Psalm 19:4b-5 (ESV):
In [the heavens] He has set a tent for the sun,
which comes out like a bridegroom leaving his chamber,
and, like a strong man, runs its course with joy.
According to the geocentrist interpretation:
- There is a dwelling place for the sun in the heavens.
- When the sun rises, it physically leaves this dwelling place. (It "comes out".)
- As the day passes, it physically moves. (It "runs its course with joy".)
- At night it returns to its dwelling place.
According to the heliocentrist interpretation:
- There is a place for the sun in the heavens;
- But the sun's rising has absolutely nothing to do with its leaving that place;
- The sun's passage across the sky has absolutely nothing to do with any physical movement of the sun;
- And the sun's disappearance at night has absolutely nothing to do with the sun returning to where it started.
Aren't these both diametrically opposite meanings? How can the geocentric and heliocentric views possibly mean the same thing?
One thing I really have to compliment you on Tee is your ability to delve into Scripture (btw, in this regard you are much different than the typical TE) and pull out some interesting stuff.
Yet, on the other hand by doing so you also can take the simple and make it far more complex than it ever was intended to be.
I have to admit, when TEs typically post their reasoning I'm usually cynical and not very receptive to what they are trying to say. There are many reasons for this but I admit this is wrong and that shouldn't be my first response. I'm trying to do better.
I was also quite pleased that you selected this Psalm because it is actually my favorite and I know it very well. That also presented somewhat of a problem because I had preconceived ideas implanted as to what it said and meant. So, rather than give my initial response to your hypothesis I thought I would run this by someone totally outside of the discussion, someone who I respected and thought highly of yet had no stake in the outcome. My wonderful wife.
I asked her, who's admittedly more simple and less complex when approaching Scripture, to first read the entire Psalm and then comment on it. After that I asked her if the meaning of the Psalm might in any way be affected if she read it from a geocentric point of view. Without saying it, she looked at me as if I somehow had gone off the deep end for asking such a strange question. I explained to her how the verses in question, if interpreted differently like seeing them from a geocentric or heliocentric view, depending on your view, could possibly alter their meaning. She placated my request and truly tried to see both points of view but in the end she told me that I'm thinking into this thing far too much and not allowing the text to speak to me as God intended. Undeterred I continued to press her for an answer, and she finally told me the meaning didn't change whether it was geo or helio centric and she couldn't for the life of her understand how people could actually want to discuss this to that level. I smiled and thanked her.
Now as for my own assessment, well I was at first going just leave it at that and agree with her limited and somewhat shallow interpretation. But I also knew that would never suffice in our discussion, so I prepared something a little more verbose.
But first I wanted to say you never truly answered the question. I wanted to know how the message or meaning from God could be altered by seeing a passage from a geo or helio centric point of view. Even in your example you didn't do that. Remember I wanted to know how God's message or meaning changes, not our interpretation of certain words or phrases. Your example didn't show how the meaning of this Psalm, what God intended for us to walk away with, changes depending on how you saw the relationship between the earth and the sun. Now if I'm wrong please correct me and please be specific showing how the meaning or message from God is altered by our viewpoint of geo or helio centricism.
Not to dismiss your example outright, because it does present differences, but I would submit that only the truly few would ever see them in any such way as you presented it. The vast majority would see this Psalm as the Hebrew poetry that it is, which is a form of parallel poetry. These first few verses of the Psalm are the natural revelation of God in the physical world in which we live. More specifically in your highlighted verses the role of the sun in our world. Then later in the Psalm they are contrasted to the special revelation of God in His writing or Word. In the verses you highlight we have the passage of the sun, likened to the bridegroom coming out of his wedding chamber or tent in the morning and how that power comes back each and every day maintaining life as we know it. In the later verses (special revelation) we see how God uses this as a metaphor to demonstrate how His Word is just like the sun, perfect and mighty to do everything He intends; how it is complete and endures just as the sun does. How desirable it is for life. So now matter how you see the sun, whether geocentric or heliocentric, this basic meaning never changes.
If that's the best you can do then I'm sorry, but like I said, whether we live in a geo or helio centric world is of no importance to how we are to interpret God's Word.
