Doesn't Hell give life TOO much meaning?

[leftrightleftrightleft]

Often people spend their lives searching for meaning and trying to figure out how their life has consequences and value and purpose.

If hell is real, then doesn't our life have a little bit too much meaning? This life is then the determinant of all eternity. It seems a little bit too much.

It also seems a little bit ridiculous that your beliefs determine your future. Why do beliefs matter at all? They're just thoughts inside your head; they're just biases produced by your upbringing and experiences.

And how does the historical crucifixion and resurrection of Jesus, an event that occurred 2000 years ago, have any bearing on my beliefs? I don't understand how to link an historical event to my experiences today.

People tend to say that Jesus' resurrection is the source of all their hope and meaning and even brings them to tears. An historical event evokes so much emotion in them. To me, its like having someone say that Aristotle makes them hungry. I just don't see the connection.

 

[firstpetertwonine]

I'm not sure I understand the question re: Hell having "too much" meaning. I think you might be saying that since it's only the next/after-life that matters, it negates what happens in this life?

I guess it would be a proper Christian response to say yes, it is the next life that is our primary concern but God wouldn't have bothered to create this one if it was completely meaningless... this life is the preparation for the next. Or, this life is the first stage of the next. We're the seeds right now; we will grow into the beautiful flower which is not yet seen, in the next one...

Now regarding beliefs having meaning - they're not just "thoughts" in your head, they're emotions - your love for God or your choice not to love Him. That's what the faith journey is about, is covenant relationship with God. He created us to begin with so we would seek Him to have relationship with him. (Acts 17:27) Your choice to follow or not follow isn't just an intellectual choice/belief in your head - it's an expression of love which matters to God. In other words, you ask, "what difference does it make whether I utter 'I believe in you, God'" versus not saying it? It makes the same difference as a husband saying to his wife "I love you" versus not saying it.

From a theological perspective, the crucifixion of Jesus matters because it was at the cross that the curse of death was destroyed and we were granted forgiveness of our sins. But if you are someone who's already been exploring Christianity you already know that of course. I think you are asking more from an apologetic perspective, what historically does the crucifixion mean for my belief/nonbelief, is that right? Well, it matters b/c without the crucifixion (and more importantly, the belief in a real, historical, physical, miraculous resurrection), why should I believe what Christianity has to say versus what any other religion has to say? Why should I trust that what the Bible says about God is true versus what the Quran says, or what the Bhagavad Gita says, or what the Lotus Sutra says? Now, you can't prove how a miracle happens, that's what makes it a miracle. But you can argue that a miracle did happen, and many of us think there's a pretty convincing case to be made that Jesus really rose from the dead the first Easter morning. If He did, He proved that He is who He says He is, and we can trust what He has to say about God, versus what any other faiths say.

Does this help?

 

[jehoiakim]

This is a blog I recently wrote recently I think it will you a different and intriguing perspective on Hell..

Recently I listened to a challenging 4 part series entitled “What about Heaven and Hell?” by D. Thomas Lancaster (ffoz.com). For many years I have known that Greek influence has shaped Christianity’s concept of Heaven and Hell, but I never knew how much or to what extent. Lancaster presents a very clear 1st century Jewish understanding of Heaven and Hell that adds a wonderfully rich and important context to our faith. If you are at all interested in the study it is available through First Fruits of Zion and is well worth the mere $25. If you plan to listen to the CDs be aware that the rest of this blog might be a spoiler. Some of the below has my own added thoughts, but the majority of it are concepts borrowed from Lancaster’s presentation.

Lancaster clarifies there are several Jewish terms and concepts that have been translated into modern translations as “Hell.” Sheol is one of them, and any Bible scholar will tell you it is better translated as a synonym for “grave” not as Hell. Sometimes our translations confuse the terms and label them all as “Hell.” Currently, modern translations have corrected some of the confusing portions by using more distinct terms (Sheol=Hades, Gehenna = Hell). An example of how we have misunderstood Sheol can be seen where Jesus says the gates of Hell shall not prevail against the church (Mt.16:18). Modern translations have corrected to Hell to Hades. Gates are not offensive, they are defensive, they bind. For a very long time we have assumed Jesus was talking about the power of Hell, Satan or his demons, but it is not. As Sheol it is telling us that “death” shall not prevail against the church. It foreshadows our future resurrection as Believers! Death has no power over us! Understanding the text as “Evil shall not prevail” although doctrinally correct, in actuality not what Christ meant. Suddenly that particular scripture makes a lot more sense! This same issue presents itself in the Apostles’ Creed where it says Jesus descended into Hell (after his death). Jesus descended not into Hell, but Hades/Sheol/the grave, but it is was interpreted poorly as Hell which is quite a different meaning.

