. Rick Perry, Sarah Palin, Rick Santorum, Mike Huckabee, Jim Miller, Scott Walker, and even Ron Paul, all have strong ties to Dominionism.

Rev. Joe Fuiten, board member for the Family Policy Institute of Washington, a Focus on the Family state affiliate, supports the mass denationalization and deportation of non-Dominionists. He has been active in both “get out the vote” drives and voter registration drives for Dominionists. 12 This is not at all unusual as Dominionists want to be sure that elected politicians are either Dominionists themselves, or at the very least, sympathetic to their cause.

Patrick Henry College
Patrick Henry College is a Dominionist school in upstate New York, named for a founding father who opposed the Constitution and favored state-supported religion. Their goal is to take bright young home-schooled children, indoctrinate them, and then infuse them into the social and political fabric of the nation.13

“They must sign a statement that explicitly supports Christian Reconstructionism (and even carries this down to their “property” statement, declaring men essentially “agents” of “God’s dominion”).14

Patrick Henry is extremely influential and the overarching purpose of the college is to infuse government with a generation of Dominionists who believe it is their biblical mandate to establish God’s Kingdom Now. Many in George W. Bush’s administration were culled from Patrick Henry College and it remains a major source of republican interns.

“The purpose of Dominionist education ….. is not to educate or to train people to think, but to indoctrinate and in fact teach “thought-stopping” techniques that pretty much shut down any chance at logical debate.” 15

For an insightful look into the inner workings of this college please see the Documentary film- God’s Coming Army. It can be viewed free of charge (see url at bottom for link)

Joel’s Army Now Recruiting
The steady infiltration of hard core Dominionists into our government and military is troubling to say the least. It is evident that what has been referred to as Joel’s Army by many in this movement is taking a dangerous shift to real world warfare.

Joel’s Army is inexorably linked to the Dominionist movement most notably through the Apostolic and Prophetic movement and the (NAR) New Apostolic Reformation. It is not possible to bring the kind of radical reforms they advocate without war. It goes without saying that if you are converting whole nations and instituting Mosaic Law you are going to have to use force! This army is frequently referred to as a “New Breed” of “dread champions” who will purge the earth of its wickedness and police the nations. I find it more than a little disturbing that their theology includes a mandate for genocide.

“Paul Cain prophesied that the new breed would possess power to overcome the enemies of the gospel and strike terror into them, ‘There’s going to be an awesome, reverential fear and respect for the church because the church is going to regain her power, lose her restrictions, lose her weakness . . . you’re going to be called upon by presidents and kings of nations, heads of state. . . God is going to have his army and they are going to be a fearful bunch and they are going to go to every place on the face of the earth. . .” 16​

The term “Joel’s Army” is taken from a description of a mighty army of locusts in the second chapter of Joel that Dominionist say represents God’s end time army. However, let’s look closer at this “army” the Dominionists say will usher in the Kingdom of God.

According to Joel 2:1-11, this army is described as having the following characteristics:

* The inhabitants of earth tremble before them
* A fire goes before them
* The land in front of them is like the Garden of Eden but after they pass by it is desolate.
* They leap like flames and DEVOURETH
* They run like Mighty men and climb walls like men of war
* When they fall upon their swords and they are not wounded!
* They enter in the windows like thieves
* The earth quakes before them

I think it is fairly obvious that the “Kingdom of God” they are ushering in is not “revival”.
**


Want to see the full article yourself? Want to see the video's mentioned above? Want to see the the references and links?

URL: Taking Dominion - Do We Really Want God's Kingdom Now? - Stand Up For The Truth

 

[Alive_Again]

Dominionists believe that Adam forfeited dominion over God’s creation and that it is our God-given mandate to take it back.

We are to declare the kingdom and it is up to everyone else to receive it. We hold back the enemy in our efforts and praise and woship. As God directs, we go about to destroy the works of the enemy.

...our divine mandate is to do whatever is necessary, by the power of the Holy Spirit, to retake the dominion of God’s creation...
(Wagner)

Those who hold Dominionist views believe scripture compels them to dominate, subdue, rule over, build up, tear down, and unite, all in the name of “Christ”.

Let's be real. What is perceived is that it will be a work of the flesh (or the enemy) in the name of Christ.

"By the power of the Holy Spirit", meaning His direction and enabling. Even seen any of those words (above) in scripture? Sound like God?

Dominionists transmute the concept of an invisible, spiritual and eternal “Kingdom of God” into a mandate to build an earthly political empire now.

It's "at hand" (now). Who said anything about an "earthly empire"? Not Wagner (according to what you provided).

