Doing your JOB

[Steezie]

This came up with the whole pharmacists refusing to fill birth control prescriptions and I saw it again in a thread in the News forum about doctors not disclosing treatment options that were against thier moral beliefs.

What really just blew my mind was there were people who were saying that its OK for someone to refuse to do thier job because of moral beliefs.

Why do certain professions get a free pass to refuse to do something that is thier JOB if they are morally against it? Its not like you had NO idea what you'd be doing when you took the job. If someone signs on to be a doctor, its a pretty good bet that one of your future patients may need birth control or an abortion. If you're going to object to reccomending those procedures, then why be a doctor? You KNOW when you train to be a pharmacist that you will, one day, have to fill birth control prescriptions. So if you are morally against filling them, why be a pharmacist?

I could understand if people were being asked to do something they felt was immoral and outside of thier normal duties, but pharmacists fill prescriptions. That is thier JOB.

I used to work for a daycare center. If I had said that something that was part of my job was against my moral beliefs, I would have been fired and rightly so. Either someone does thier job or they dont, and the ones that dont get canned.

So why are people throwing fits for being told to do thier jobs?

 

[Texas Lynn]

Pharmacists who refuse to fill birth control prescriptions should lose their licenses.

 

[Steezie]

Pharmacists who refuse to fill birth control prescriptions should lose their licenses.

I think that may be going a LITTLE far

I feel that it would be better to treat them the same way that you would treat anyone else who refused to do thier jobs for a non-valid reason. Warned then fired

 

[Pikachu]

I agree with the post stating they should lose their license. It is reasonable to assume if you are a pharmacist, and are licensed by the state you work in, that you will be expected to adhere to professional ethics. Those ethics would include dispensing prescriptions as written. People lose occupational licenses all the time for unethical behavior; lawyers and real estate agents are a couple of examples.

 

[Steezie]

I agree with the post stating they should lose their license. It is reasonable to assume if you are a pharmacist, and are licensed by the state you work in, that you will be expected to adhere to professional ethics. Those ethics would include dispensing prescriptions as written. People lose occupational licenses all the time for unethical behavior; lawyers and real estate agents are a couple of examples.

I dont see refusing to do your job as un-ethical. Taking a birth control prescription and filling it with sugar pills, THAT would be un-ethical.

 

[Annoula]

If someone signs on to be a doctor, its a pretty good bet that one of your future patients may need birth control or an abortion. If you're going to object to reccomending those procedures, then why be a doctor?

the father of medicine, Hippocrates, had a vow that all doctors had to take. in this vow was a line "i should not deprive from life".

doctors have all the right to stop a murder. any kind of murder or life deprivation.

I could understand if people were being asked to do something they felt was immoral and outside of thier normal duties, but pharmacists fill prescriptions. That is thier JOB.

i honestly can't comment on what pharmacists can or cannot do as birth control is not actually "killing" anything but only preventing the formation of life.

I used to work for a daycare center. If I had said that something that was part of my job was against my moral beliefs, I would have been fired and rightly so. Either someone does thier job or they dont, and the ones that dont get canned.

So why are people throwing fits for being told to do thier jobs?

i was working at a health food store and it was a common thing that some products would expiry on the shelves. a common practice there was to erase the "expired dates" and write newer dates on the products so that they could be sold.

one day my boss told me to do this myself (usually a colleuge would do it) and i replied "could you do it yourself?" my manner was not bad or aggressive. i was feeling very bad and my words sounded pretty strange. he said "ok". and then the colleuge did it again...

if we have no moral principles what do we have?
if you worked in a day care center and you were asked to poison a patient so that they can die (for whatever reasons they may had to do such a thing) would you do it?


i am taking it far from the prescription thing but i believe we need to question ourselves and think better some times...

 

[Steezie]

the father of medicine, Hippocrates, had a vow that all doctors had to take. in this vow was a line "i should not deprive from life".

doctors have all the right to stop a murder. any kind of murder or life deprivation.

So diseases caused by bacteria, viruses, tumors, and other living parts should be left un-treated as treating them would require you to kill them?

i was working at a health food store and it was a common thing that some products would expiry on the shelves. a common practice there was to erase the "expired dates" and write newer dates on the products so that they could be sold.

one day my boss told me to do this myself (usually a colleuge would do it) and i replied "could you do it yourself?" my manner was not bad or aggressive. i was feeling very bad and my words sounded pretty strange. he said "ok". and then the colleuge did it again...

if we have no moral principles what do we have?
if you worked in a day care center and you were asked to poison a patient so that they can die (for whatever reasons they may had to do such a thing) would you do it?

Those are examples of things that are not only highly illegal but far outside the normal job requirements.

A pharmacist being asked to fill a birth control prescription is NOT illegal nor is it outside his or her regular duties

 

[Annoula]

So diseases caused by bacteria, viruses, tumors, and other living parts should be left un-treated as treating them would require you to kill them?

when i say life deprivation i mean "human life deprivation"
a doctor is obliged to save the patient at any cost but not kill the patient for that cost.

i hope we are not equating a bacteria with a human fetus here?


and again i can't really comment about pharmacists and birth control prescriptions.
although i believe there will be pharmacists that will sell birth control so one can go to them.

i believe that if something is against our morals we should try not to do it.
there will always be people that will do it for their own personal reasons...

 

[Steezie]

when i say life deprivation i mean "human life deprivation"
a doctor is obliged to save the patient at any cost but not kill the patient for that cost.