Lancaster also points out that there is a lot of confusion in Christian circles whether Christians actually go directly to heaven when thy die, or if they wait to be raised from the dead. Paul says that to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord, and Jesus says to the thief on the cross “Today you will be with me in paradise.” Jesus also gives us the parable of the rich man and Lazarus and refers to Abraham’s Bosom or Lap as the “place of reward” Lazarus goes to prior to resurrection. It is however not heaven as we think of it. The rich man is in Hades, but in a portion of Hades that is under suffering and punishment. It seems clear from this description that this “place of punishment” in Hades is quite similar to Gehenna/Hell, but it is not. It is still part of Hades. It is interesting to note at this point that both the major schools of thought in traditional 1st century Judaism were that of Hillel and Shammai, and they both believed that Punishment in the afterlife was only temporary, similar to Purgatory. Jesus never corrects those traditional views and embraces other parts of those traditions openly. This suggests Christ may have believed the same, or at least that he didn’t have a problem with his followers believing in a temporary “place of punishment.” Both this “place of reward/paradise” and “place of punishment” are located in Sheol or Hades. They are a holding place until the resurrection of the dead.

The 1,000 year reign or Millennial kingdom is spoken about in the most detail in Revelation. After Armageddon and the 2nd coming, the 1st resurrection (of both living and the dead) occurs. Those who take part in the 1st resurrection are brought in to rule with Christ over the Earth for 1,000 years in their new and sinless bodies. We are told the rest of the dead (the unrighteous) are not raised to life until later. The biblical phrase “Kingdom of God” always refers to the Messianic Kingdom to come, not heaven as is popularly assumed.

The 2nd resurrection takes place after the Messianic Kingdom and involves all those who died during prior the Millennium and did not take part in the 1st Resurrection. All will be given new bodies. Lancaster points out that those who take part in the 2nd resurrection will be judged not upon belief in Christ, but on “what they had done” (Rev 20:12). Scripture tells us after that resurrection and judgment that death and Hades will be thrown into the “Lake of Fire” (which seems synonymous with term Gehenna/Hell). Lancaster suggests that some that had lived in the “place of punishment” might escape the “Lake of Fire,” otherwise it seems redundant to give the dead new bodies, judge them and put them back in a new “place of punishment,” Gehenna. He also references those 1st century Jewish traditions of a temporary “place of punishment.” Lancaster’s points are interesting; I cannot say I am convinced.

I believe I have an alternately plausible explanation. We know that death (Sheol) and Hades are thrown into the “Lake of Fire” after the 2nd resurrection and judgment, so I think it is safe to assume that the non-resurrected peoples who live during the Millennial Kingdom will still have to deal with physical death. When Christ comes to rule as Messiah, belief in “who Christ is” will no longer be debatable. It will be plain for all to see. We also know Satan will cause a rebellion at the end. People will still choose not to follow Christ and rebel even though they know full well who Christ is. Certainly these people must be judged according to their deeds because their situation is far different then those before the Millennial reign and as I mentioned before (belief in Christ’s identity is no longer debatable). That still does not rule out possible redemption for those who died before the Millennium and suffered in “the place of punishment,” but it does explain why those in the “Great White Throne Judgment” were judged according to “what they had done.”

According to Revelation after the Millennial Reign, the next destination is the New Heaven and the New Earth, which is what we more traditionally think of as Heaven. Lancaster makes some great points throughout the series on how Christian views of Heaven seem to fall short and disappoint many of us. I can recommend a book entitled “Heaven,” by Randy Alcorn if you are looking for reasons to actually be excited about going to Heaven. Alcorn is far more Traditional Christian in his outlook, but he gets most of the major concepts and creates a far more interesting picture of heaven then I have heard before. However, the book is, in my opinion, unnecessarily lengthy.