The fact that Jesus clearly stated that His Kingdom was NOT of this world is conveniently discarded.

It's not in the sense that it is not "OF" this world. The system of this world is not remoted related to what we have in the ways of man. His ways are higher than the heavens over us (that's pretty high!). It is nothing that man established.

“The Church has been foreordained of God to become that people who will become so glorified that we can bring Christ back to the earth. This glorified church must make the earth God’s footstool before Jesus can come again.” Earl Paulk

I've never heard of Earl before, but the earth is already God's footstool. "until I make Thy enemies". Also, it won't be "our doing" that will bring Christ back. However, there is a destroying of the works of the devil (making His enemies His footstool) that will enforce a positional truth already in place by the victory on the cross.

It is easy to read Earl's statement and assume that it might be the works of man that might accomplish this (quite impossible), but it will be the fulfillment of the church's role as the "Body of Christ" to preach the gospel to all nations ("bringing" the end). I have yet to hear anyone who preached dominion be of the opinion that it will be by the power of man in Jesus' name.

We should be clear though that dominion is for the church, it is "through Christ", by the power of the Spirit, according to the dictates of the Head (through the Body). It will not be complete until this earth is judged and the new earth is here. The church's role in dominion though is clear. It's just not absolute as far as reforming the world as some kind of offering to the Lord to come and receive.

It will be accomplished through a humble flock of sheep, exhibiting the Lion of Judah through them.

A few passages about the "footstool".

The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool. The LORD shall send the rod of thy strength out of Zion: rule thou in the midst of thine enemies. Thy people shall be willing in the day of thy power, in the beauties of holiness from the womb of the morning: thou hast the dew of thy youth.
Psalms 110:1-3

Being made so much better than the angels, as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they. But to which of the angels said he at any time, Sit on my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool?
Heb 1:4, 13

But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God; From henceforth expecting till his enemies be made his footstool.
Heb 10:12-13

At this point the implied "baggage" people seem to get on this is that it is implied to be absolute and only in His name (not fulfilling His dominion in His power, at His direction).

They arrogantly believe that it is only when they have conquered and subdued the nations that Christ can return.

“The Church has been foreordained of God to become that people who will become so glorified that we can bring Christ back to the earth. This glorified church must make the earth God’s footstool before Jesus can come again.” Earl Paulk

It might give the appearance of being a "we're gonna do this" for Him, but if you look at the root of the folks in "dominion" oriented theology, it will be in yielding to the Holy Spirit in anointing power. The church WILL in great measure, by the power of the Spirit, enforce positional truth. It won't be total, and the antichrist will still have his day (at the appointed time). It won't force anyone to do anything (like the crusades).

However which “Christ” are they building their New World Utopia for? If you substitute their use of “Jesus” and “Christ” for the word “Corporate Christ” you have essentially the same doctrine as the New Age Movement and other Gnostic doctrines.

That's moving pretty far and away from anything these people really say. It's about the Trinity and God having His day on the earth, everyone getting a chance to see His hand move on the earth. There's a lot coming down the pike and God's going to take the excuse of "There's not a God" out of the way and the spirit realm will be more manifest on the earth (both sides).

When the majority of today’s evangelicals start agreeing with mystic, Gnostic, and New Age doctrine, we have a problem; a significant one. Dominionists preach another gospel and another Jesus; plain and simple.

Here's what we want to avoid. That's not at all what's being preached. It's the same gospel (if you believe it) and the same Jesus.

Look at the scriptures. They are all there.

...participation in all levels of government is openly encouraged and promoted by Dominionist leaders. It is a symbiotic relationship; politicians need the Dominionists to garner votes and the Dominionists needs the politicians to further their ambitious totalitarian agenda.

Ok, we're on a witch hunt now! There's a red dot on someone's skin. Let's drown them and see if they float. If they do, they're guilty!

All of the BS that occurs on this world happens (at least to the extent that it does) because the church does not rise up and assume its proper place (I'm not exempt either.). The real "mind conditioning" is going on by the enemy to dissuade us away from the level of victory the death on the cross provided.

It is a calculated coup d’état if you will, a subversive plot hidden in plain site. It is stealth politics, wrapped in patriotism and shrouded in Christian terms to mask its true agenda. The Christian double-speak makes it more palatable to its target audience, after all, what true Christian does not want a return to Biblical morality?

Might as well be talking about "Zionism". It's clear that it's a misunderstanding of what is presented and then people running full hog with that misunderstanding. The adherents from the names listed, might even miss it in some area (although it really hasn't been seen here), but we're looking for the balance in this. There are too many mighty men and women of God getting in their spirits the call from above to prepare for this great move.

