Does Water Baptism Save You? Is it Required?

[sheetiron]

There has been much discussion/debate around the subject of Water Baptism and whether or not it is required. For those who say yes, some may ask the question, "Does Water Baptism save you?" As always, I believe it is important to look at the Scriptures. I have one in particular which I believe clearly answers this question. 1 Peter 3:20-21(NIV)italics added- "who disobeyed long ago when God waited patiently in the days of Noah while the ark was being built. In it only a few people, eight in all, were saved through water, and this water symbolizes baptism that now saves you also—not the removal of dirt from the body but the pledge of a good conscience toward God. It saves you by the resurrection of Jesus Christ" I think the verse is very clear. Water Baptism does indeed save us. However, it is not the water passing over our flesh that saves us. It is the pledge, response, affirmation, declaration that we are making when we get baptized. That declaration to repent; to turn from sin, and to turn to Christ. Now some say that you can make that declaration and do every thing that your doing in baptism, without getting baptized. I say, not according to the Bible.
Acts 2:37-38(NIV) "When the people heard this, they were cut to the heart and said to Peter and the other apostles, "Brothers, what shall we do?" Peter replied, "Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit." Here we see the first time in Christian History where someone asked the question "what should we do?" The first time someone asked how to receive Christ, how to get saved, be Born Again, become a Christian, whatever you want to call it, notice what the response was not. It was not, "with every head bowed, and every eye closed, raise your hand and someone will come pray with you", or "come to the front and meet me at the alter", or "Repeat this 'Sinners Prayer' after me". It was, "Repent, and be Baptized".

 

[heymikey80]

There has been much discussion/debate around the subject of Water Baptism and whether or not it is required. For those who say yes, some may ask the question, "Does Water Baptism save you?" As always, I believe it is important to look at the Scriptures. I have one in particular which I believe clearly answers this question. 1 Peter 3:20-21(NIV)italics added- "who disobeyed long ago when God waited patiently in the days of Noah while the ark was being built. In it only a few people, eight in all, were saved through water, and this water symbolizes baptism that now saves you also—not the removal of dirt from the body but the pledge of a good conscience toward God. It saves you by the resurrection of Jesus Christ" I think the verse is very clear. Water Baptism does indeed save us. However, it is not the water passing over our flesh that saves us. It is the pledge, response, affirmation, declaration that we are making when we get baptized.

Well, yes, it's this. But if we're looking at where the power to save comes from -- it comes from Christ, not from baptism, nor from confession. Peter's not writing a theological thome on the role of baptism. Baptism saves because baptism is the answer of a good conscience to God.

What about other answers of a good conscience to God?

Finally, Peter doesn't say this is the only way to be saved.

So baptism is normative -- we're baptized normally in the process of being saved. But not causative -- baptism itself doesn't cause salvation.

That declaration to repent; to turn from sin, and to turn to Christ. Now some say that you can make that declaration and do every thing that your doing in baptism, without getting baptized. I say, not according to the Bible.

Well, why not? There're people in the Bible in unusual circumstances who were not baptized, yet who were saved.

Acts 2:37-38(NIV) "When the people heard this, they were cut to the heart and said to Peter and the other apostles, "Brothers, what shall we do?" Peter replied, "Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit." Here we see the first time in Christian History where someone asked the question "what should we do?" The first time someone asked how to receive Christ, how to get saved, be Born Again, become a Christian, whatever you want to call it, notice what the response was not. It was not, "with every head bowed, and every eye closed, raise your hand and someone will come pray with you", or "come to the front and meet me at the alter", or "Repeat this 'Sinners Prayer' after me". It was, "Repent, and be Baptized".

Yes. Again, the normal response of a person is to be baptized in visible acceptance of God's New Covenant. That's in view, I think. But the reality is that salvation comes from Christ. That acceptance of the New Covenant by receiving the sign of water, that's the normal way to do it. There are simply exceptions.

We often seem to think anything that's not necessary can be dispensed with. But God has instituted baptism as the sign to bring a person into covenant with Him. And if we wish not to offend the Founder of the Covenant, we should follow its prescribed institution.

 

[sheetiron]

Well, yes, it's this. But if we're looking at where the power to save comes from -- it comes from Christ, not from baptism, nor from confession. Peter's not writing a theological thome on the role of baptism. Baptism saves because baptism is the answer of a good conscience to God.

What about other answers of a good conscience to God?

Finally, Peter doesn't say this is the only way to be saved.