Lancaster briefly suggests the scriptures might be talking about The Lake of Fire as Annihilation for those left in “the place of punishment” after the Great White Throne Judgment, but he doesn’t go much further. I have expanded my own ideas on the matter. When Death and Hades are thrown into the “Lake of Fire” it seems to suggest that the Lake of Fire is something different then just a “place of punishment”. Why would God throw “a place of punishment” right back into a place that is just like “the place of punishment?” That indicates the “Lake of Fire” could be Annihilation. Mainstream Christianity may argue that this is not what the scriptures say, but I urge you to take a second look. I found these after some of my own devotions.

Malachi 4:1-3 God will "burn up" the wicked at the judgment, and they will be ashes under the sole of the feet of the righteous. "For, behold, the day cometh, it burneth as a furnace; and all the proud, and all that work wickedness, shall be stubble; and the day that cometh shall burn them up, saith Jehovah of hosts, that it shall leave them neither root nor branch...they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet in the day that I make, saith Jehovah of hosts"

Matthew 10:28 Both body and soul are destroyed in hell. "And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell."

John 3:16 Those who don't believe in Jesus shall perish and not receive eternal life.
(according to Traditional Christian beliefs the non believers also have eternal life, it is just eternal life in Hell. That is inconsistent with this verse)

1 Corinthians 15:12-49 Only those who belong to Christ will be raised with imperishable, immortal bodies, all others perish as a man of dust.

Annihilationists argue that the word translated “everlasting” in many verses about hell could be translated “unquenchable.” In the New Heaven and the New Earth we are told that God will wipe away every tear from our eyes and there will be no more sorrow and no more death. It is hard to imagine how those that are in heaven could be comforted knowing that relatives, and other loved ones would be suffering in Hell. If, however, they cease to exist and are annihilated, it makes it far easier to accept because there is an end to their suffering. It also speaks of the mercy of God. Annihilationism is not as obscure an interpretation as some might believe. Two very well known modern Biblical Scholars, John Stott and Ben Witherington III are proponents of this theory. Supposedly some of the early church fathers such as Irenaeus, Justin Martyr and Ignatius may have suggested the concept as well.

Interesting huh?!

 

[candle glow]

It also seems a little bit ridiculous that your beliefs determine your future. Why do beliefs matter at all? They're just thoughts inside your head; they're just biases produced by your upbringing and experiences

Sorry, but I think I am not getting you. It seems like common sense that our thoughts (or, what we believe) is what determines our future, because our decision making process is based on those factors (i.e. thoughts and beliefs).

I don't understand how to link an historical event to my experiences today.

I really do think you are just not communicating your thoughts properly here. It's hard for me to believe that you cannot see any link between how what people have learned/taught in the past relates to our experiences today.

People tend to say that Jesus' resurrection is the source of all their hope and meaning and even brings them to tears. An historical event evokes so much emotion in them.

That depends on what the resurrection means in practical terms. Why do people get emotional about it?

 

[elman]

Often people spend their lives searching for meaning and trying to figure out how their life has consequences and value and purpose.

If hell is real, then doesn't our life have a little bit too much meaning? This life is then the determinant of all eternity. It seems a little bit too much.

It also seems a little bit ridiculous that your beliefs determine your future. Why do beliefs matter at all? They're just thoughts inside your head; they're just biases produced by your upbringing and experiences.

And how does the historical crucifixion and resurrection of Jesus, an event that occurred 2000 years ago, have any bearing on my beliefs? I don't understand how to link an historical event to my experiences today.

People tend to say that Jesus' resurrection is the source of all their hope and meaning and even brings them to tears. An historical event evokes so much emotion in them. To me, its like having someone say that Aristotle makes them hungry. I just don't see the connection.

When Jesus separated the sheep and the goats--Matt 25:31 and following it was not on the basis of any intellectual belief--only on loving actions or failure to have loving actions. When Jesus was ask how we could inherit eternal life, He answered love. This love was not about belief but about action or failure to act as He then demonstrated in the parable of the Good Samaritan. Therefore I don't agree that our mental beliefs determine our eternal future. I think our loving actions are what determins our eternal future. You talk about this life meaning too much. It may be the only one we have, so if that results in it meaning to much, that may just be the way it is.

 

[Faulty]

And how does the historical crucifixion and resurrection of Jesus, an event that occurred 2000 years ago, have any bearing on my beliefs? I don't understand how to link an historical event to my experiences today.

That's a bit of an odd statement...

Many years ago, man found his way to the North American continent. After that, your nation Canada was formed. Then people lived and worked and shuffled around a bit. Afterwards, your parents met and you popped out of your mother at some point later.