So well masked is this agenda that most Christians who are part of a Dominionist church would vehemently argue that they are not.

Might as well give up and confess?! It's so "masked" they're even preaching it in church! They're bringing it into the light.

They do not understand what is being fed to them and how masked in double-speak the subversive plot really is! It is for this very reason that the Dominionist political agenda is being executed in this country with military precision and most Christian churches are applauding its advance.

I hear similar things about the "strange fire" from the charismatics! It's a real plot (by God).

...it makes perfect sense that he would mimic Christ’s truetheocracy by setting up his own Kingdom Now. Rest assured, true theocracy can only be achieved by Christ himself physically present; anything less will be fascism.

I stand assured, but He doesn't have to be physically present to demonstrate dominion on the earth. It's balanced Christianity.

I'm glad you guys are digging this stuff up. It only confirms what I seemed to be getting about all of this, without any real knowledge. I'm benefiting from this discussion. It's sad though to see people jump to conclusions and "ride the beast" and bring up the conspiracy theory about what is really right there in the Word. But people add on to it a picture of the whole earth "taken over" and handed to Jesus on a silver platter. That's NOT what they're saying at all (according to what you're providing), and those I enjoy feeding on (who have that title given them) don't say anything like that either. It's a good thing! Let's not call good evil.

In case you have any doubt where I am going with this, let me state my position plainly. The Dominionist church is the harlot of the book of Revelation in the form of a quickly unifying theocratic world church.

Ok, I've seen enough. I'll just have to politely disagree without lynching anyone. You'll see part of that fulfillment in your lifetime and that it will be seen to be of God (of those who have a heart towards Him).

The scarey thing is, as God told Kat Kerr is that prophetic word in her book, "Most people won't recognize Me". Meaning, the church is removed in their perception of Who God really is and how He operates and what He wants to do.

...This Jezebel-type harlot is illicitly intimate with the world’s political elite, seeking their favor and wealth in her unquenchable quest for power.

Signing off on this. I appreciate the legwork you've provided here. I hope that you aren't offended by my simply stating the Word on this, and that it is a good thing and that you can rejoice in the hour (like God wants you to) and not embrace the "doom and gloom" bad news prevalent in the church today. God bles.

 

[ToBeBlessed]

We are to declare the kingdom and it is up to everyone else to receive it. We hold back the enemy in our efforts and praise and woship. As God directs, we go about to destroy the works of the enemy.
Let's be real. What is perceived is that it will be a work of the flesh (or the enemy) in the name of Christ.

"By the power of the Holy Spirit", meaning His direction and enabling. Even seen any of those words (above) in scripture? Sound like God?
It's "at hand" (now). Who said anything about an "earthly empire"? Not Wagner (according to what you provided).
It's not in the sense that it is not "OF" this world. The system of this world is not remoted related to what we have in the ways of man. His ways are higher than the heavens over us (that's pretty high!). It is nothing that man established.
I've never heard of Earl before, but the earth is already God's footstool. "until I make Thy enemies". Also, it won't be "our doing" that will bring Christ back. However, there is a destroying of the works of the devil (making His enemies His footstool) that will enforce a positional truth already in place by the victory on the cross.

It is easy to read Earl's statement and assume that it might be the works of man that might accomplish this (quite impossible), but it will be the fulfillment of the church's role as the "Body of Christ" to preach the gospel to all nations ("bringing" the end). I have yet to hear anyone who preached dominion be of the opinion that it will be by the power of man in Jesus' name.

We should be clear though that dominion is for the church, it is "through Christ", by the power of the Spirit, according to the dictates of the Head (through the Body). It will not be complete until this earth is judged and the new earth is here. The church's role in dominion though is clear. It's just not absolute as far as reforming the world as some kind of offering to the Lord to come and receive.

It will be accomplished through a humble flock of sheep, exhibiting the Lion of Judah through them.

A few passages about the "footstool".