So baptism is normative -- we're baptized normally in the process of being saved. But not causative -- baptism itself doesn't cause salvation.

Well, why not? There're people in the Bible in unusual circumstances who were not baptized, yet who were saved.

Yes. Again, the normal response of a person is to be baptized in visible acceptance of God's New Covenant. That's in view, I think. But the reality is that salvation comes from Christ. That acceptance of the New Covenant by receiving the sign of water, that's the normal way to do it. There are simply exceptions.

We often seem to think anything that's not necessary can be dispensed with. But God has instituted baptism as the sign to bring a person into covenant with Him. And if we wish not to offend the Founder of the Covenant, we should follow its prescribed institution.

I was not proposing that Baptism itself saves us. What I was trying to say that in response to the question "How do I become a Christian?" Being Baptized is necessary and important part of it. Not a volentary ritual that is highly recommended and emphasized, but a mandated command of the Master Jesus, and the scriptures. When I look at the Scriptures, I find nothing about "every head bowed, every eyed close... raise your hand, and someone will come pray for you", or "come down to the front and repeat this prayer after me" In Acts 2:37 the question is asked, "What shall we do?" The answer is pretty clear, Acts 2:38 "Repent and be Baptized... receive the Holy Spirit" Every time someone asks how to be saved, born again, become a Christian, etc; this should be our answer. Not this stuff about alter calls and a "sinners prayer". Thats "traditions of men" and not the Word of God.

 

[heymikey80]

Yes, well, it's not stated as necessary in all cases in Scripture. Romans 10:10-13 comes to mind. "Call on the name of the Lord and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead and you will be saved." (paraphrase, see text)

Is it commanded? Yes, it's in imperitive from the Apostles. But whether it's absolutely necessary to salvation? I don't see it. Sometimes it's there. Sometimes it's not.

The critical component is, however, to call out to Christ for salvation, believing Christ was raised from the dead. That's the conscientious answer to God that Peter is pointing out. That's the acceptance of the gospel. The ritual washing of baptism is instituted by God, and it would be a serious error to simply discard such a command. But it is not so demanded by God that's it's necessary to salvation.

 

[depthdeception]

Does Water Baptism Save You?

Yes.

Is it Required?

No.

 

[spiritwarrior37]

If baptism is necessary for salvation, then Paul is the only one of the apostles to be saved. There is no scripture where the others were baptised. Do we need to be baptised? Yes, because Christ commanded it. Does it save us? No. We are saved by the Blood of Jesus. Did Jesus not tell Nicodemus that no man can see the kingdom of God unless he is born again? He said nothing about baptism.

 

[Epiphoskei]

If baptism is necessary for salvation, then Paul is the only one of the apostles to be saved. There is no scripture where the others were baptised.

That's a rather tenuous argument from silence. By the same standard, we could argue that Sampson was the only judge with hair. There's no scripture that says any of the others did.

 

[sheetiron]

If baptism is necessary for salvation, then Paul is the only one of the apostles to be saved. There is no scripture where the others were baptised.

Very sketchy argument.

Do we need to be baptised? Yes, because Christ commanded it. Does it save us? No.

Then why does the Bible say it does? 1 Peter 3:21(NIV) "and this water symbolizes baptism that now saves you also—not the removal of dirt from the body but the pledge of a good conscience toward God. It saves you by the resurrection of Jesus Christ" Not saying that the actual water itself is saving us, but that what we are doing during Baptism is through which we are saved.

We are saved by the Blood of Jesus. Did Jesus not tell Nicodemus that no man can see the kingdom of God unless he is born again? He said nothing about baptism.

John 3:5(NIV) "Jesus answered, "I tell you the truth, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless he is born of water and the Spirit."

 

[sungaunga]

There has been much discussion/debate around the subject of Water Baptism and whether or not it is required. For those who say yes, some may ask the question, "Does Water Baptism save you?" As always, I believe it is important to look at the Scriptures. I have one in particular which I believe clearly answers this question. 1 Peter 3:20-21(NIV)italics added- "who disobeyed long ago when God waited patiently in the days of Noah while the ark was being built. In it only a few people, eight in all, were saved through water, and this water symbolizes baptism that now saves you also—not the removal of dirt from the body but the pledge of a good conscience toward God. It saves you by the resurrection of Jesus Christ" I think the verse is very clear. Water Baptism does indeed save us. However, it is not the water passing over our flesh that saves us. It is the pledge, response, affirmation, declaration that we are making when we get baptized. That declaration to repent; to turn from sin, and to turn to Christ. Now some say that you can make that declaration and do every thing that your doing in baptism, without getting baptized. I say, not according to the Bible.
Acts 2:37-38(NIV) "When the people heard this, they were cut to the heart and said to Peter and the other apostles, "Brothers, what shall we do?" Peter replied, "Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit." Here we see the first time in Christian History where someone asked the question "what should we do?" The first time someone asked how to receive Christ, how to get saved, be Born Again, become a Christian, whatever you want to call it, notice what the response was not. It was not, "with every head bowed, and every eye closed, raise your hand and someone will come pray with you", or "come to the front and meet me at the alter", or "Repeat this 'Sinners Prayer' after me". It was, "Repent, and be Baptized".