Do you believe any of these happened? Have any of these historical events impacted your experiences at any point to date? If so, then you can link historical events to your experiences today just fine. Hope that helps a bit.

 

[GrayAngel]

Often people spend their lives searching for meaning and trying to figure out how their life has consequences and value and purpose.

If hell is real, then doesn't our life have a little bit too much meaning? This life is then the determinant of all eternity. It seems a little bit too much.

Too much, too little, they're value statements based on perspective. There are really only two possibilities that I know of for the possible worth of life: infinite or none. If we will one day die and cease to exist, it will be as if we had never existed. And eventually, all life will have to come to an end. If we end up (or rather we don't) in the same place no matter what we do, then our lives have no meaning.

On the other hand, if our lives lead to an eternal afterlife, then our lives here on earth are of infinite importance. What we do here will affect our existence for eternity. Whether that's too much or just perfect depends on the way you think of it.

It also seems a little bit ridiculous that your beliefs determine your future. Why do beliefs matter at all? They're just thoughts inside your head; they're just biases produced by your upbringing and experiences.

Beliefs don't determine our future. What we believe only matters if it leads to faith. But faith, as you know, is dead if it isn't proven by good works. The thoughts in your head are only good if they lead to action. And what actions are we expected to take?

1. Love God with all your heart, soul, and mind.

2. Love people like you love yourself (which, for most of us, is a lot).

And how does the historical crucifixion and resurrection of Jesus, an event that occurred 2000 years ago, have any bearing on my beliefs? I don't understand how to link an historical event to my experiences today.

People tend to say that Jesus' resurrection is the source of all their hope and meaning and even brings them to tears. An historical event evokes so much emotion in them. To me, its like having someone say that Aristotle makes them hungry. I just don't see the connection.

On our own, we cannot do anything to earn Heaven. Heaven is perfection, and we will always be less than perfect. The only way to justify our entry into Heaven is if we have a substitute to take the price of our faults for us.

This is where Jesus comes in. He lived the perfect life we couldn't live, and He suffered and died unjustly in our place. By having faith to live in His footsteps, we are justified.

 

[elopez]

If hell is real, then doesn't our life have a little bit too much meaning? This life is then the determinant of all eternity. It seems a little bit too much.

I have always thought this, though not quite in the context you're putting it. Yes, the fact that this finite life bears all the weight into our immortal life is absolutely terrifying. I think it should be a terrifying idea, not because it could be a persuasive factor (I don't think it honestly is), but because it is naturally terrifying. I am not sure whether that means it gives our lives too much meaning, but even if it does, how is that a bad thing as you're implying it to be?

It also seems a little bit ridiculous that your beliefs determine your future. Why do beliefs matter at all? They're just thoughts inside your head; they're just biases produced by your upbringing and experiences.

You believe the sun is going to rise in the morning, and I am betting that determines your future in some fashion. Beliefs matter because they are more than just thoughts and more than just biased opinions. Those thoughts are something we take to heart, something that we live our life by.

And how does the historical crucifixion and resurrection of Jesus, an event that occurred 2000 years ago, have any bearing on my beliefs? I don't understand how to link an historical event to my experiences today.

Well, even if you cannot understand how a historical event has significance to people in the present doesn't mean there can be no such significance. The historicity of the automobile, I am sure, can definitely be linked to your experiences today.

People tend to say that Jesus' resurrection is the source of all their hope and meaning and even brings them to tears. An historical event evokes so much emotion in them. To me, its like having someone say that Aristotle makes them hungry. I just don't see the connection.

I don't think someone saying Aristotle makes them hungry is the same as saying Christ' resurrection gives one hope and meaning, as the former statement makes no sense whatsoever unless of course that person had cannibalistic tendencies. If you make that comparison you'll never see the connection, but then again that is incomparable...

 

[candle glow]

The interesting thing about "hell" is that it really doesn't matter what it is. Eating only ice cream for the next 10, or 100 or 1000 years would be hell.

The real hell is separation from God. I think that is the real meaning of hell, quite aside from whatever physical pain may be involved in it. Sure, the threat of pain is often the only thing we respond to, but I think there is something more to hell than physical pain (similar to what someone was suggesting earlier about annihilation).

That has a lot of meaning for us here. If our choices alienate us from God (i.e. we choose different paths) in this life, then he won't want to be with us in whatever happens after this life.