The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool. The LORD shall send the rod of thy strength out of Zion: rule thou in the midst of thine enemies. Thy people shall be willing in the day of thy power, in the beauties of holiness from the womb of the morning: thou hast the dew of thy youth.
Psalms 110:1-3

Being made so much better than the angels, as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they. But to which of the angels said he at any time, Sit on my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool?
Heb 1:4, 13

But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God; From henceforth expecting till his enemies be made his footstool.
Heb 10:12-13

At this point the implied "baggage" people seem to get on this is that it is implied to be absolute and only in His name (not fulfilling His dominion in His power, at His direction).
It might give the appearance of being a "we're gonna do this" for Him, but if you look at the root of the folks in "dominion" oriented theology, it will be in yielding to the Holy Spirit in anointing power. The church WILL in great measure, by the power of the Spirit, enforce positional truth. It won't be total, and the antichrist will still have his day (at the appointed time). It won't force anyone to do anything (like the crusades).
That's moving pretty far and away from anything these people really say. It's about the Trinity and God having His day on the earth, everyone getting a chance to see His hand move on the earth. There's a lot coming down the pike and God's going to take the excuse of "There's not a God" out of the way and the spirit realm will be more manifest on the earth (both sides).
Here's what we want to avoid. That's not at all what's being preached. It's the same gospel (if you believe it) and the same Jesus.

Look at the scriptures. They are all there.
Ok, we're on a witch hunt now! There's a red dot on someone's skin. Let's drown them and see if they float. If they do, they're guilty!

All of the BS that occurs on this world happens (at least to the extent that it does) because the church does not rise up and assume its proper place (I'm not exempt either.). The real "mind conditioning" is going on by the enemy to dissuade us away from the level of victory the death on the cross provided.
Might as well be talking about "Zionism". It's clear that it's a misunderstanding of what is presented and then people running full hog with that misunderstanding. The adherents from the names listed, might even miss it in some area (although it really hasn't been seen here), but we're looking for the balance in this. There are too many mighty men and women of God getting in their spirits the call from above to prepare for this great move.
Might as well give up and confess?! It's so "masked" they're even preaching it in church! They're bringing it into the light.
I hear similar things about the "strange fire" from the charismatics! It's a real plot (by God).
I stand assured, but He doesn't have to be physically present to demonstrate dominion on the earth. It's balanced Christianity.

I'm glad you guys are digging this stuff up. It only confirms what I seemed to be getting about all of this, without any real knowledge. I'm benefiting from this discussion. It's sad though to see people jump to conclusions and "ride the beast" and bring up the conspiracy theory about what is really right there in the Word. But people add on to it a picture of the whole earth "taken over" and handed to Jesus on a silver platter. That's NOT what they're saying at all (according to what you're providing), and those I enjoy feeding on (who have that title given them) don't say anything like that either. It's a good thing! Let's not call good evil.
Ok, I've seen enough. I'll just have to politely disagree without lynching anyone. You'll see part of that fulfillment in your lifetime and that it will be seen to be of God (of those who have a heart towards Him).

The scarey thing is, as God told Kat Kerr is that prophetic word in her book, "Most people won't recognize Me". Meaning, the church is removed in their perception of Who God really is and how He operates and what He wants to do.
Signing off on this. I appreciate the legwork you've provided here. I hope that you aren't offended by my simply stating the Word on this, and that it is a good thing and that you can rejoice in the hour (like God wants you to) and not embrace the "doom and gloom" bad news prevalent in the church today. God bles.

What are you talking about?

This article is about they agenda some very HIGH-LEVEL and their wanting to implement Mosaic law (by force if necessary) DOMINIONISTS who believe in hatching their agenda to bring in God's Kingdom Now, that they will do whatever they need to do to make that happen! If that means selling a false, down graded view of their scheme, they will do that.

I think that most Christians involved are being DECEIVED. Hence, the article to bring to light what the REAL AGENDA IS, so Christians WILL NOT be used as pawns in their evil, unbiblical agenda.

Did you really read what was posted? Each word? Or did you skim it and then see something you 'thought' you needed to defend? I say 'thought' not in mean spirited-ness, but because you don't understand that this article is to SHOW THAT THEY WILL NOT STOP, EVEN to the point of corrupting and PERSECUTING Christians to reach their final sick plan.

They do not believe that Christ will return (very unbiblical) until they HAVE TAKEN THE WORLD FOR CHRIST, BY FORCE IF NEED BE.

I hope you see now.

In Christ.

 

[Alive_Again]

I copied and pasted the entire post, answering each paragraph. You should be able to tell this by the sentences I took individually and responded to them. I used scripture and reasurred where the balance was, and not what some people think they are saying.

It got kind of ridiculous after a while and then I stopped bothering because it was so obviously a witch hunt gone wild, that it no longer warranted a reply.

I don't believe at all that it is some high level thing by the devil. The devil is the one that is going to take the hit (first clue). It's in Jesus' name in the "power of the Holy Spirit" (second clue). It's for His glory (third clue).

It's accomplished by those who love Him and it ends the mindset of defeat and having to be whisked out that was planted in the minds of the flock. The enemy would never do this.

 

[jiminpa]

Wrong thread, sorry.