Did the Thief get baptized?

 

[DeaconDean]

Since the Church of Christ and so many others place an intrinsic value on Acts 2:38 and baptism, lets examine this.

"Πέτρος δὲ πρὸς αὐτούς μετανοήσατε φησίν καὶ βαπτισθήτω ἕκαστος ὑμῶν ἐπὶ τῷ ὀνόματι Ἰησοῦ Χριστοῦ εἰς ἄφεσιν τῶν ἁμαρτιῶν ὑμῶν καὶ λήμψεσθε τὴν δωρεὰν τοῦ ἁγίου πνεύματος" -Acts 2:38 (GNT)

"Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost." -Acts 2:38 (KJV)

Our primary focus will be on one word and one word only.

Look at the Greek word "εἰς". In the Greek, it is a conjunction that connects the previous section with the next.

It is translated in many different ways:

Three times in Romans 4, the preposition “eiV” (ice) is used. In verse 5: “his faith is counted “eiV = for” righteousness.” In verse 9: “faith was reckoned to him “eiV = for” righteousness. In verse 22: “it was imputed to him “eiV = for” righteousness.” In each of these verses, the preposition “eiV” never means “in the stead of”, but signifies “towards, in order to, with a view to”, and in rare circumstances, it can mean “because of.” It has a uniform usage as “into” or “unto.” The clearest meaning in this passage of scriptures is found in verse 10: “with the heart man believeth unto “eiV” righteousness”: that the believing heart reaches out towards and lays hold of Christ Himself.

The Doctrine of Justification, Restated and Reviewed, By: me

However, in this section, it is rendered as "for".

1) into, unto, to, towards, for, among

AV — into 573, to 281, unto 207, for 140, in 138, on 58, toward 29, against 26, misc 322

http://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/Lexicon.cfm?strongs=G1519

Here is another verse:

"ἄνδρες Νινευῖται ἀναστήσονται ἐν τῇ κρίσει μετὰ τῆς γενεᾶς ταύτης καὶ κατακρινοῦσιν αὐτήν ὅτι μετενόησαν εἰς τὸ κήρυγμα Ἰωνᾶ καὶ ἰδοὺ πλεῖον Ἰωνᾶ ὧδε." -Mt. 12:41 (GNT)

"The men of Nineveh shall rise in judgment with this generation, and shall condemn it: because they repented at the preaching of Jonas; and, behold, a greater than Jonas is here." -Mt. 12:41 (KJV)

Here is our Greek word again, however, in this instance it is rendered "at".

The construction of the verse in Acts 2:38 misleads people to believe that baptism is for the remission of sins. "...for the remission of sins" In other words, without baptism, there is no remission of sins.

One of the ways "εἰς" can be rendered is also "because of".

The construction of the verse in Acts 2:38 makes one believe that "εἰς" here has the inferred meaning of "in order to", "with a view to".

You must be baptized "in order to" have remission of sins.

That simply isn't true.

We have "εἰς" in Mt. 12:41 rendered "at", or a better rendering would have been "because of".

Ask yourself this question:

Did the people of Nineveh repent "εἰς-in order to" get Jonah to preach?

Or, did the people of Nineveh repent "εἰς-because of" the preaching of Jonah?

History and scriptures both prove it to be the latter.

Acts 2:38 should have been rendered:

"Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ because of the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost."

We are baptized because of the command of Jesus.

"Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you:" -Mt. 28:19-20 (KJV)

However, there is no scripture that says that if you are not baptized you are not saved, neither are you condenmed.

That would have to take a major rewrite of the most beloved piece of scripture of all time.

"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him and is baptized should not perish, but have everlasting life." (italized words mine)

You do not get baptized "in order to" be saved, you do not get baptized "in order to" have remission of sins, you get baptized in obedience to the command of Jesus.