And if that cost is an abortion? IE: Ectopic pregnancy

i hope we are not equating a bacteria with a human fetus here?

Both are simple organisms that require something to sustain them. Neither can survive (In most cases) unless something is there to support them.

i believe that if something is against our morals we should try not to do it.
there will always be people that will do it for their own personal reasons...

And I respect people who stand up for thier morals. The point is that doctors and pharmacists who are against birth control and abortion KNOW before they go into the game that they will have to be engaged in one or both and yet they go that way anyways knowing they'll have a problem.

Its like a man walking into a women's restroom then getting mad when he's asked to leave

 

[Annoula]

And if that cost is an abortion? IE: Ectopic pregnancy

if a pregnancy is life threatening for the mother i am not to judge or say what she or the doc has to do..
if the pregnancy is un-wanted due to societal issues, then i will be very sad that a new baby is threated not to have the chance to live.

Both are simple organisms that require something to sustain them. Neither can survive (In most cases) unless something is there to support them.

if the bacteria or the virus survives and flourishes in the body, then the body is going to be ill.
if the fetus survives it will come out of the body eventually and it will live a separate life.

And I respect people who stand up for thier morals. The point is that doctors and pharmacists who are against birth control and abortion KNOW before they go into the game that they will have to be engaged in one or both and yet they go that way anyways knowing they'll have a problem.

i think we see things pretty differently.
my point of view is, if i want to be a gynecologist that helps bring new life in the world it is absolutely contradictory for me to kill the being that i am supposed to bring to life.
can you understand my train of thought?

i am not trying to impose my thinking to you. just offer an alternative point of view.

 

[rosesandravens]

Don't the pharmacists realise they can end up harming a woman's health by refusing to fill her birth control script? Ugh. That is why it is unethical and immoral. Birth control isn't used exclusively for birth control - it's also used in the treatment of endometriosis, for excample, which is an extremely painful chronic disease.

Just imagine if a Scientologist (they are against all forms of psychiatric medication) refused to fill a schizophrenic customer's script for antipsychotics, they suffered from a relapse for not taking their meds and ended up harming themselves. Wouldn't that be unethical?

 

[MooCar93]

What really just blew my mind was there were people who were saying that its OK for someone to refuse to do thier job because of moral beliefs.

Why do certain professions get a free pass to refuse to do something that is thier JOB if they are morally against it?

I agree completely. This isn't like the example given by a previous poster of rewriting dates on expired products. I seriously doubt all stores (health food stores, no less!) do that as a general practice, and I'm also relatively certain that poster never thought she'd have to do that when she took the job. But BC is a pretty common medication for women to be on - it's not like being asked to fill a prescription should be a huge surprise to these people. Besides, not all women take the pill to prevent pregnancy. I had a friend in college whose periods were so horrifically agonizing that the only way she could get through each month was to take BC. It really seems to me sometimes that these pharmacists with "moral objections" (indeed, the whole anti-BC crowd) stop caring about women as soon as they reach menarche.

 

[RealityCheck]

Just imagine if a Scientologist (they are against all forms of psychiatric medication) refused to fill a schizophrenic customer's script for antipsychotics, they suffered from a relapse for not taking their meds and ended up harming themselves. Wouldn't that be unethical?

An excellent counter-example.

 

[MooCar93]

if the bacteria or the virus survives and flourishes in the body, then the body is going to be ill.
if the fetus survives it will come out of the body eventually and it will live a separate life.

So pregnancy can't cause a woman to feel horrible? I'd like to see you tell that to my mom... she nearly died having me.

 

[Texas Lynn]

i don't know what a convenience store is...

Small grocery store which also often sells gasoline, condoms, deli sandwiches, lottery tickets, porn, souveniers, etc. In older areas, called liquor stores or candy stores. In San Antonio, Texas, a lot of people still call them "Ice Houses" (because they sell ice in addition to the above stuff).

In the automobile age, the term convenience store appeared because people zip in and zip out, as opposed to a supermarket where the parking lot in huge and there's a wait to check out usually. Of course things like milk costs more at a convenience store. You pay for the convenience.

 

[Texas Lynn]

I think that may be going a LITTLE far

I feel that it would be better to treat them the same way that you would treat anyone else who refused to do thier jobs for a non-valid reason. Warned then fired

Firing's okay but the obligation is to serve the public, Hippocratic oath and all. I've read about some of these extremists who get in that position and refuse to provide birth control for single women and give them a verbal scolding in front of other customers. Those people don't belong in that business. A professional license is a privilege, not a right.

 

[Argent]

Shop elsewhere, or mail order.

This is just an example of liberals trying to force conservatives to live by liberal values.

 

[RealityCheck]

Shop elsewhere, or mail order.

This is just an example of liberals trying to force conservatives to live by liberal values.

Refusing to fill prescriptions, or tell patients to get medical advice from other doctors, is an example of fundamentalists trying to force others to live by their beliefs.

 

[MooCar93]

Shop elsewhere, or mail order.

This is just an example of liberals trying to force conservatives to live by liberal values.

Or, how about find a new career?

Sorry, I'm not going to be inconvenienced because of an extremist's moral beliefs.

And by the way, I'm a conservative, politically speaking.

 

[Ampoliros]

I'm not sure why anyone would take a job that they would occasionally have a moral problem in executing. If I have a moral problem with filling certain prescriptions, I shouldn't be working as a pharmacist. If I had a moral problem with eating meat, I shouldn't be involved in industries where I might have to kill animals for food.

If you can't do your job, you shouldn't have it.