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darby8 · Feb 13, 2004

Miss Shelby said:
Killing a baby is wrong. It is a sin. The Church teaches that people will be judged according to their knowledge by God, but it does not change the fact that certain things are sinful.

Michelle

If a crazy person kills his baby, I say it is not a sin. This person is doing something wrong, but he doen't know better. He's crazy, mentally incompetent, etc.

Try this: A 3 year old kid pushes his baby brother down the steps for fun, killing him. The act is wrong. The 3 year old intended to push his baby brother down the steps. The 3 year old didn't know that pushing his baby brother down the steps was wrong. He's only 3 years old. He doesn't know any better.

darby8 · Feb 13, 2004

Let's put this in proper context. The subject is homsexuality, right?

I'm arguing that if the person doesn't know that homosexuality is wrong, then it sin't a sin. Sounds ludicrous! It's true.

Let's say this person is then informed that it is indeed wrong. Now he knows it is wrong. He may not accept it. But nonetheless it IS wrong and he has been informed. If he continues in this act, which is wrong and he knows it is wrong, then it is a sin.

There is a flaw: "he's doesn't believe it is wrong" vs. "he's been told it is wrong". I could be wrong, but if he truly doesn't believe it is wrong, then it isn't a sin. In his eyes, it isn't wrong. In his eyes, it isn't wrong. It shouldn't be a sin. But does he know better? He's been told it is a sin.

What do you think? Because now I'm not too sure either way. (Way to go, Darby!)

Dominus Fidelis · Feb 13, 2004

Ignorance of the law is not an excuse for breaking it, but the punishment may be less.

darby8 · Feb 13, 2004

Defens0rFidei said:
Ignorance of the law is not an excuse for breaking it, but the punishment may be less.

So you believe the 3 year old should be punished by God for killing his brother?

Dominus Fidelis · Feb 13, 2004

darby8 said:
So you believe the 3 year old should be punished by God for killing his brother?

Nope, the child must be in the age of reason, which is 12, I believe.

darby8 · Feb 13, 2004

I often wonder about the 9-11 terrorists. In their minds, they were doing God's Will. Did they sin, then? I offer that they did not. Sound quite twisted, doesn't it?

Dominus Fidelis · Feb 13, 2004

darby8 said:
I often wonder about the 9-11 terrorists. In their minds, they were doing God's Will. Did they sin, then? I offer that they did not. Sound quite twisted, doesn't it?

Satan is a liar. He tries to deceive. When he gets his hooks into someone and influences them to sin, its still a sin. Thats how he works.

jons911 · Feb 13, 2004

darby8 -

Do you believe people who have no access to the Word of God (not living in sin, as they don't know it is wrong; hence "perfect" and "without sin"; further, if they are "perfect" Jesus didn't die for them) will be in heaven?

darby8 · Feb 13, 2004

Defens0rFidei said:
Nope, the child must be in the age of reason, which is 12, I believe.

I argue that it would fall under the category I stated above "did not know it was wrong".

-

So there it is: We need to find out if the criteria is "did not know it was wrong" or "did not believe it was wrong". Gosh, here come the philosophers.

Define "know". Define "belief".

If you tell a homosexual that homosexuality is wrong and he doesn't agree with you, then does he know it is wrong? That's the real question. If the answer is YES, then it is a sin.

Amandine · Feb 13, 2004

Sins are sins regardless of what one believes. The culpability for the action depends on if you believe it's a sin. (Official Catholics, feel free to correct me if I'm wrong on this stance)
-Catherine

darby8 · Feb 13, 2004

jons911 said:
darby8 -

Do you believe people who have no access to the Word of God (not iving in sin, as they don't know it is wrong; hence "perfect") will be in heaven?

I really don't know. But Catholics believe in a place called Limbo. If an innocent dies before being Baptized they go there since they haven't been saved, since they don't "deserve" Hell. Good people who died before Jesus came to save us didn't go to Heaven until He died (hence, He descended into hell). They were in Abraham's Bosom / Limbo to wait the coming.

It's all up to God in the end. That's the easy answer.

Miss Shelby · Feb 13, 2004

cbrickell said:
Sins are sins regardless of what one believes.

Yes.

The culpability for the action depends on if you believe it's a sin. (Official Catholics, feel free to correct me if I'm wrong on this stance)
-Catherine

The culpability of the sin depends on what God decides for each individual, since he and he alone knows the heart. I wouldn't phrase it 'it's not a sin if one doesn't believe it's as sin', though.

Michelle

ukok · Feb 13, 2004

darby8 said:
It's all up to God in the end. That's the easy answer.

and it's also the only answer that matters.

darby8 · Feb 13, 2004

Miss Shelby said:
Yes.The culpability of the sin depends on what God decides for each individual, since he and he alone knows the heart. I wouldn't phrase it 'it's not a sin if one doesn't believe it's as sin', though.

Michelle

Sounds good to me. I really haven't thought that deeply since high school!

jons911 · Feb 13, 2004

ukok said:
and it's also the only answer that matters.

Isn't the end too late?

KennySe · Feb 13, 2004

Returning to the OP.

I find it disturbing that on that thread "touchy feely rosey" scriptures were posted and encouraged... but not scriptures that adressed the specific topic of homosexuality. It is this "do what makes you feel good" mentality that really really irks me, moreso when it is Christians who "pick and choose" which scriptures they like to follow, and which scriptures they will choose to ignore because those don't give that warm fuzzy feel.

Also, when a Christian speaks of moving in with a lover; there is seemingly no mention allowed by another Christian about pre-marital sex nor of scriptures.

The way I read that thread, it is as if speaking up for the consequences of one's actions, which go against scriptures, was considered flaming.

ukok · Feb 13, 2004

jons911 said:
Isn't the end too late?

that was not what i meant.

what i mean to say is that ultimately the only judge is God. We should always bear this in mind, it matters not what we are led to believe by the opinions of others. when it comes to it, it's just us and Him.

Miss Shelby · Feb 13, 2004

darby8 said:
Sounds good to me. I really haven't thought that deeply since high school!

Well when you start phrasing things like 'it's only a sin if one believes it's a sin' kinda leaves the door wide open to interpretation, doesn't it?

Michelle

Christy4Christ · Feb 13, 2004

Well I am sure I am going to get alot of heat because I posted there and I didn't condone anything, infact I told them that I am afraid for them.

KennySe · Feb 13, 2004

So as not to incite a flamewar within ChristianForums, I suggest we NOT go post on that thread. Our "sudden" appearance might be perceived as an invasion.

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