That's a rather tenuous argument from silence.

Brother, you know I have always enjoyed reading all your responses and have learned a lot from you, but in this instance, I'm afraid I have to disagree with you.

If baptism is such a major part in our salvation process, then why is the Apostle Paul the only recorded Apostle to have received baptism?

Phillip baptized the Ethopian, however, who baptized Phillip?

Who baptized Stephen?

Who baptized the disciples?

Even those who were baptized by John the Baptist had to be re-baptized. (cf. Acts 19:1-5)

Show me where I have to be baptized "in order to" with a view to" be saved, or have the remission of sins.

I'm sorry, but I just don't see it, neither do I believe it.

God Bless

Till all are one.

 

[heymikey80]

Baptism is a sign of faith. The commands concerning it are generally associated with repentance and faith, and it's what a person does to indicate and involve himself in the covenant of faith with God.

Baptism is a sign of faith. But a sign isn't simply a symbol. When you sign for a covenant, you commit yourself. We sign contracts, and we're legally committed. We sign covenants, and we're fully committed.

Baptism is a sign of faith. But it's not the only sign of faith in the Bible. There's another sign of faith that was used to initiate another covenant of faith: the covenant with Abraham, our father in faith.

We don't have a huge number of instructions or events involving the sign of faith of the New Covenant. However, there is another sign of faith that can be used to see what's reasonable or practical in God's handling of signs of faith in general.

Romans 4:6ff describes how that sign of faith worked in the covenant with Abraham: a covenant which, by the way, we're children of.

What's changed so as to make the new sign of faith more required for salvation than the old?

 

[jmacvols]

There has been much discussion/debate around the subject of Water Baptism and whether or not it is required. For those who say yes, some may ask the question, "Does Water Baptism save you?" As always, I believe it is important to look at the Scriptures. I have one in particular which I believe clearly answers this question. 1 Peter 3:20-21(NIV)italics added- "who disobeyed long ago when God waited patiently in the days of Noah while the ark was being built. In it only a few people, eight in all, were saved through water, and this water symbolizes baptism that now saves you also—not the removal of dirt from the body but the pledge of a good conscience toward God. It saves you by the resurrection of Jesus Christ" I think the verse is very clear. Water Baptism does indeed save us. However, it is not the water passing over our flesh that saves us. It is the pledge, response, affirmation, declaration that we are making when we get baptized. That declaration to repent; to turn from sin, and to turn to Christ. Now some say that you can make that declaration and do every thing that your doing in baptism, without getting baptized. I say, not according to the Bible.

As you pointed out, Peter says baptism doth also now save us and that settles the issue. Water baptism is the means God uses to save for it is at the point of baptism that Christ's blood washes away sins, God cuts away the body of sin. You are correct when you say it is not the water passing over our flesh that saves us. Likewise it was not the water that passed over Naaman's flesh that cleansed him. It is the act of obedience in submitting to baptism that God cuts away the body of sin, Col 2, just as it was Naaman's act of obedience by dipping in the river that his disease was cleansed away by God.

Acts 2:37-38(NIV) "When the people heard this, they were cut to the heart and said to Peter and the other apostles, "Brothers, what shall we do?" Peter replied, "Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit."

Here we see the first time in Christian History where someone asked the question "what should we do?" The first time someone asked how to receive Christ, how to get saved, be Born Again, become a Christian, whatever you want to call it, notice what the response was not. It was not, "with every head bowed, and every eye closed, raise your hand and someone will come pray with you", or "come to the front and meet me at the alter", or "Repeat this 'Sinners Prayer' after me". It was, "Repent, and be Baptized".

Yes, but unfortunately what the bible says goes against the preconceived ideas that some have about salvation, so verses like 1 Pet 3:21 & Acts 2:38 relentlessly get attacked.

 

[Charis kai Dunamis]

This might put things in perspective.

Rom 2:25 For indeed [baptism] is of value if you practice the Law [of faith]; but if you are a transgressor of the Law [of faith], your [baptism] has become [unbaptism].
Rom 2:26 So if the [unbaptised] man keeps the requirements of the Law [of faith], will not his [unbaptism] be regarded as [baptism]?
Rom 2:27 And he who is physically [unbaptised], if he keeps the Law of faith, will he not judge you who though having the letter of the Law [of faith] and [baptism] are a transgressor of the Law [of faith]?
Rom 2:28 For he is not a [Christian] who is one outwardly, nor is [baptism] that which is outward in the flesh.
Rom 2:29 But he is a [Christian] who is one inwardly; and [baptism] is that which is of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the letter; and his praise is not from men, but from God.