 

[Emmy]

Dear candle glow. May I just give the most important facts? We are on Earth to learn to become as God wants us to be: 1) love God with all our hearts, with all our souls, and with all our minds. 2) Love our neighbour as ourselves. ( Matthew 22) You are right, Hell is being without God`s Love and Light. And since we have free will, it is up to us to choose With God, or Without God. To be with God is to love God with all our beings, and to be without God is to go our own way. God is Love and God wants to live eternity with loving children/sons and daughters. To be without God is: In Outer Darkness, without God`s Love or Light. Jesus died that we might live, Jesus paid the prize which God`s Law demanded. No-one was left without sin or transgression, and if Jesus had not paid the sin-debt we owed, only God knows what would have happened to us, it does not bear thinking about. Jesus is our Redeemer and The Way, and Jesus will some day, lead us back to God where we came from. A Christian`s sword is Love, candle glow, Love will overcome all, and change all for the better, all we do, or say, or even stand for, should be done from selfless love, with no conditions tagged on. I say this with love. Greetings from Emmy, your sister in Christ.

 

[bling]

You have only one simple objective while here on earth: Obtain and grow Godly type Love so you can “Love God and secondly others with all your heart, soul, mind, and energy.”
Everything has been arranged for all mature adults that are just slightly willing to accept such Love to obtain such Love. Every mature adult do stuff that will hurt others and they feel bad about this. These transgressions burden their conscience, so all mature adults seek relieve, but at the same time are distracted by selfish pleasures that do not relief their conscience but cause added hurting of other (selfish activities). Turning to a benevolent creator will result in instant forgiveness and we know “…he that is forgiven much will Love much…” so the person obtains Love through that humble acceptance of the creator’s help (Charity).
Continued refuse of the creator’s help (not wanting unconditional Love in the form of forgiveness) means the person will never change and thus would not be happy in heaven where only Godly type Love is found.

 

[Sophrosyne]

Annihilationists argue that the word translated “everlasting” in many verses about hell could be translated “unquenchable.” In the New Heaven and the New Earth we are told that God will wipe away every tear from our eyes and there will be no more sorrow and no more death. It is hard to imagine how those that are in heaven could be comforted knowing that relatives, and other loved ones would be suffering in Hell. If, however, they cease to exist and are annihilated, it makes it far easier to accept because there is an end to their suffering. It also speaks of the mercy of God. Annihilationism is not as obscure an interpretation as some might believe. Two very well known modern Biblical Scholars, John Stott and Ben Witherington III are proponents of this theory. Supposedly some of the early church fathers such as Irenaeus, Justin Martyr and Ignatius may have suggested the concept as well.

Interesting huh?!

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[candle glow]

Hi Emmy, Thanks for sharing those thoughts. I found them inspiring. However, I feel one comment from you in particular is worth commenting on further.

A Christian`s sword is Love, candle glow, Love will overcome all, and change all for the better, all we do, or say, or even stand for, should be done from selfless love, with no conditions tagged on.

I'm not sure why you addressed these comments to me in particular, but I am concerned about the "unconditional love" aspect you shared about. Bling also said something similar:

Continued refuse of the creator’s help (not wanting unconditional Love in the form of forgiveness) means the person will never change and thus would not be happy in heaven where only Godly type Love is found.

Ordinarily I don't feel unconditional love is real. There really ARE conditions that God has placed on his followers. Even in Bing's comments, he talks about a need to change, which is a condition to receive God's unconditional love "in the form of forgiveness".

Throughout the gospels there are many commands of Jesus; expectations for how his followers should live and act throughout their lives. These are the values of the Kingdom of Heaven. If people do not at least attempt to conform to these values then it is likely they will be rejected, in much the same way an aspiring mechanic would be rejected from employment if he/she never learned how to work on cars.

It's not that the manager of the garage does not love the aspiring mechanic, but just that it would be stupid of him to hire someone who doesn't want to do the job.

There is an article on my website (the address is located in my profile) called "unconditional love" in the "milk vs. meat" section which goes into more detail.

 

[SolomonVII]

Often people spend their lives searching for meaning and trying to figure out how their life has consequences and value and purpose.

If hell is real, then doesn't our life have a little bit too much meaning? This life is then the determinant of all eternity. It seems a little bit too much.

......

This is a really great question.
I would have to answer yes, absolutely. When consequences are eternal, the meaning of life becomes absolute.