It's not a perfect parallel, but the principle undoubtedly carries over.

 

[DeaconDean]

Let me ask this, if baptism is soooooooooooo necessary, if baptism is a sign of faith, if baptism is a sign or signature of a contract or covenant between us and he Lord, what happens to the person who comes to church on a certain day, feels the influence of the Holy Spirit, comes forward, by faith repents and accepts Jesus, then after church, on the way home, dies in a car crash.

Because they haven't been baptized, then technically, with soooooooooooooooooo much emphasis being placed on the importance of baptism, they aren't saved.

Why you ask?

Because they haven't given the sign of their faith.

Because they haven't entered into the contract/covenant as of yet.

The fact is, when a person kneels, confesses, repents, believes, and accepts Jesus Christ as the promised Messiah, as the Son of the Living God, they are saved.

Baptism cannot add to nor take away from that fact.

My kneeling, confessing, repenting, accepting, are all signs that I have already entered into that "better covenant established on better promises".

According to Paul:

"Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection: Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin." -Rom. 6:3-6 (KJV)

Donald G. Barnhouse made this passage of scripture so plain to me saying (to paraphrase): Christ's death on the cross, was my death. His burial was my burial, His resurrection was my resurrection.

Does it save?

No.

Is it necessary?

Yes and no.

Yes because it is obedience to the command He gave the disciples, and no that its not an essential part of salvation.

Of Baptism and the Lord's Supper

We believe that Christian Baptism is the immersion in water of a believer (72), into the name of the Father, and Son, and Holy Ghost (73); to show forth, in a solemn and beautiful emblem, our faith in the crucified, buried, and risen Saviour, with its effect in our death to sin and resurrection to a new life (74); that it is prerequisite to the privileges of a Church relation; and to the Lord's Supper (75), in which the members of the Church, by the sacred use of bread and wine, are to commemorate together the dying love of Christ (76); preceded always by solemn self-examination (77).

72. Acts 8:36-39; Matt. 3:5-6; John 3:22-23; 4:1-2; Matt. 28:19; Acts 2:38; 8:12; 16:32-34; 18:8
73. Matt. 28:19; Acts 10:47-48; Gal. 3:27-28
74. Rom. 6:4; Col. 2:12; 1 Pet. 3:20-21; Acts 22:16
75. Acts 2:41-42; Matt. 28:19-20; Acts and Epistles
76. 1 Cor. 11:26; Matt. 26:26-29; Mark 14:22-25; Luke 22:14-20
77. 1 Cor. 11:28; 5:1, 8; 10:3-32; 11:17-32; John 6:26-71

The New Hampshire Confession of Faith of 1833, Section 14, Of Baptism and the Lord's Supper​

The New Hampshire Confession of Faith | The Reformed Reader​

That is what I believe, (according to my Baptist beliefs) and that is what I stand by.​

God Bless​

Till all are one.​

 

[jmacvols]

Baptism is commanded, this reason alone would make it essential for not obeying the Lord's commands is disobedience/sin and no verse says one is saved while in disobedience. The Lord saves those that obey, Heb 5:9.

But along with being a command, baptism is for the remission of sins, it is where one puts on Christ, walks in newness of life.
God determines what is necessary to be saved, not man's unusual circumstances or creeds.

 

[Charis kai Dunamis]

Baptism is commanded, this reason alone would make it essential for not obeying the Lord's commands is disobedience/sin and no verse says one is saved while in disobedience. The Lord saves those that obey, Heb 5:9.

So could a Jew have been saved if he wasn't circumcised? Is that not what Paul says in Romans 2?

 

[nobdysfool]

We are saved by Grace through Faith. Obedience flows from Faith, but we are not saved by obedience. Baptism is an act of contrition and identification, but getting wet does not remit your sins, nor is it when one actually puts on Christ. Those happen at the point of faith in Christ. Baptism is an outward sign of an already-existing reality.

 

[Hentenza]

Yes.



No.

That would be a bit of a contradiction, don't you think? If you say that Baptism saves then why is it not required?

 

[jmacvols]

So could a Jew have been saved if he wasn't circumcised? Is that not what Paul says in Romans 2?

No.

 

[jmacvols]

Eph 2:8-----faith>>>>>>>>>>>>saves
1Pet3:21---baptism>>>>>>>>>>saves

Since there is but only one way to be saved, no alternatives, and the bible does not contradict itself, then a saving faith must include baptism.